Rigging

[NancyGormezano]

The problem I ran into with the LiteRig is that I had to add a bunch of extra bones just so the install process could automatically place the control bones in the correct positions and add the constraints/relationships without user intervention. I believe anything which adds an "automation" layer to a manual process will complicate the resulting product significantly. I have the same issues as Nancy regarding analysis, customization and modification of INSTALL rigs.

 

If the installation bones have "INSTALL" in their name, you can run the InstallRig plugin to have them cleaned out.

 

I am going to guess that the bones Holmes is talking about are the dummy "placer bones" that he put in the liteRIG, liteFACE that are attached at the end of another bone and are only used to act as a target to get some other bone or null to "translate to the end of a bone" rather than to the start of a bone. The way things stand now, he would want to leave these bones in, in the event one did further tweaking and the control bones and geometry bones got out of alignment. Those dummy placer bones are the extraneous bones that sometimes get keyed unnecessarily in the literig.

 

That is why I thought it would be helpful to have a realtime function that one could right click on bone and choose "translate to end of bone" with a picker that could be used in bones mode (to add in positioning of bones), as well as maybe as an added constraint type. Then one wouldn't need these dummy bones.

[robcat2075]

Those dummy placer bones are the extraneous bones that sometimes get keyed unnecessarily in the literig.

 

 

btw... you can make a selection filter of these unwanted bones so they are easy to delete in one swoop if they get keyed without having to hunt them down in the full list of bones in the chor.

[NancyGormezano]

Those dummy placer bones are the extraneous bones that sometimes get keyed unnecessarily in the literig.

 

 

btw... you can make a selection filter of these unwanted bones so they are easy to delete in one swoop if they get keyed without having to hunt them down in the full list of bones in the chor.

 

Yeah yeah. And they come back again and again. Sometimes it's just better to ignore them. Most everything has a workaround, that I've used and I've lived with it.

 

I've never put in a feature request for anything, ever. I would be willing to pay a subscription fee for things to NOT change, as I hate when new features inevitably cause old features to break.

[robcat2075]

The keying happens because they are part of a constraint that is getting switched on or off, typically the IK/FK switch.

 

I recommend getting rid of them it's fast and easy. Sometimes they cause trouble.

[NancyGormezano]

The keying happens because they are part of a constraint that is getting switched on or off, typically the IK/FK switch.

 

I recommend getting rid of them it's fast and easy. Sometimes they cause trouble.

 

These dummy placer bones (in literig only) have nothing to do with any switches, nor IK/FK, nor any active constraints while animating.

 

I am in particular thinking about the face rig placer bones, not sure about shoulder/arm placer bones. They are only useful during the rigging process, when one is using an action to export a model.

 

I have actually deleted them permanently from some parts of my Lothario model/rig, as I don't use the export actions (safer, less confusing to me to position by hand). I just missed a few dummies and they show up when animating. I could delete those permanently as well.

 

But if one wanted to use the export actions then one would want to leave them in.

[mtpeak2]

If INSTALL was added to the names of the placeholder bones in the installation rig, they can be deleted using the "installrig" plugin once you're finished installation.

[NancyGormezano]

If INSTALL was added to the names of the placeholder bones in the installation rig, they can be deleted using the "installrig" plugin once you're finished installation.

 

okee dokie. This is wandering into circular logic land and becoming pretty funny now.

 

I appreciate the suggestions and the intent to find solutions, but I think there is confusion as to which rig, and who's perspective we're talking about. At first I was clarifying for David which extraneous bones Holmes probably was talking about.

 

With Robert, I am talking about MY modified process of installing as well as using MY modfied hybrid literig arms, hands, spine, modified face rig, modified 2008 legs, plus dynamic ears, tails, whiskas concoction.

 

There is no install rig. I have found for the most part that it is easier (translation: less confusing, not necessarily most elegant, efficient) to just drag, drop, import modular components, position the geometry bones, control bones by hand, reedit if necessary affected constraint relationships (zero offsets).

 

The dummy placer bones in my rig are a residual from starting with Holmes rig (post installation in some phamtom model). These placer bones show up attached to the ends of geometry bones, they have no function in my rig at this point. It is easiest for me obviously to just delete them rather than rename them to INSTALL bone and then have a plugin delete them.

 

I do not believe that if one were to use Holmes installation process that he would want to delete these placer bones, as part of the process is to use an export action that has constraints on other bones to "translate to" these placer bones. These constraints are NOT on when animating, they are only used by the export action (not sure about shoulder, arm placement). If you wanted to reuse the export action - you would need these placer bones to remain in the resultant rig.

[robcat2075]

It is always possible to key bones that should not be keyed by using the keyframe filters wrong .

 

Another reason I like the selection filters because they allow me to quickly recover from such a mistake, which I make often.

[mtpeak2]

OK Nancy. I'll keep my 2 cents to myself, since it is no use to you.

[NancyGormezano]

OK Nancy. I'll keep my 2 cents to myself, since it is no use to you.

 

No no, not true - it is of use! I said I appreciate the intent to find solutions.

 

I would love to find a way that simplifies for everyone - I have even tried to concoct some way for me to use INSTALL plugin. I even used it for naming some of my top level bones, but then decided I liked leaving those particular bones in, as it helped me isolate sections in the bone hierarchy, so that it was easier to visually scan. So I never ran the install plugin to remove them.

 

It is always possible to key bones that should not be keyed by using the keyframe filters wrong .

 

Another reason I like the selection filters because they allow me to quickly recover from such a mistake, which I make often.

 

Yes I shy away from keyframe filters, as at one time, it did seem to mess up. I most likely did not use it correctly, or it was at an early stage of development.

 

I have tried again, but then just went along my merry way without using them. With my rig - it's not like there is a billion bones to wade thru - with squetch rig, it would be most decidely very useful.

[NancyGormezano]

I have found problems with exporting from an action after texturing and adding, grooming hair. It didn't always work. Decals get messed, hair looses grooming. I shy away from that now with tweaking already textured, hairified models.

 

If you could make a sample case out of that to study and post it... It would be useful to see.

 

I did just test exporting model from action with decals and hair in ver16b and yes it now works!

 

In 15jplus hair would get messed, and decals (especially noticed if they were cylindrical with a repeat count, did not try all cases) would get messed up.

 

Both problems appear to be fixed. yay!

 

However I find that this same model rigged in 15j plus has some poses that do not work the same in 16b, in particular it has to do with hiding and unhiding nulls. I will try to make a simple case. I had to create a new pose in 16b to get it to work.