rough dragon model

[robcat2075]

Here's the shaded version:

 

That's odd. Is that short horizontal spline really on the front or is something missing?

[Roger]

I think I broke some patches - let me close those 5 pointers and post again.

[Roger]

Thats what it was - here is the head w/ closed patches.

[robcat2075]

Here's a start.

 

Delete the Cp at the yellow cross and break the two splines that were intersecting there. This will make the light gray area an open space.

 

Then extend splines (blue lines) from the beak into existing splines at the top and side of this now open space.

 

The one heading to the eye will need a new CP (purple) stitched into the spline ring it intersects (hold down SHIFT when you add the new CP). This spline will end in a hook at the next spline ring.

 

[Roger]

I think I have the first bit nailed, and some idea how to hook the lower beak/jaw into the face - what I'm worried about are the corners of the beak/mouth - the part I circled in green. Not sure how exactly I'm going to get that area to be a valid patch - will probably have to be a 5 point patch I'm guessing but there are 6 points so far that make up that area.

[robcat2075]

one possibility is to splice yet another spline between the to beeaks to divide that area in half. Although i don't like having those splines so close together.

[Roger]

Do you mean a spline running horizontally or vertically?

[Roger]

This might work, but I am thinking it may look kind of odd. I have a feeling I'm going to have to futz with it a lot to get it to look right.

[robcat2075]

yes, horizontally, but just one, not two.

[Roger]

yes, horizontally, but just one, not two.

 

Are you thinking of something like this? Get rid of the spline w/ the X on it and make that patch a 5 point patch?

[robcat2075]

The one spline i'm thinking of would go between the beaks, not into either one.

 

It may be necessary to spline the top and bottom beaks together so they form a "corner" to the mouth

[robcat2075]

[Roger]

 

 

Ok, I see where you're going with this. Do you think it would be better to fix one half of the face, then do a CFA or just fox both halves manually?

Also, I'm going to be tweaking the proportions of the head in relation to the rest of the body to see if I can get a "cuter" looking penguin - do you forsee problems doing this? I'm worried that it may have been easier to just model it that way from the get-go, I'm more or less pleased with the model but I want to get it looking closer to my sketches.

[Roger]

Ok I've done some stitching in of new splines, I have that half of the face closed off. I'm not sure if I should use a hook to join the proposed spline (in red) to that patch to close it off, or if I sould make that a 4 point patch by putting a cp there, but ten I'm lef with the problem of how to close up that patch to the right - I can't turn it into a 5 point patch as there would then be too many CPs. I'm also concerned I'm creating to much geometry. If I hook it in, it will close everything off and leave valid patches, but the hook wants to jump to an odd position on the vertical spline, leaving the mesh looking messy.

 

The other thing I am wondering is if I will need to redo my carefully done rigging now, since I will have all these additional splines.

[robcat2075]

but the hook wants to jump to an odd position on the vertical spline, leaving the mesh looking messy.

 

A hook won't attach where you've drawn it?

[robcat2075]

The other thing I am wondering is if I will need to redo my carefully done rigging now, since I will have all these additional splines.

 

You'll probably have to adjust something.

 

Usually when you start rigging something complex you find something you ought to respline anyway. It's a back and forth series of iterations.

[Roger]

but the hook wants to jump to an odd position on the vertical spline, leaving the mesh looking messy.

 

A hook won't attach where you've drawn it?

 

Unfortunately, no - it would be wonderful if it did. It jumps either above or below that point and ends up looking awful.

[Roger]

I wonder if the reason it will not attach is that there is already a hook above and below it. That could be why its having so many issues trying to "figure out" where to hook in.

[Roger]

I think I have something that might work - if I could get that large patch to be a valid 5 point patch. I've tried making it a 5 pointer and it doesn't want to be a 5 point patch no matter the order I select the CPs in.

 

I would then hook the other 2 splines in where the blue Xs are.

[NancyGormezano]

Unfortunately, no - it would be wonderful if it did. It jumps either above or below that point and ends up looking awful.

 

I have found that when that happens, I need to zoom in much closer to where I want to attach the hook. It usually works then.

 

And yes, looks like you have too many hooks stretching that area. Depending how you plan on animating the face, you might be happier with some additional splines, spline rings?

Edited November 11, 2010 by NancyGormezano

[Roger]

Ok, well that kinda worked. I have a ton of 5 point patches now (marked w/ red Xs) - do you think this will be a problem? I wasn't planning on doing a lot of facial animation, but the xtra rings might make it easier. At least it helped me solve the problem of how to close those patches. I will need to spend a lot of time adjusting individual CPs though, as the model looks a touch lumpy now.

[Roger]

I also have some bad creases around the mouth but I'm not sure thats going to be possible to fix.

[NancyGormezano]

I have a ton of 5 point patches now (marked w/ red Xs) - do you think this will be a problem?

 

5 pointers aren't necessarily a problem if their curvature isn't extreme. I think hooks present more of a problem when animating.

 

Have you seen Malo's wonderful tutorial on modeling using what he calls "extrusion". It solved many mysteries for me of how to model anything, and I do mean anything, without having to first plan for "holes", or changing direction. I will hunt up link. I might also have a simple diagram of his basic principle of how to "extrude" for organic models (eg arms coming out from body, beaks, noses, eye holes, etc), by adding spline rings.

[NancyGormezano]

Malo's Method of Modeling

 

the best!

[Roger]

Thanks so much, I'm going to check that out. In the meantime, I'm just going to live with the creases. I'm not sure they will be all that noticeable when I apply the clay shaders, anyway.

[robcat2075]

for the dark corners of the 5-pointers... make sure your normals are all in the same direction.

[Roger]

I tried selecting one of the patches that has a dark corner, then right clicking and choosing "flip normal" - doesn't seem to have done anything though.

 

I though that there was an option to display normals but I can't seem to find that.

[Roger]

Yay! I right-clicked one of the problems splines and chose "refind normals" and that did it.

[robcat2075]

I think bringing the corner of the beak farther into the mouth closer to the snout will simplify the splining and may be be more "character" looking.

 

BeakCorner.mdl

 

[robcat2075]

the spline coming out of the corner of the mouth can be ended in a hook pretty quickly.

 

[Roger]

I ended up struggling through it and got something that looks ok, I just need to reapply the patch colors.

Maybe I'll try the fix you did to the corner of the beak, it looks better than what I have now which is a bit of a mess.

I'm wondering about something, though - when I do "refind normals" it gets rid of the crease/shadow on one side but it pops up on the other.

Should I have done this operation before doing the CFA? Or would this happen no matter what? All in all I think it looks ok but I feel like I spent way too much time on this.

[robcat2075]

Actually what i showed there wasn't radically different from what you had.

 

Here are two less-splines alternatives...

 

 

[robcat2075]

Here's another candidate, this is my favorite so far...

 

 

BeakCornerE.mdl

 

 

 

 

That's a hook in the very corner of the mouth.

[NancyGormezano]

Another way: How Malo's Marvelous Modeling Method might progress for a beak (not the only way). Basic concept is to create more spline rings for more detail, more shape. One would only do half of course, then CFA as well (I did both sides - thus uneven). I like this method because you don't have to figure out how to attach things later. And most things are already closed. One follows a similar method for eyelids, ears, normal mouths, adding limbs, fingers.

 

I've just done a fast example for a beak shape. 1st example is with a grid, second with a head shape that was lathed with cross sections = 4, 3rd with cross sections =12. Malo's wonderful example in his tut uses 12 cross sections and works for any creature with 2 eyes, nose, mouth. I did not close the top of head, but Malo also shows a neat, clean, easy way to close the top. I love his method because I don't have to keep rethinking how to do anything.

beak.mdl

Edited November 12, 2010 by NancyGormezano

[Roger]

Working on some odds and ends today - thought I would do some scenery. To that end I remodelled the dragon cave (lost the original somehow).

[Roger]

Dragons need treasure to guard, right? So here is a rough start at a treasure chest. I am wondering if maybe I should extrude the interior panel (currently has a knife edge) to try and give some depth to the front and back. I also think it might be neat to do a bevel around the edges, or maybe model some iron bits to reinforce the corners? Maybe strapping or something? I'm going to grab the padlock I modelled from a while back and see what it looks like on the front. I think I am going to do a half circle extruded to make the top.

[Roger]

So I'm taking a break from working on some other things, and thought I would make a mod or two to the penguin character. Something has been bothering me about it, it hasn't looked quite cute enough to me. So I scaled the head in relation to the body, she is now about 3 heads tall and I think it makes for a cuter character. I may enlarge the eyes as well.

[Roger]

Also noticed something really odd when I went into bones mode to futz around with the model: when moving the bones, a sort of "after image" of the bone is left behind, and doesn't go away if I try to refresh the screen. Any ideas why this is happening and how I can get rid of it? I didn't have this happen before.

[robcat2075]

If a bone is blue (signifying a keyframe) that means you're not in a model mode, you're in an action or the chor or a pose.