Digital Sculpting Displacement/Normal Test

[Epoch]

Thought I'd try something today just for kicks.

I had noticed in v14 that you can export OBJ files... I don't recall in previous versions of having a workable feature of this. So - I decided to test it out in getting some displacement and normal map textures for a model.

 

I started with a basic 4 point patch and unwrapped it for texturing purposes - and so that when I export the model I'd have it already unwrapped for whatever program I use to sculpt the texture details in.

Once I exported this patch I loaded it up in my sculpting app.. For this test I used Silo.

I sculpted in a sort of - I guess you'd call it an eye and then exported the displacement map and Normal map for A:M

Since they're still in beta I couldn't get the displacement working too well so in the images I'm posting you'll just see the normal map results

I didn't have to import anything back into A:M which is great because I won't have to lose my splines or have to mess around with polys etc.

I simply applied the normal map that was generated and there we go...

 

These renders are straight from the modeling viewport - no choreography or lights added... so keep that in mind.

I've included the model as well just in case you want to take a look at it.

I'm sure if you use ZBrush or those other costly apps you could implement it into the workflow

 

Lend me your ideas on this - as I haven't read anything about it here for some time.

test.mdl

[jakerupert]

You should experiment with a modell with five point patches and hooks.

That used to be the zones were problems with the uv coordinates could occur.

 

I wanted to try this with z-brush for quite a while now, but simply couldn`t find the time.

 

;>) Jake

[Epoch]

Here is the new test

All files included

I've used two hooks and a 5 point patch. Everything seems to work out pretty well. The lines in the normal map this time are most likely due to the limitations of the sculpting app that I was testing on. A:M seems to load these up and export perfectly.

 

The only issue that I had with exporting to sculpt in the details were in multiple hooks. If you use two or three hooks into one patch the polys aren't handled correctly. You will have some triangulated polys that overlap each other and cause an issue. The five point patch and hook easily translated into a simple triangle which worked out fine.

test.mdl

[Fuchur]

Here is the new test

All files included

I've used two hooks and a 5 point patch. Everything seems to work out pretty well. The lines in the normal map this time are most likely due to the limitations of the sculpting app that I was testing on. A:M seems to load these up and export perfectly.

 

The only issue that I had with exporting to sculpt in the details were in multiple hooks. If you use two or three hooks into one patch the polys aren't handled correctly. You will have some triangulated polys that overlap each other and cause an issue. The five point patch and hook easily translated into a simple triangle which worked out fine.

 

 

Two or more hooks in one patch are allowed but not well layouted splines anyway... sounds very nice!

*Fuchur*

[jakerupert]

Yes, sounds very interesting.

 

What I would like to test also one day is

to have a quite generic human mesh (maybe something like Sqeutchy Sam)

export the obj to Z-brush an work it out quite heavily with the displacement

sulpting tools and then reimport the displacement map AND the obj. file back into AM.

 

( this because Z-brush ALSO ALTERS the mesh of the obj when doing heavy deformation

with the sculpting tools )

 

If this would work, one would be able to create quite complex models out of

rather simple meshes quite easily and animate them within AM.

 

;>) Jake

[Epoch]

Thanks Fuchur - I hope to use this on some of my models soon

 

jakerupert - I think that method may not work. Seeing as how ZBrush takes models to the gigapoly level it would be insane (and quite unnecessary) for A:M to try and import a file with so many polys... Which is one reason why the splines are a bit better for the organic modeling in not needing so many patches.

 

I think for the extra detail it would probably be better to take just the displacement map onto the mesh to 'simulate' the extra details than having to bulk it up with more patches.

So long as the basic model is near what you'd like in A:M the displacement maps and/or normal maps should really take the model a step further without all of the unnecessary model exporting/importing headaches.

[jakerupert]

Hi Epoch

 

>jakerupert - I think that method may not work. Seeing as how ZBrush takes models to the gigapoly level it would be insane (and quite unnecessary) for A:M to try and import a file with so many polys... Which is one reason why the splines are a bit better for the organic modeling in not needing so many patches.

 

I think for the extra detail it would probably be better to take just the displacement map onto the mesh to 'simulate' the extra details than having to bulk it up with more patches.

So long as the basic model is near what you'd like in A:M the displacement maps and/or normal maps should really take the model a step further without all of the unnecessary model exporting/importing headaches.

 

Z brush would only alter the mesh in a form like pushing the existing "cps" around and not adding any, so when you export

that obj togehter with the displacement-map and reimport that obj mesh into AM it would have exactly the same patchcount as the original mesh

with just the cps being in a different for this model better suited position.

Maybe this discussion here can shed a bit more light on this?

[Epoch]

I believe the only reason they would export the mesh is so they can retopolize it with lower polygons - which to me is a butt load more work than getting it right prior to taking it into the digital sculpting apps. When you increase the rez on the models to do more sculpting you have to subdivide the mesh more and more which takes the polys up to the gigapoly levels. Millions upon millions of polygons just on a single object. You can keep the lower levels of the mesh for exporting to an application and still use the higher level displacement maps once you generate them - but it comes back to the original statement... that you have your mesh the way you want it prior to exporting , and just using the maps for rendering purposes.

You could probably reimport the lower level mesh back into animation master but the problem there is that the polygons don't really translate that well back into A:M. Its perfect going out but coming back in creates a lot of issues in terms of the direction of splines, hooks, creases etc. which will in turn destroy your hard work on the texture mapping and displacement painting.

It's kind of why I've suggested getting the model right prior to exporting and just bringing the map back in so everything stays the way it was and doesn't mess with how A:M handles its models... so that you still have a nice patch count, everything looks great, and its still animatable.

This is of course just my theory on what would happen, as I'm not able to test out z-brush myself (don't have it) but I have a few other displacement painting/sculpting apps and they mostly work the same. One is usually just able to go higher in resolution/polycount than others.

 

Does the 3dPainter app that A:M works well with contain a form of displacement painting/sculpting?

[3DPainter]

Does the 3dPainter app that A:M works well with contain a form of displacement painting/sculpting?

 

No, not in the current version. But you could use the standard paint tools to paint grayscale displacement or bump maps.

 

Filip

[Fuchur]

Does the 3dPainter app that A:M works well with contain a form of displacement painting/sculpting?

 

No, not in the current version. But you could use the standard paint tools to paint grayscale displacement or bump maps.

 

Filip

 

Hi Filip,

is something like "Realtime-Displacement" on your schedule, or is that just too difficult to programm?

 

*Fuchur*

[3DPainter]

[Hi Filip,

is something like "Realtime-Displacement" on your schedule, or is that just too difficult to programm?

 

*Fuchur*

 

I'm exploring the options. It would definitely be cool to have these things in the future.

 

Filip

[KenH]

I seem to remember in the past that if you increased your realtime resolution enough, the displacement map deformation would show in realtime too.....inside AM. So, there may be only technical difficulties rather than technical impossibilities.

 

That would be an amazing ability in 3DPainter.

[Epoch]

Filip -

There is another app out there for displacement painting called 3D brush that, on the fly - alters the normal maps rather than displacement sculpting. It makes it less process intensive to work with. Maybe try taking a look at it? It may give you some ideas in how to tackle a form of realtime displacement/normal map for 3dPaint.

It should would be nice to have a feature like this work directly with A:M to add that extra detail level to our models.