*A:M User* Roger Posted November 24, 2013 *A:M User* Share Posted November 24, 2013 Did anyone else watch it already? I really liked it, but after thinking about it, something really bugs me. ****spoilers below ******** The whole episode revolves around the Doctor's guilt for the genocidal actions of one of his previous incarnations (the John Hurt Doctor). He has yet to set off the doomsday weapon that destroys Gallifrey, but the other two Doctors (multi Doctor episode) don't know that. They manage to figure out a way to avoid this by putting all of Gallifrey in a pocket universe, however due to changes in the timeline or something, they won't remember they actually saved it. I was ok up until I remembered the End of Time episodes, where the Gallifrean High Council is plotting to come back via a link with The Master. The David Tenant Doctor witnesses all this, and the planet Gallifrey is shown popping into existince right next to Earth. So, if this is the case, how can he feel guilty about destroying the planet if he never actually did so? An otherwise excellent episode, but I can't figure out how to reconcile this logical inconsistency. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted November 24, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted November 24, 2013 Is it something someone who only saw 90 seconds of Doctor Who in the 70's would enjoy? I get the sense that one must have followed it quite closely over the years to follow it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildsided Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 The way I see it is that they all forgot (with the exception of 11) that they did the whole move Gallifrey to a pocket dimension thing. So because Gallifrey isn't there any more the doctors following the war doctor 9 and 10 (and 11 until later) would assume that they activated the moment and destroyed Gallifrey. I.E they remember having the moment and they know the planet is gone so in this case 2+2 makes 5. As for the end of time, Rassilon plants the drum beat into the masters head at the same time as the doctors are about to move the planet. All the events of the end of time take place (The 10th doctor still not knowing exactly what happened). Ten destroys the white point star, sending gallifrey back to its proper place in space as though it never moved, just in time for the doctors to move it to the pocket universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted November 24, 2013 Author *A:M User* Share Posted November 24, 2013 I think you would enjoy it, but it is one of those things you'd enjoy more if you have at least seen more of the new series. You don't have to have followed religiously since the very early days of the old show with William Hartnell but you would definitely enjoy more of the "fanservice" that the writers put in if you were a more regular viewer. But yes, the episode does stand on its own without necessarily having seen all the others. Most of Doctor Who tends to be that way, due to the nature of the show. Give it a whirl and see what you think. Might convert you to a fan. If you would like a recommendation of episodes that explain a bit more of what is going on in the 50th anniversary, I can give you a list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted November 24, 2013 Author *A:M User* Share Posted November 24, 2013 The way I see it is that they all forgot (with the exception of 11) that they did the whole move Gallifrey to a pocket dimension thing. So because Gallifrey isn't there any more the doctors following the war doctor 9 and 10 (and 11 until later) would assume that they activated the moment and destroyed Gallifrey. I.E they remember having the moment and they know the planet is gone so in this case 2+2 makes 5. As for the end of time, Rassilon plants the drum beat into the masters head at the same time as the doctors are about to move the planet. All the events of the end of time take place (The 10th doctor still not knowing exactly what happened). Ten destroys the white point star, sending gallifrey back to its proper place in space as though it never moved, just in time for the doctors to move it to the pocket universe. Ok, so the events of End of Time are taking place right at the end of the TIme War, but before the planet is moved/destroyed? I suppose that makes sense but doesn't explain the 10th Doctor's amnesia later on. Geez this time travel stuff is tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted November 24, 2013 Author *A:M User* Share Posted November 24, 2013 If you're interested, Robcat, here are some episodes which either give some background or exposition on the Time War or are good standalone episodes: Genesis of the Daleks Dalek Bad Wolf / Parting of the Ways The Stolen Earth / Journey's End End of Time parts 1 and 2 Blink (introduces the Weeping Angels and has nothing to do with the Time War but is excellent on its own) The Doctor's Wife (also a good standalone episode) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJ'd Beast Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Is it something someone who only saw 90 seconds of Doctor Who in the 70's would enjoy? I get the sense that one must have followed it quite closely over the years to follow it now. Rob, It's a two hour mini movie and although you would miss out on certain aspects I was able to watch the whole thing with my wife, who watches regularly, and enjoy it. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largento Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I was lucky enough to find out about it in time to get tickets for the simulcast at a theater here in Dallas, so I got to see it on the big screen in 3D with a theater full of Who fans. The lack of memory is a because it has to be sort of thing. I think the excuse is because time is in flux. i.e. Once it's no longer in flux, these memories won't be written. Some of it has to be there, because The 11th slightly remembers the initial encounter from the 10th's POV. It was great seeing the episode in 3D. The 3D paintings really don't have any impact in 2D. Also, there's a sense of being "in it" more with 3D. The bits with Queen Elizabeth the first were great, especially since they've been teasing stuff about her for years. The episode might be fun for someone with a mild knowledge of the show, but I think it would be more frustrating, since there would be so many questions about what was going on and what it had to do with anything. I did get a bit frustrated with some of the younger Who fans at the theater. I overheard a 20-something guy telling his girlfriend that he had thought the show was stupid (upon seeing a David Tennant episode), but seeing the Matt Smith show had changed his mind. He said something to the effect of, "obviously, it was a TV show that failed before." How he can consider a show that ran for 26 years a failure made me shake my head. Then, on the way out, two guys were talking and saying how they didn't know that was Tom Baker and had to have it told to them in the "behind the scenes" special they showed after the episode. How can you be a Doctor Who fan and not recognize Tom Baker? His voice alone is instantly recognizable. Then I watched a "post" show that YouTube did with Veronica Belmont hosting and the panel seemed to be incredibly unaware of the earlier Who. To the point that they referred to the saving of Gallifrey as changing the whole premise of the show. They seemed to think The Doctor had always been the last of the Timelords. To me, I always had trouble reconciling that claim that the Doctor had wiped them all out. It wasn't in the Doctor's DNA to do that. Even trying to put it under the guise of a "war" Doctor. The Doctor is always the Doctor. His body and face might change, but he's still the same guy. So, I found it incredibly satisfying that it turns out he only thought he had done it. It leaves what they did with the earlier episodes intact, but wipes the slate clean for the new Doctor to be like the old Doctors. Free of that guilt and angst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largento Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Ha! I just rewatched a bit of TDOFT and the whole End of Time thing is acknowledged. When we first enter the War Council, one of the Gallifreyans says something about the High Council still being locked in session and that they have their own plan. The General (?) dismisses this, saying their plans had already failed. So, there's how End of Time works in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted November 24, 2013 Author *A:M User* Share Posted November 24, 2013 Ha! I just rewatched a bit of TDOFT and the whole End of Time thing is acknowledged. When we first enter the War Council, one of the Gallifreyans says something about the High Council still being locked in session and that they have their own plan. The General (?) dismisses this, saying their plans had already failed. So, there's how End of Time works in. Oh, ok I must have missed that bit. I really, really wish I had known they were going to be showing it in theaters, I would have maybe made a trek to go see it. I'm not sure where in my area it would have been, I hit Fandango looking for it and couldn't find it. If it wasn't just a one day thing I might try and see if I can still catch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largento Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 They are doing it again tomorrow: Here's a link to all the theaters that are showing it on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted November 24, 2013 Hash Fellow Share Posted November 24, 2013 I really, really wish I had known they were going to be showing it in theaters, I would have maybe made a trek to go see it. I'm not sure where in my area it would have been, I hit Fandango looking for it and couldn't find it. If it wasn't just a one day thing I might try and see if I can still catch it. I'm looking at Fandango and it has it for "November 25th only", tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted November 25, 2013 Author *A:M User* Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'm trying to decided how badly I want to go see this. Is it really that much better in 3D? I've already seen it twice, I'm not sure it will bear up to a 3rd viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largento Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I did think it worked better in 3D, but it was a better deal for me getting to see it that way first. If you're not excited about it, then you probably shouldn't spend the dough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted November 25, 2013 Author *A:M User* Share Posted November 25, 2013 I think if I hadn't seen it at all yet, it would be an easier decision to make. If I was going to see it for the first time I think it would be a no-brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted November 26, 2013 Author *A:M User* Share Posted November 26, 2013 Well, just got back from the late show. I'm glad I went to see it, the making of stuff and the 3D was kind of neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largento Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Hahaha. Couldn't resist it, eh? I was talking to a friend who went to the early show and we both agreed that seeing it on the big screen in 3D was the best way to watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted November 26, 2013 Author *A:M User* Share Posted November 26, 2013 Hahaha. Couldn't resist it, eh? I was talking to a friend who went to the early show and we both agreed that seeing it on the big screen in 3D was the best way to watch it. Nope, I couldn't I figured even if I had seen it already, when am I ever going to get the chance to see it that way again? So I went, and the pre-show and "making of" stuff, along with seeing the battle scenes in 3D, made it worth it. When in the heck did a 32 oz drink become a "small" drink, though? I think I may have posted about that before but geez, it is starting to get really out of hand. At this rate I fully expect to see them marketing a 128 oz "super diabetes size" along with a trough of popcorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.