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[dllb]

Hi,

I had the 2003 CD version and some plugins but unfortunately I didn't use it much.

Now I started again with animation, so I bought the subscription to have more features (or less bugs).

Currently I'm using (trying to learn) 15.0G because there was a bug with real time rendering in shaded mode with the 15.0H version, so I'm sorry if the following problems have been corrected:

 

1. If I try to customize the toolbars just by adding more toolbars to the window (Tools/Customize/Toolbars), when I press "OK" all changes disappear (my screen resolution is 1920x1200 if that helps).

 

2. While there is enough space on the existing toolbar line for more toolbars (~45% of the horizontal space is free) it isn't possible to place there a toolbar, it creates a new line above the existing one instead (it still disappears after pressing "OK" though).

 

BTW, is there a log with changes for each version to know exactly what I'm missing if I go a few versions backwards? (Hopefully not back to 2003!)

 

Thanks.

[robcat2075]

I was able to add and reposition new menus in 15g.

 

 

So I'm not sure what has gone wrong on your end.

 

 

(my screen resolution is 1920x1200 if that helps).

 

Just to try... un maximize the A:M window and see if it behaves differently. Probably won't

 

 

What happens if you use the "New" button to create a tolbar?

 

 

Last resort... do Help>Reset settings

 

 

You can have V13 installed also... does this happen with V13?

 

BTW, is there a log with changes for each version to know exactly what I'm missing if I go a few versions backwards? (Hopefully not back to 2003!)

 

If you are logged into AMReports there is a "Changelog" link. Here on the forum, changes are announced with each new release in the Latest Info thread

[pixelplucker]

Did you uninstall h first before installing g? The installers won't overwrite newer files with older files so to step back a version you need to uninstall first.

Menu's under g seem to work fine under XP here.

[robcat2075]

By the way... Welcome to the A:M forum!

[robcat2075]

here's the list of changes from v15e thru v15h

 

v15.0 - v15.0 h

===============

- 0005425: [Rendering] exception #10 (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005506: [interface] simple Boolean NOT filter not possible (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005514: [Help File] "Update" in Help menu (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005515: [Cloth] When Subdibisions is 4, Simcloth causes Crash. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005502: [Cloth] I want to set Cloth-Collision-Subdivision . (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005434: [installation (Intel)] Gradient folder missing, not installed (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005122: [interface] [Mac] - Choosing "New Filter" Causes Program Crash (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005505: [interface] Windows7 - Aero On, Group Mode drawing bug is still left. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005491: [Animation] DOF-On,MultiPass-On,MultiShortcut, The first frame becomes abnormal. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005486: [interface] Change default camera resolution when for new chor (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005501: [Cloth] When the project is loaded, Deflector-Subdivisions is set to 4. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005478: [interface] error: RPC server unavailable (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005497: [interface] Feature request: Add selection filter names to bottom of drop down list (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005485: [interface] Render lock keyboard shortcut brings up option dialog (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005488: [Realtime] A strange object remains on choreographie view. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005494: [bones/Rigging] Can't access bones on some models in the Chor (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005432: [interface] channel for last item in PWS dopesheet always hidden (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005498: [interface] Filedialogs should be resizable (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005475: [Animation] Copy-Paste-Mirror not correctly mirroring all necessary bones (sgross) - resolved.

 

v15.0 - v15.0 g

===============

- 0005450: [interface] New Selection Filters not appearing (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005451: [interface] Enhancement to Selection Filters (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005213: [Rendering] Can't render SSS when using Render Mode or Render Lock Mode (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005459: [Modeling] Can't draw new spline along existing spline rings. Undo crashes. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005463: [_Other] "Gradient" choice for plugin shader not properly used on project reload (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005436: [Rendering] No more limits for Radiosity -> Why cant I go over 1.000.000 Photons / 500 samples? (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005473: [Lighting] Light Buffer objects not rendering separate objects (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005442: [Realtime] Bones and Null objects should be colorable too.... and it should work in Chor-Window too (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005417: [Lighting] When an object is added to Choreography, lighting is changed. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005460: [interface] Particle system properties no longer accessible in Chor (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005455: [interface] false rename option appearing for bones (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005454: [interface] "View" buttons not available in Customize>Command Tab (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005435: [interface] Status Line not correctly displaying status text (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005433: [Rendering] Save (render-)settings for a rendering in txt-file / Save Rendersettings in the prj-file (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005423: [Rendering] A:M crashes after outputting AVI. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005419: [Constraints] Attachment/Pin Constraint (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005452: [installation (Intel)] A stub for help files? (sgross) - resolved.

- 0004819: [interface] Right-Click on a feature-button (for example Lathe or Distortionbox) to get to its properties? (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005453: [Plugins] grid plugin always same width and height (sgross) - resolved.

 

v15.0 - v15.0 f

===============

- 0005017: [Animation] Would like to see support for 3dconnexion Space Navigator (animation/modeling) (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005386: [images/Animations/Rotoscopes] When loading project, prop texture information is lost. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005226: [Rendering] surface baking / rendering - cracks appear on patch edges with bump materials (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005312: [images/Animations/Rotoscopes] Translate control box dose not show when the Rootoscope image is shown. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005414: [Modeling] When snapping a group to grid snap the pivot too (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005385: [Decaling] Distorted decals (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005375: [Decaling] Strange artifacts appear where decal is transparent (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005353: [_ Not Selected _] When change constraint target, Compensatemode is always On. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005399: [bones/Rigging] Bones in a model named the same as the model causes problems in the chor (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005398: [Decaling] Decal is only applied to patches which have a certain size on current view (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005389: [Modeling] AI-Wizard and Font-Wizard-Problem -> Using them in a row is creating problems (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005327: [Rendering] Crash on aborting render (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005370: [_ Not Selected _] A:M' AVI output is broken. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005369: [Particle Systems] Feature Request: "Active" button for particle emitters. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005374: [Constraints] Please add Compensate Auto On/Off setteings. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005362: [Decaling] v15e Decal blank area is broken (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005256: [_Other] "Creating decals for prop" operation is very slow (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005144: [_Other] Space Navigator (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005358: [Decaling] Decal Cookiecut alphablending problem (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005355: [_ Not Selected _] Aborting fluids simulation causesA:M to stop responding. (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005354: [Rendering] Rendering stops after a few frames (sgross) - resolved.

- 0004762: [Particle Systems] blobbies and fluid surface properties with default values, are loaded as "not set". (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005052: [Cloth] Reopen: 0005045: SimCloth crashes A:M 14c (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005011: [Cloth] Crash on Simcloth simulate (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005273: [_ Not Selected _] Baked texture has seam (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005295: [Rendering] Displacementmapping: Big Difference between Final- and Preview-Rendering (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005303: [Rendering] A:M crash when rendering radiosity (bumpmap) (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005347: [_Other] Crash, when trying to delete a path (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005341: [Particle Systems] fluid particlesystem is "exploding" under some circumstands (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005340: [Particle Systems] Collision detection fails in some situations for fluid particles (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005339: [Particle Systems] Baking Particles crash, if no particles emitted (sgross) - resolved.

 

v15.0 - v15.0 e

===============

- 0005255: [_Other] Particle feature request... (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005306: [Hair] Can't render dynamic hair when MultiPass is selected (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005298: [Hair] Feature Request...have Hair always default to OFF when render stops (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005332: [Dynamics] Freeze property of second instance of newton explode object doesn't work (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005329: [_Other] "Apply"-Button for Renderingmenu (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005320: [Particle Systems] hair has a different behavior , when a fluid system is used in the same chor (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005319: [Particle Systems] different behavior in final rendering with multipass on (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005288: [bones/Rigging] bone name list too narrow in CP weight editor (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005290: [bones/Rigging] Fatal Crash when deleting a bone (sgross) - resolved.

- 0005384: [Rendering] OpenEXR-Output: Depth-Buffer doesnt work, it is more like an Alpha-buffer - closed.

[dllb]

Just to try... un maximize the A:M window and see if it behaves differently. Probably won't

Last resort... do Help>Reset settings

Those didn't help. I even tried different resolutions.

 

You can have V13 installed also... does this happen with V13?

I tried to install V13, from the folder "V13" on ftp but it was for CD version and required a newer CD.

So I installed V10.5 (the one I had) and the toolbars disappeared again. A minor difference: It was temporary accepted on the same toolbar line (until I hit OK).

 

If you are logged into AMReports there is a "Changelog" link. Here on the forum, vjanges are announced with each new release in the Latest Info thread

Thanks for this, it is pretty useful ! (I made an account there too).

 

What happens if you use the "New" button to create a tolbar?

Fortunately this works! Of course someone has to construct new custom toolbars. I was about to try it but I thought I should post these bugs anyway.

 

Did you uninstall h first before installing g? The installers won't overwrite newer files with older files so to step back a version you need to uninstall first.

Menu's under g seem to work fine under XP here.

Actually, I rolled back to a previous partition image version without any hash software installed -just to be sure.

 

I was able to add and reposition new menus in 15g.

So I'm not sure what has gone wrong on your end.

At sometime while I was trying different things, one new toolbar stayed there, but only one -I wasn't able to add more no matter what. It just passed through a bug's ...hole!

 

BTW, my system is a dual core 6600 @2400, 4GB ram, 8800GTX Windows XP Pro SP3 with all the latest updates installed from Microsoft and Nvidia. Generally a stable system.

I suspect there is some conflict with some newer system files (dlls etc).

 

In general, as a customer I would prefer 10 fold, a stable version vs a version rich in features.

 

Thanks for the responses.

[robcat2075]

Sorry, when you said 2003 I just thought v13 when really it was the v10 you had.

 

Since all your versions have this problem and none of mine do (I have v10.5 installed and it does menus fine also) I'm going to say it's a problem peculiar to your computer and not something the thatt Hash will be able to re enact to study.

 

You can drag individual icons from the commands tab to that new toolbar you created.

 

 

V15 is dramatically more stable than the V10 versions. I recommend it.

 

I only have that V10.5 installed so I can test for differences in the way it handled stuff versus today's versions. It does happen. But I wouldn't' want to go back to v10 full time.

[dllb]

Since all your versions have this problem and none of mine do (I have v10.5 installed and it does menus fine also) I'm going to say it's a problem peculiar to your computer and not something the thatt Hash will be able to re enact to study.

Well, this is just NOT the case!

I just reproduced the exact same problem on two other partitions on the same (multiboot) PC: One with XP Pro 32bit v2002 SP3 and on one with Vista Ultimate 32bit SP1, both fresh-restored from disk images with NO apps (except NOD32 Antivirus and Folder Guard). Both were intended for testing purposes (such as this one). On these partitions I installed the 10.5 version of A:M. (it installed on Vista with no problems!).

 

So this is definitely a bug beyond any doubts -there are no conflicts or anything. Obviously it affects many people.

 

Anyway, this bug is not that important... I just thought I should give a bug feedback, that's all.

 

 

 

Btw, I thought the subscription license was limited on just one computer but when I tried to install it on another partition on the same multiboot computer, I received an error message saying that "this serial number has already been used".

Limiting it on just one partition of one computer vs on just one computer is NOT the same thing!

[robcat2075]

Since all your versions have this problem and none of mine do (I have v10.5 installed and it does menus fine also) I'm going to say it's a problem peculiar to your computer and not something the thatt Hash will be able to re enact to study.

Well, this is just NOT the case!

I just reproduced the exact same problem on two other partitions on the same (multiboot) PC:

 

That doesn't sound like a different computer.

 

 

So this is definitely a bug beyond any doubts -there are no conflicts or anything. Obviously it affects many people.

 

In four years on this forum this is the first I recall this coming up. It's probably not "many" people. All those different versions over four years... it would have come up.

 

But since you can repeat it on your PC, I'd suggest making a screencam movie of it happening and submit it as an AMReport. I can't guarantee it will get fixed since they implemented that feature a long time ago and it's been working for them and us and all that ever since. When they get the bug report and try the new menu thing and it works fine... what is the next step from there? How do you fix a bug you can't make happen?

 

 

 

Another thing you might try is to in the gray between buttons and use this menu to turn on a toollbar menu

 

 

 

 

This dockable menus stuff is really a functionality of Windows' bag of tricks. A:M is one of the few programs that enables as many of the possibilities as it does. I was trying to think of another program you might test that takes it this far. Macromedia Freehand is the only other one I have that does. Sadly, its menus work just fine for me also.

 

 

 

Btw, I thought the subscription license was limited on just one computer but when I tried to install it on another partition on the same multiboot computer, I received an error message saying that "this serial number has already been used".

 

Copy the master.lic file from your old install to your new one. I have multiple versions of v15 installed but all in the same partition. I don't know if the partition thing is the issue. I know Mac user have to have a separate license if they want to run A:M on their PC emulator.

[pixelplucker]

Adding tools and dragging the end one can sometimes cause the File menu to drop in the middle and the others below. I have noticed this but only had fiddled with it the one or 2 times I completely changed or reinstalled AM.

 

Simply drag the file menu back to the top and then from left to right, drag the others back up below that and they all should fit. Make sure you have atleast one window open such as model, chor or action.

[HomeSlice]

Btw, I thought the subscription license was limited on just one computer but when I tried to install it on another partition on the same multiboot computer, I received an error message saying that "this serial number has already been used".

Limiting it on just one partition of one computer vs on just one computer is NOT the same thing!

You could ask support@hash.com about that. The best way to get a useful response from Hash is to be nice to them

[pixelplucker]

Subscription is limited to one system but I think the way it works if you make changes to your system you would have to tell them so they can reauthorize it.

Personally I like the cd, if I want I can plop it on another machine and run it. Of course that means I have to actually get out of my chair and go to another computer, but at least I have that option.

[Eric2575]

I change stuff in my system all the time, drives, video cards, etc. Running into the same problem of "this serial number..." whenever I made changes got old, so I contacted support. They were able to bind the Hash subscription to my machine, no matter how much I changed the components. I don't remember the walkthrough, but contact support and they will help you.

[mtpeak2]

Hash inc will no longer fix a bug in v10.5. If you have the same issue in v15, then they will fix it. So, if you are having issues with 10.5, I'm sorry to say you're out of luck.

[pixelplucker]

Subscription based software looks at the current system configuration. All software protection software that is authorized to a single seat works the same basic way and would have to be re-authorized if changes are made. Other companies that use similar systems have the same issues such as Corel and Adobe. Unfortunately the only other way to protect the software is either the CD which acts like a dongle or a physical dongle.

 

Hash is really good if you make changes to your system and need to re-authorize your software. I had some issues with another company and heard of pure nightmares others have had with other companies.

[dllb]

Subscription based software looks at the current system configuration. All software protection software that is authorized to a single seat works the same basic way and would have to be re-authorized if changes are made. Other companies that use similar systems have the same issues such as Corel and Adobe. Unfortunately the only other way to protect the software is either the CD which acts like a dongle or a physical dongle.

 

Hash is really good if you make changes to your system and need to re-authorize your software. I had some issues with another company and heard of pure nightmares others have had with other companies.

There are plenty of available data to be based on, to isolate and identify a specific computer. And there is NO reason to restrict its use on just one partition. As you say there are many issues with many companies with similar policies (personally I have encountered too many issues in the past, that's why I'm a bit more sensitive on the subject) but also there are a few companies with the right customer-friendly policy. Guess which of them I respect more. Customer-company is a relationship which as all healthy relationships, should be based on trust.

 

That doesn't sound like a different computer.

Then, you might be pleased to hear that today I actually managed to find and test it on a "different" computer (on my brother's PC on the upper floor)!

 

 

All tests together to get the big picture:

_____________________________________________

 

Computer #1: (Multiboot)

 

Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 @ 2.4 GHZ Asus Motherboard ASUS P5N32-E SLI, Asus VGA 8800 GTX

4GB RAM

 

Tested with CD v10.5 and web 15.0G:

Partition C: XP Pro 32bit Service pack 3 Main working full of apps -latest updates

 

Tested wigh A:M CD v10.5:

Partition D: XP Pro 32bit Service pack 3 almost empty - updates a few months old

Partition F: XP Pro 32bit Ultimate Service pack 1 almost empty - updates a few months old

_____________________________________________

 

Computer #2: (Multiboot)

 

Tested wigh A:M CD v10.5:

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.0 GHZ Motherboard GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R 4GB RAM

 

Partition C: XP Pro 32bit Service pack 3 Main working full of apps - updates a few months old

 

_____________________________________________

 

Conclusions:

1. in my registered partition (computer #1), web v15.0G behaves similar to cd v10.5

So this bug exists at least from v10.5 - no need to test specifically v15.0 on other partitions or computers.

(it can't work in another part. or PC anyway -I also tried to copy the *.lic file on another partition as it was suggested)

 

2. Now since this toolbar-disappearing-behaviour was verified in different OSes and in different computers while on yours it cannot be reproduced, we are left with two possibilities:

 

a] It might be a multi-core issue (if it cannot be reproduced in single-core PCs like robcat2075's PC). So it might "became" a bug after the appearance of dual core computers.

b] You might have missed it (as I found a while ago)

So to reproduce it:

- Start A:M v15.0G, go to Help/Reset settings, exit.

- Restart, go to Tools/Customize/Toolbars,

- Select "Modeling", leave it or drag it to the upper bar and press OK. It should disappear.

 

I found out that adding "Views" and "Draw" is working, but NOT adding "Modeling" and the rest toolbars bellow it!

 

If you don't want to reset A:M, just try it as is.

 

 

Bottom line:

That was too much fuzzle for that simple bug, (I'm not even a beta-tester!) and more than enough to attract the attention of developer(s)...

[mtpeak2]

THIS IS NOT A BUG!

 

There is no reason for the modeling tool bar to be active if you are NOT in modeling mode. When in modeling mode the tool bar should be already available to the right of your screen.

 

[EDIT] all the other toolbars that are below the modeling toolbar are specific to different situation, like bones mode, distort mode. These toolbars show up automaticly when you are in to right mode.

 

BOTTOM LINE: Learn how to use the software and read the manual.

[dllb]

There are 8 more available (except draw and views that can be added).

If there is no reason to add any of them, then why they are available in that customizing function?

[mtpeak2]

Because you can turn OFF/HIDE them while in the correct mode. You will need a way to turn them back ON.

[robcat2075]

I found out that adding "Views" and "Draw" is working, but NOT adding "Modeling" and the rest toolbars bellow it!

 

If you don't want to reset A:M, just try it as is.

 

Aha! This is quite different than not being able to add a menu at all as originally stated.

 

A:M menus are "context aware", meaning they only appear when they are usable. The Modeling Tools can only be visible when actual model editing can be done: When a model window is the currently selected window (most common) OR when you have selected a model in a chor window and have turned on Modeling Mode (rarer).

 

This reduces visual clutter in the interface and prevents trying to invoke, say, the Lathe Tool while animating character bones in the chor.

 

Similar circumstances for other toolsets such as Bones which are only available when editing a model in Bones Mode.

 

Some Toolbars such as "Views" make sense in almost any context and can be visible in almost any context. Also A toolbar may be visible but certain buttons grayed out if they are not usable inteh current circumstances.

 

 

 

 

Bottom line:

That was too much fuzzle for that simple bug, (I'm not even a beta-tester!) and more than enough to attract the attention of developer(s)...

 

Bottom line, not a bug. This is standard Windows interface functionality.

[HomeSlice]

I just fired up A:M. Didn't have any windows open. Added Modeling, Drawing and Views toolbars to the interface from the Customize > Toolbars menu , hit OK and they are still there. So for whatever reason, I can't reproduce the issue. It works just fine on my system.

 

WinXP SP3 AMD 6400+ X2 3.2GHz dual core

4Gb Ram

Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H mobo

ATI Radeon 4850 graphics

[mtpeak2]

Holmes, as soon as you open a window, they disappear. The way it should be.

[robcat2075]

Fun Fact: A:M was the very first 3D program to run on Windows.

 

 

 

I just fired up A:M. Didn't have any windows open. Added Modeling, Drawing and Views toolbars to the interface from the Customize > Toolbars menu , hit OK and they are still there. So for whatever reason, I can't reproduce the issue. It works just fine on my system.

 

Notice that every button (except the file buttons) will be greyed out when you close the Customize window (because there's nothing to do with them)

 

 

 

 

and that when you open a Chor window the Modeling tools and most other non-pertinent tools will rehide themselves.

[dllb]

Aha! This is quite different than not being able to add a menu at all as originally stated.

Why different? I was trying randomly the lower ones. Also, later I did mention that at some point one toolbar did stay on the menu.

 

A:M menus are "context aware"...

I know that, it's a good concept. Sometimes though, when I have enough space available I usually prefer the controls in absolute fix positions (like an ...aircraft cockpit !)

 

Bottom line, not a bug. This is standard Windows interface functionality.

Bottom Line final version:

If the toolbars can be added at some computers and at some others cannot, on the same software version, then it is definitely a programming bug (verified by your screenshot and my tests and mtpeak2's).

 

 

P.S.

The few days I'm here, I find that this forum is indeed awesome, a little gold mine with lots of resources, tutorials and help in general... which I consider a big plus of course!

[robcat2075]

BTW, Dllb,welcome to the A:M forum!

 

A:M has powers far beyond what its price would suggest; if you find anything else that doesn't seem to make sense, this forum is the place to ask!

 

With enough info someone will have an answer.

[robcat2075]

Bottom line final version: If the toolbars can be added at some computers and at some others cannot, on the same software version, then it is definitely a programming bug (verified by your screenshot and my tests and mtpeak2's).

 

Show us your screencam movie of it acting differently than the functionality I described.

[mtpeak2]

The reason they disappear is the fact that the current window you are using, you CAN NOT use those tools. NOT A BUG, PERIOD!

 

If the toolbars can be added at some computers and at some others cannot, on the same software version, then it is definitely a programming bug (verified by your screenshot and my tests and mtpeak2's).

Those toolbars were added with NO window open. Once a window is open, they disappeared because they were not needed. STILL NOT A BUG!

 

Show me screen grabs that show the same window open, on different computers, that you can place the same toolbar on one, but not the other. I never heard of anyone ever having this problem.

[HomeSlice]

Holmes, as soon as you open a window, they disappear. The way it should be.

oops. Yup, you are correct sir. As soon as I open an Action or Chor window, the Modeling Toolbar goes away .... as it should.

[dllb]

BTW, Dllb,welcome to the A:M forum!

 

Thanx robcat2075!

(sorry, I didn't notice your previous welcome!)

[dllb]

After your later posts... now everything is cleared up - I can't believe it!

There were too many misunderstandings and different behaviors, because I was starting A:M always after doing a "Reset settings" where A:M by default starts with "New Project" AND choreography, (so the toolbars disappear after clicking OK)...

...while some of you were starting it with "New project" but with an empty window! If I start it like that and THEN i try to add toolbars, A:M on my computer behaves exactly as yours (the toolbars are retained after clicking OK - and disappear after opening choreography)!

 

 

Now the questions is... how we managed to get lost in that ...Odyssey of tests and posts?

 

Short answer: We were too stupid ...(No, not exactly)

 

Long answer:

1. We were confused partially because our initial conditions were not identical so we saw different behavior. I understand, most of you didn't want to reset A:M and lose your settings.

2. I was confused because...

Here is my user experience: I wanted to customize the toolbars. In fact, all I wanted (since my screen res is high enough) was to place most of the available toolbars in fix, always visible positions (that's me).

So after I did a "reset settings" I started the "Customize/Toolbars" dialog. There were 2 + 8 more toolbars, available for me to click and select. I selected the 8 lower ones as a test. They were selected indeed and they appeared on the window. I customized their placement on the menu and when I was almost happy with the result, I clicked "OK" supposedly to make my changes permanent. But then, all of the sudden, changes were lost!

 

So I was confused because I was given a choice and when I responded to that choice, my response was 'violently' erased out without any feedback!

 

 

In sort, this is a minor usability flaw, which caused a whole test & post adventure for all of us!

(That's how difficult and important a proper user interface is...)

 

So, to revise our bottom line,

[To user interface designer]:

Don't give the user invalid options.

(in our case, the invalid ones should be e.g. grayed out as a form of feedback that they shouldn't be selected).

I know and appreciate A:M designers' effort for the context aware toolbars. This is just something small they missed.

 

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I sympathize A:M (that's why I paid twice) and I'm investing time to learn how to use it.

[mtpeak2]

I'm sorry, but this is not a flaw in the interface, A:M is designed to open only the toolbars that are needed for the current window open.

 

Here's an example, if you hide the modeling toolbar in the modeling window, it will disappear. If you close the modeling window, open a chor window and select the modeling toolbar, when you press OK it will disappear, BUT if you reopen the modeling window, the toolbar is now there.

 

The A:M programmer is not likely to change this. Having all toolbars open in any window is not user friendly IMO and probably to most other users as well. It will just clutter up the interface and confuse the user as to what tools they need in the window they are using at the time.

 

As you mentioned before, you can create your own toolbar, with any tools you wish, customized to your liking.

[dllb]

if you hide the modeling toolbar in the modeling window, it will disappear. If you close the modeling window, open a chor window and select the modeling toolbar, when you press OK it will disappear, BUT if you reopen the modeling window, the toolbar is now there.

 

That's weird, no way to figure this out if you haven't read or been told about it. Nevertheless, it explains everything. The mystery is *now* solved. Thanx!