Grassey problemo

[Mr. Jaqe]

I'm having a MAJOR problem, my color won't stick to the grass.

 

I've followed the "Hairy Grass" tutorial step by step, but when I render, the color won't stick to the grass... May I've pushed a button that doesn't makes decals disappear when rendered? Anyways, here's a picture before the rendering.

[Mr. Jaqe]

And here's a rendered picture:

[KenH]

You should watch the tech talk video on hair. I believe the problem might be that you have a material in the model. A material over-rides a decal on the hair and the hair colour(in the surface properties) over-rides a material....I think.

[Mr. Jaqe]

Thank you for the answer Ken. A bit confusing, but that may have something to do with my lack of sleep... Anyways, where would I find that movie? I can't seem to find it Again, that may be a result of my tiredness.

[KenH]

There all listed in Rodneys first post here....under the Hash teck talks....the last hair one:

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13883

[Mr. Jaqe]

Ooookaaay... I just can't get the damn color to stick to the grass and I gotta deliver tomorrow... H-E-L-P!!

 

Ok, so here's what I did:

1. I created all the damn patches.

2. I hid all the patches that weren't going to be covered with grass.

3. I applied the grass material

4. I applied the decals, both fractal and herbe, once each.

5. Then I imported a second herbe image and applied the property lengt to fractal(shadow) and color to the first herbe image and diffuse color to the second herbe image.

6. I unhid the unused patches, put everything up in coreography and rendered.

7. *POFF* Green color gone, the COLOR image seems to have been applied to the ground, not the material... and when I check surface color, it only diffuse color show up, not color.

 

Any ideas, PLEASE? The tech talk didn't help me much, unless I missed something

[heyvern]

On step 3...

 

3. I applied the grass material

 

Applied to what? It won't matter if the splines are hidden if you drag a material to the model or to a group... it will go on everything regardless.

 

You need to create a grass group and drag the grass/hair material to that.

 

You seem to be very close... but can't tell from your description where you've gone wrong exactly...

 

7. *POFF* Green color gone, the COLOR image seems to have been applied to the ground, not the material... and when I check surface color, it only diffuse color show up, not color.

 

You can't apply a decal to a material... I don't get that part... if the ground was visible when you applied the grass decal... the ground has the decal as well.

 

You should have one grass group. this is the only thing that should get hair grass. Nothing else. Hide everything when applying the DECAL to the grass. You need a grass group to apply the hair material. Hiding stuff and dragging a material to the model still applies it to the hidden stuff. Drag it to the grass group.

 

The video I believe only had one model that was all hair. So I think the materials were being dragged to the whole model and not to a group within the model.

 

I am pretty sure this is how it was working.

 

Vernon "Hair club for men" Zehr

[seven]

The normals are they pointing upwards?

Select/Group and then

SHIFT+1 to see and hide the normals

 

Right click the group to choose: Flip Normals

 

 

Here is grass_test01.prj functioning!

And I have not used any color to the grass - just two bitmaps....

grass_test01.zip

[seven]

And here an image showing the bitmaps used in the material, the grid in the modeling window with the material applied and a render in the choreography.

[Mr. Jaqe]

Sorry for that horrid description there, vern, but I was in a hurry. I DID make a group for the grass and I DID apply it to the group ONLY. If you look at the images posted above, you should see that I did it right. And I did hide everything but the grass and then applied the decal and then set the property to color on one image and diffuse color on another image(they were just copies of eachother). So what you're saying last in your post is that I need to hide everything but the group and just apply? Not to the group, just apply? Or...? Well, I'll try it out anyways.

 

And seven, I don't use A color, I use a image as color. And all the normals are pointing the right way(man, it took forever to flip all the ones that were in between). Thnx for the file, I'll look into it and see if I can't adapt the settings to my project, but firstly I'll try Verns way( if it was ment to be "a way" or just a question or... whatever, I'll just try it ).

[heyvern]

Hold on!

 

If you were applying the hair/grass material to the grass group that is CORRECT.

 

The decal when applied to a model, only "sticks" to patches that are visible. I guess what got me confused was that you said the ground had the grass not the grass... the only way this would happen is if somehow the grass/hair material was applied to the ground... If the ground has the color of the decal... then the ground got the decal too.

 

So the grass group is just the "surface" of the ground. The grass group is the only part of the whole thing that should have anything that is part of the hair grass material or decals.

 

There shouldn't be any materials assigned to the "model"... all materials should be applied only to groups.

 

When the color disappears... it only disappears in final render? It shows up in preview?

It very well could be.... an issue.... uh... that needs to be reported. You may want to send the project to Hash support. I can't be sure.

 

Vernon "Hair club, for beating men with hair" Zehr

[Mr. Jaqe]

Well, the thing is that DIFFUSE color shows up in preview, is that the way it's suppose to be? because it IS diffuse color that makes color, right?

 

When the color disappears... it only disappears in final render? It shows up in preview?

It very well could be.... an issue.... uh... that needs to be reported. You may want to send the project to Hash support. I can't be sure.

Weeell, it may be an issue, but... I kinda need it fixed by tomorrow *stress* I'll just keep experimenting and maybe I'll use sevens grass. We'll see.

[NancyGormezano]

Curious - How many stamps of the decal do you have? - I notice that if there are multiple stamps & one selects "Other" for the decal application method property - and tries to then "add property" - multiple choices of "diffuse color" show - (with no indication of which one to select, or is already selected) - I usually try selecting them one by one (and keeping a mental note which one I've selected) - until I get the effect I want - that usually clears it up -

 

also was not exactly following if there was another material (other than hair) also applied to the patches...

 

also what is your rendering params (final? , passes?, etc) - sometimes I have found a difference -(could be making this up?)

[Mr. Jaqe]

I'm rather stupid, though... I could've posted this 4 days ago, but nooo, I had to delay...

 

Nancy, I've tried using both one and two stamps with both one and two images with one and two properties, but nothing seems to work. The wierd thing is that it actually worked once... Why dude up in the sky, WHY?!?!

 

I'm rendering in final, no passes, just regular settings( unless I've changed something by mistake

[NancyGormezano]

I've tried using both one and two stamps with both one and two images with one and two properties, but nothing seems to work. The wierd thing is that it actually worked once...

 

Sometimes I also find if I've been doing a lot of experimenting, fiddling, changing order of application decals, etc - AM gets kinda confused - and seems to be operating in a different time zone (couldn't possibly be me) - soooo...

 

I would try deleting the decal (whole thing) - reapplying the decal - and going thru the drill again - change property to OTHER, add property - diffuse_color.

 

 

ALSO what just occurred to me - do you have a GROUP that comes after the "grass" group in the model that the grass group belongs to? that might override the properties - change the order in the pws - (also find sometimes this doesn't register immediately) - but if I keep moving them in the pws (ie changing order) eventually it sticks - (bet that was clear as goo)

[Mr. Jaqe]

I would try deleting the decal (whole thing) - reapplying the decal - and going thru the drill again - change property to OTHER, add property - diffuse_color.

Well, I've tried that... 30 times...

 

One thing I noticed though, when I've set the property, save the project and go into coreography, the property changes to: ...|Hair Emitter|Attribute.Surface.Diffuse.Color . What's up with that?

[Mr. Jaqe]

What the...?!?! I tried removing the image and the decal and apply a color, but not even that will show up!

 

I'll try one last thing: importing all the models into a new coreography, maybe that'll work...

[NancyGormezano]

relooked at your first images posted of screen render & final - looks to me like the color of the grass is the color of the water (final) - are you sure that your grass group isn't part of the water group or vice versa -

 

I'm really stretching here...

[KenH]

You could maybe post the project and we can take a look at it.

[Mr. Jaqe]

Nancy - Yep, I'm sure, I think...

 

Ken - sure thing, I would really apriciate it.

 

EDIT: ok, this is kinda odd... If I'm not mistaking, I can see the color of the grass reflecting in the water. This problem is actually starting to frustrate me just a incy wincy bit

School_project.prj

[NancyGormezano]

none of the materials was included with the project - need everything...

[KenH]

I'm afraid there's nothing in that project. You must have all the files saved externally. You could right click on the project in the PWS and embed all. Or go to File>Consolidate.

[Mr. Jaqe]

Okiiiii, the project is too BIG... Woho...

 

seven - I have dl'd it, however my grass is set up a little different. If mine doesn't work my midnight, I'll use yours

 

Edit: nvm, zipping is a nice thing

Project.rar

[KenH]

Maybe you could just post a copy of the grass material, object and the decal?

[Mr. Jaqe]

Ken - lookie at the post above. And thank ye again for looking into this.

[Mr. Jaqe]

That's very odd... I did just like Ken told me to, it should work.

[mtpeak2]

Right click on the hair group and choose remove from groups to see if it is part of another group. Also it looks as though you have a material applied to the ground (dirt on the side of the river), is that applied to the whole ground? If so, your hair material will use that color.

[Mr. Jaqe]

Yepp, it works for me.

 

mtpeak2: No, the hair is part of the grass group ONLY, I've checked it 300 times. All materials are applied to where they are suppose to be... I think. And the material uses NO color, that's the problem

[Mr. Jaqe]

seven, you DID download the project zip, right? Anyways, here's all the stuff:

Model_and_stuff.rar

[seven]

To me it looks fine!

One problem perhaps - opening the .mdl-file

A:M is looking after some Ocean.mat on H:

 

Do you have a H:/?

The ocean.mat what is it good for? The litlle brook?

[Mr. Jaqe]

Don't mind that mat, it's just for the water, which ain't the problem

 

Try rendering the project, see what you get then...

[seven]

The rendering is done! I have already sent you the rendering...

[seven]

I had a look... You are using this FRACTAL3.TGA for the length - perhaps your computer are not able to use it? To complicated? Delete it and have a look...

[Mr. Jaqe]

Dude, I can't see any rendered pictures, only preview ones. And the color shows up there, but not when rendered.

[seven]

OK! They are Quick rendered

But here you are not quite right:

 

Diffuse Color better make green!!!!!

 

Specular Color does not matter!!!!

[seven]

Well rendered not so nice!

But the grass seems to grow not in the sun...

[Mr. Jaqe]

That may be, but I did a final render, and when I did, the color didn't show up, THAT's the problem. Not that it's not showing up in coreography, but that it doesn't show up when it's fully rendered. And I HAVE set the color to diffuse color.

 

EDIT: ok, why the heck doesn't that happen on MY computer?

[KenH]

The problem isn't helped that this is an old v10 hair material. But try using this material in place of the one you're using (make a copy of your one first). There was some surface settings in the material eg ambiance.

Herbes.mat

[seven]

I made a new hair material but gave a lot of density:7

so my computer bogged down a bit....

But here it is!

without any bitmaps

density 1

[seven]

Here is the Project file - the bitmaps and material file not needed!

But I think the computer gets to much to do

using this one also!

grass_seven01.zip

[KenH]

Joakim: I edited my last post with a material. That might work.

[Mr. Jaqe]

Thnx, both of you! I tried creating one myself, but it doesn't look like it's working so far... I seem to have the same problem with difused color, but I'll try both of yours and see if they work.

 

Again, thank you x a billion!

[seven]

Here is some output... It took me 2 minutes to render this VGA-size.

[seven]

You have to go to Tools > Option > Rendering

and put OFF Draw Particles/Hair

I believe

if it will be possible to move things around in the choreography

and perhaps use that simple hair I sent you

without any bitmaps

just DIFFUSE COLOR and DENSITY:1

and a thick grass 2 cm

[KenH]

"Shift 8" will quickly turn on/off hair particles.

 

Sure 7, I'll support you when you have some AM questions.

[Mr. Jaqe]

HAHA! IT WORKED! YEY! THANK YOU KEN, THANK YOU SEVEN! WHEEE!

 

Now all left to do is to make 8 renders, all multi-passed and from different views. The time shows 01:34, but I give a frac, because I have to do this.

 

I'm so happy!!

[seven]

Yes I will send you Thom with dynamic constraints and grass on it!

See if you can get it right!

Or perhaps a nude 3D female showing some grass?

[Mr. Jaqe]

If my teacher doesn't give me an A on this one... who would like to come along and kill him and make it look like an accident, if that was to happend?

 

Oh and btw, the solution was that the hair material was acting odd, so thank you Ken for the material and thank you seven for your wink tutorial on grass and thank you guy I don't know name of that made the other tut on hairgrass. You were all extremely helpfull.

[seven]

Thom having some problem! He is half nude!

Hope you do not get to upset looking at him...

What to do with Thom? so he not will upset someone?

Perhaps the normals pointing in the wrong direction?

It must be a real A:M question.

[seven]

And here another alternative - not showing the upsetting parts.