3DArtZ Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 So, part of the shoulder joint I had been using in cogs had a bone put in to move it off center when the arm moved. Now with expressions added to the software I wanted to give the joint another look and after almost putting my head through the wall over the math last week, I have gotten to testing this on some of my models that have gone by the wayside.... if you get a min, take a looksee..... Comparisons - tony's left shoulder is an unedited Cog joint and his right shoulder is this new joint i've been pursuing for a while.... Put it in the right elbow too.... sorenson3, 2mbs, but looks really compressed.... http://www.3dartz.com/WIPs/DCogs1.mov Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Being a complete newb, I will only add my asthetic comment. I like the front of his right shoulder and the back of his left shoulder. BTW, I have seen several mentions of the cogs shoulder rig. What is the history/meaning of cogs? Love the Tony model! Fishman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 9, 2004 Hash Fellow Share Posted December 9, 2004 It looks good, but I must be missing something in the Cog tutorial because when i move a shoulder up high like that the rib area comes way, way out to the side, even on the finished sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DArtZ Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Being a complete newb, I will only add my asthetic comment. I like the front of his right shoulder and the back of his left shoulder. BTW, I have seen several mentions of the cogs shoulder rig. What is the history/meaning of cogs? Love the Tony model! Fishman Hey Fishman, thanks for the reply. This setup I'm working on is still in it's development stage.... I'm still examining the mechanics behind the shoulder itself and will probably changes this more times thanI care to imagine right now! As far as the history/meaning of cogs..... well the history of it is just a setup of fans that I tied together to make a body system without having to use smartskin.... Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DArtZ Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 It looks good, but I must be missing something in the Cog tutorial because when i move a shoulder up high like that the rib area comes way, way out to the side, even on the finished sample. Hey Robert, what you experienced was an unavoidable (at the time) short coming of the Shoulder set up. The shoulders in the Cogs setup were designed to move automatically, unfortunatly at the expense of real shrugging. I always thought that I would just put an addendum of the cog tutorial out on how to add the shrug and not disturb the normal functioning of the shoulders, but I was unable to in any reasonable way add it. However, the design that I'm working on now shrugs with no ill effects on the joint. the joint reacts very nicely to it, stretching the skin over the joint. The major thing left to do is to fix the setup so that it attaches nicely to the chest and ribs. Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Will previous owners get a free upgrade? (wink wink nudge nudge). I love your cog system, but desperately need to shrug. I agree, the back of the left, good, front of the right, good. Would like to see the movement from the back as well as the front. Vernon "!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Looks good...I like the way the new and improved shoulder moves...but I like the OLD elbow better, the way the flesh of the arm and forearm push into each other like that... So its safe to assume the is NO SMARTSKIN here right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DArtZ Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Will previous owners get a free upgrade? (wink wink nudge nudge). I love your cog system, but desperately need to shrug. I agree, the back of the left, good, front of the right, good. Would like to see the movement from the back as well as the front. Vernon "!" Zehr Hey Vern, interesting question. We'll get to that once the joint is finished Looks like the joint mechanics can be applied to other areas as well... Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DArtZ Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Looks good...I like the way the new and improved shoulder moves...but I like the OLD elbow better, the way the flesh of the arm and forearm push into each other like that... So its safe to assume the is NO SMARTSKIN here right? Hey John, yeah no smartskin. This shoulder has fewer bones, just more instructions. Expressions really are a neat thing that needs to be explored more. No matter what happens with the joint, I don't think(for me I'm saying) they will flush cogs down the tubes....The elbow, hips seem to be better off with the pinwheel cog set up at this point. Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DArtZ Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Here's the same clip, but with some nice pretty colors. No porcelain on this render. I'm still so impressed with Hash's toon render. I don't think there is any software that matches up better... sorenson3 http://www.3dartz.com/WIPs/DCogsX.mov Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfree68f Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Hey Mike, My only comment is that it looks good, but the right shoulder, though it moves correctly, seems to grow the front deltoid out of the bicep. I know this might not be as obvious in a shaded mode.. but texture maps would give it away as well. Could you move it so the deltoid started more toward the pec and slid up. If you look at the line of the detoid as the shoulder shrugs. the muscle moves to a point where it inserts almost vertically above the nipple line. Yours does that but doesnt seems to grow out of the arm as opposed to rotating up. I hope that I explained that right. and also that it didnt come across as a slam... I like this alot.. Just wondering how flexible the positioning of the center of rotation of the parts around the arm is.. not knowing the mechanics of how your doing it. What exactly are you using expressions for? rotation of the fan bones? or is it rotation controlling translation? if its a trade secret I understand. cool stuff.. Keep it coming C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DArtZ Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 Hey Mike, My only comment is that it looks good, but the right shoulder, though it moves correctly, seems to grow the front deltoid out of the bicep. I know this might not be as obvious in a shaded mode.. but texture maps would give it away as well. Could you move it so the deltoid started more toward the pec and slid up. If you look at the line of the detoid as the shoulder shrugs. the muscle moves to a point where it inserts almost vertically above the nipple line. Yours does that but doesnt seems to grow out of the arm as opposed to rotating up. I hope that I explained that right. and also that it didnt come across as a slam... I like this alot.. Just wondering how flexible the positioning of the center of rotation of the parts around the arm is.. not knowing the mechanics of how your doing it. What exactly are you using expressions for? rotation of the fan bones? or is it rotation controlling translation? if its a trade secret I understand. cool stuff.. Keep it coming C Hey Colin, thanks for the reply! I really like the character work you've been posting. Great stuff!! And, no way would I classify your post as a slam. I'm glad you took the time to reply! So, I'm still early on in the development of the joint so things will change. But I think that the shape of the mesh contributes to what we see when the joint moves to some extent. On your hero character, my joint might not move the folds, creases and bends in the mesh as real as you'd want it.... But I think the joint that I'm assembling will do a great job with Mr.Incredible type of joints, and also with joints that don't need the ultra realistic performance. But still to be seen, because lets face it, if you can get the mesh to bend and squash, there's no reason it can't look like how skin bends, squashes and stretches. Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elquintojinete001 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I am impressed with the look toon of the model. How did he make it? I am proving and I have not achieved him to be so beautiful and that the shades are seen. A latinoamérica greeting my English excuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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