rago Posted May 7, 2005 Posted May 7, 2005 A scene of my short shows my character looking into a mirror and making some faces, but I realized that when rendering to file the reflected hair is totally different from the original. This does not happen when I render to screen, and the funny part is that the lenght of the hair is the property most affected! The scene shows a small part of the head from back with the hair like it's supposed to be, but for some reason reflected it's totally different, it hardly comes out of the head!!! It must be some kind of bug or so, can somebody explain and help me resolve this problem!!! I'm using A:M 10.5 Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 7, 2005 Posted May 7, 2005 yes it is a bug - I also experience it in 11.1c - reported it a long time ago. you will also find if your model is made inactive the shadows and reflections will still show up from the hair. like a big hairy ghost... doo do doo do (hum to theme of twilight zone) Quote
rago Posted May 7, 2005 Author Posted May 7, 2005 So what shall I do, it's an important scene of a short I'm making for my thesis, what are your suggestions, the character is reflecting himself in a cracked and dirty mirror! Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 7, 2005 Posted May 7, 2005 (edited) So what shall I do I wish I knew. Obviously for me, I had to move the inactive model when I didn't want the hair to show the shadows and bring it back to position when I did want to see the model. As for when its active - I have no idea what to do... I had to change my plans and shoot from a different angle - so that one didn't see the reflections... in another shot - I just lived with the bad imagery. - not a good choice. EDIT - just rechecked the project that was giving me trouble (in 11.1c) - and I was doing a combo of toon render with hair (using an image emitter) & reflections - the reflection was wrong - when I did it without toon, ie normal render (no shadows, final render, no multi) - the reflection looked strange - but was probably correct - was showing the dark side in the reflection, and confused my poor little brain) Edited May 8, 2005 by NancyGormezano Quote
bentothemax Posted May 8, 2005 Posted May 8, 2005 I just purchased AM V11.1 about a month ago. I suggest upgrading to 11.1 then come to the forum and download the 11.1f ugrade, I have that, and the hair in my scenes reflects well. The plus side of getting 11.1 is that you have a year's worth of upgrades for only 99 dollars and V 12 is in its beta versions, and i must say that V 12 has some really good new features (cloth,compositing, greater radiosity abilities, etc.) If you want i can post a render of one of my scenes where the hair is relfected. Ben Quote
PixelDust Posted May 8, 2005 Posted May 8, 2005 Rago, I haven't tried this, but this could work... Maybe you could render your character making the faces from a straight-on angle, and then map an animated decal of that sequence onto your mirror object to fake the reflection. I thought about doing this once way back when A:M's hair didn't show up in reflections. HTH! Quote
entity Posted May 8, 2005 Posted May 8, 2005 If you decal a straight on view it will not be correct in the camera angle. You could just put your character on the opposite side of the mirror-- take the mirror out and composite it in... it would be a lot more work, but if it is soooo important to get this scene in perfectly it's viable. To continue... you could render your scene with the mirror as a bluescreen or whatever color is not promenent in the scene, from that you can create an alpha or hold out area. Then once you have that you could rearrange the scene so the camera is at the correct angle (I think opposite the original position?) and use the render you did (that has a hole where the mirror is) as a projection rotoscope. Now you can render the scene again with the new angle view through the mirror hole completes the effect. I know it sounds complex... but if you have no other option it could help to try it. Does this seem close to what you want? Quote
rago Posted May 8, 2005 Author Posted May 8, 2005 Thanx for your help, I think that I'll try your tips and maybe stick with the one that gets clossest to the effect that I want to obtain!!! As soon as I get something done I'll post here to show!!! Quote
bentothemax Posted May 8, 2005 Posted May 8, 2005 I tried somthing out last night. Make a new material, and do nothing to it EXCEPT set the diplacement value to 0. Apply that material to the mirror, and is should redner the hair just fine. Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 8, 2005 Posted May 8, 2005 Just edited my previous post - don't want to steer you in the wrong direction: "just rechecked the project that was giving me trouble (in 11.1c) - and I was doing a combo of toon render with hair (using an image emitter) & reflections - the reflection was wrong - when I did it without toon, ie normal render (no shadows, final render, no multi) - the reflection looked strange - but was probably correct - was showing the dark side in the reflection, and confused my poor little brain) " Are you perhaps seeing the "dark side" also? (not sure how things worked in 10.5) Quote
rago Posted May 8, 2005 Author Posted May 8, 2005 No, the character's hair shortens to the point that it looks like it can't manage to get out of the head, plus the ends turn white giving some strange spec highlight! Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 8, 2005 Posted May 8, 2005 I wish I could help - best to post the picture - but also unfortunately I don't think hash will be doing anything more to fix any of 10.5 bugs as they seem to be deep into ver 12..I can't say that I've experienced any hair length problems, or hair spec probs in 11 in the reflections - if you don't want to switch versions in the middle of a project - some workaround might be the only choice... Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 8, 2005 Posted May 8, 2005 heres another wild guess - I just noticed you said it works correctly when you render to screen - I experienced something similar with sprites - would render correctly to screen but not in final render - turned out I had to set some parameters in the Sprite system properties even though I had set them in the emitter property - it might be the same problem with hair - try setting all the hair system properties by just keying in what is already there.. Quote
rago Posted May 9, 2005 Author Posted May 9, 2005 And that would be? I don't think I am understanding what you mean! Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 9, 2005 Posted May 9, 2005 I may be comparing apples to garbonzo beans (and yes I've been called that a few times)...but in ver 11 (I do not have 10.5 installed) - there are two areas to set properties for hair - the system, and the emitter. Even though the default properties may be set for how you want them (as witnessed by them rendering correctly to the screen) - it may be necessary for you to actually type in the default values (to render correctly in final): - so using my picture as an example, one would actually key in 100% for thickness, kinkiness, etc. I had to do that for some Sprite (not hair) systems (which has a similar setup) in ver 11 to get it to render correctly in final. I have not found I need to do this for hair in ver 11.1c LIKE I said...may be apples to garbonzo beans...someone else pleaseeeee help ... save this poor guy from my wild arse guessing... Quote
rago Posted May 10, 2005 Author Posted May 10, 2005 Yes it is quite different in 10.5 version! Too bad! Quote
rusty Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I could be wrong but doesn't hair always face the camera? If this is so, then I don't see how it could work in a mirror or any surface with reflection (which is a real shame and a design error). You would have to 'fake' it as previously suggested. I'm really hoping this is not the case and, if someone got it to work in a newer version, as I think I read then, I must be wrong. Rusty Quote
Admin Rodney Posted May 10, 2005 Admin Posted May 10, 2005 I could be wrong but doesn't hair always face the camera? Yep Rusty... you are wrong. Quote
rago Posted May 10, 2005 Author Posted May 10, 2005 I'm posting an image to let you understand my problem! Note the hair on the character and the reflected hair of the character!!! specchio105.tga Quote
NancyGormezano Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 checked your image - first off - it's best to post a jpeg - so people can view it easily, and be able to offer better suggestions - SO since I highly doubt Hash will fix any bugs in 10.5 (not even sure about 11.1) - you most likely are going to have to find a workaround & perhaps change your scene plans So in that scene - since one doesn't see the both the "real" guy, and mirrored image of the guy at the same time - perhaps you can fake the reflection by setting it up with a either a compositing program and layering the transparenty cracked mirror on top of guy - or do it in AM that way - film the "real guy" with a transparentish faked mirror in front of him... Quote
rago Posted May 11, 2005 Author Posted May 11, 2005 Yeah that's what I think I'll do! Sorry for the tga, just thought that since everybody has A:M and since it was only few K, I lefted that way!!! Thanx Quote
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