Space Marine, First Pass

[Octropos]

Howdy all,

 

Here's a fellow from a current project. Comments, reactions, critiques, suggestions all welcome!

(edit) Should mention no texturing other than group colors. Trying to get the modelling nailed down first.

[modernhorse]

Nice looking model so far. He looks a bit chunky on the bottom in particular from the back view, to my eyes. Lengthening the legs a tad might help that.

 

 

Doug

[KenH]

I agree. Looks good otherwise. But his arms aren't in a T-pose. Is he rigged already?

[Octropos]

Thanks for the comments. The legs have been the trouble spot on this one. The idea is that this suit incorporates artificial muscles for the major groups, this means that some areas of the body get thicker/bulkier and others don't, and it's been a challenge fiddling the proportions to have them look right this way.

 

I will change the lengths/proprotions on the pelvis/legs area some and post new pics.

 

Please don't hesitate to post additional comments in the meantime

[ZachBG]

Nice. Are you going to use CP weighting to make the "plates" look right, or some kind of fan bone system?

[Octropos]

Due to the mechanical nature of the articulations (Can't see the detail at this resolution, but the elbows and knees are fully articulated), I'll probably do fan bones.

 

and Ken- He's got his arms down mainly to make modelling the shoulders easier for me. I will T-Pose the arms when it comes time to rig. Works OK to do this on a space marine as he's more robot than man. Hmm. . . perhaps a slogan there. . .

 

Thanks for the feedback so far. Is this a model that would get you excited to animate if you had it in your collection?

 

That's my overall goal with this. I've always liked best the things that made me want to jump in and move them around.

[luckbat]

I think most of the trouble you're going to run into with this model will stem from the conflict between "realistic/plausible" and "looks cool." Right now your model has the proportions of an average guy. This is fine, but when you're building a cyborg warrior, viewer expect much more heroic proportions. Please don't take this the wrong way, but right now he looks like a costumed guy at a comic-book convention. (Forgive me!)

 

Here's a link to a page about human measurements: http://www2.evansville.edu/drawinglab/body.html

 

If you look at your model from the back, you can see where the proportions are going awry. His hamstring muscle is shorter than his chest muscle! You could get away with a 50% increase in leg length without sacrificing plausibility. If he were an anime character, you could double the length.

 

In the same vein, making the head a bit smaller will help lend the character more powerful look.

 

Another area that will help sell the idea of strength is giving Space Marine a more Y-shaped upper body. Right now he has... well, love handles. If you tighten up his waist and move his shoulders farther apart, he'll look a lot tougher.

 

Finally, the reason Ken asked about the T-pose might have been those shoulder pads. Unless they're made of cloth or something, your marine won't be able to raise his arms at all!

 

I hope I'm not sounding discouraging. I wouldn't spend my time writing this if I didn't think the model had potential. I personally would like to see you push your influences a bit more. His collar, kneepads and gloves give him a medieval knight feel, while the helmet is more samurai-esque. The black joints have a Robocop vibe, etc. So keep going! Do some more research into Eastern/Western armor, for example, for more ideas on how to "clothe" your marine.

 

Best of luck!

[Octropos]

Luckbat,

First off a big thanks for that critique! If anything it gets me more fired up to work on this model. . .do I need help?

 

I apologise in advance for some of the rambling wordiness of the replies. I hope no one takes them in any kind of argumentative or defensive way. They are meant to try and explain some of the thinking that lead me to do what I did on this model in the hopes of helping everyone see where I was trying go- at least with the parts that were intentional - so they can help me get there. All the points you and the others have brought up are good ones!

Obviously if my design ideas aren't visually apparent, I did an insufficient job of executing on them, which is why these critiques are so great.

 

I think most of the trouble you're going to run into with this model will stem from the conflict between "realistic/plausible" and "looks cool." Right now your model has the proportions of an average guy. This is fine, but when you're building a cyborg warrior, viewer expect much more heroic proportions. Please don't take this the wrong way, but right now he looks like a costumed guy at a comic-book convention. (Forgive me!)

 

Commander Courage, perhaps?

(Bonus points if you catch that reference )

 

With you on the plausible/cool issue. The intent is to go for more realism, thus the average guy, but as you note that can drop the cool factor. I am hoping to get this model into a happy balance between the realism and looking cool.

 

I am intentionally avoiding 'heroic' proportions for artistic(Lots of people already do them, and do them very well) as well as practical reasons. The chief practical reason draws on the observation that most soldiers look like an average guy much more than they look like body builders. The reference I used for a rotoscope was a man who is probably some sort of Decathelete- he has an even, all over muscle development, rather than Huge Pectorals or Massive Thighs. I envision that these soldiers will have to operate anywhere from heavy gravity to zero-g, and even with artificial muscles, there's a certain amount of innate physical strength the wearer must possess to be effective, but they don't want to be too bulky either. So the suit is designed around someone more muscular than me, but much less so than Arnold.

 

That said, I'll be reducing the obliques to get rid of the love handles and try to get some more triangularity in the torso, as well as doing something about the Gastrocs. The armor part of the artifical muscles is really there to give them room to contract in- a Gastroc is long but when fully contracted tends to bunch up pretty tightly near the top (at least mine do), so I was trying to just model some space for the contracted muscle, assuming the rest would fit inside the greave when relaxed. I have realised after thinking about your comment that artifical muscles need artifical tendons, and while most of them can be hidden inside the armor, the Achilles are prominent enough to warrant some modelling.

 

 

I'll fiddle with the head size a bit. I utilized the same reference picture as for the torso and arms. The biggish head size results from making room for padding, electronics, and etc inside the helmet. A small shrinkage might give the effect you suggest and still leave room for all that.

 

The helmet design is actually a mix of later-period Japanese and Gothic-period Burgundian, with Itallian influences. I liked the looks of the first and the practical considerations of the second. I'll see what I can do for the lower face-mask (I think that's the biggest design clash with the rest of the helmet). I believe the texturing ideas I have in mind for that area will bring the styles together more, but you've got me thinking of some modelling solutions to the problem as well now. I'll try to work something up and post it soon.

 

The Pauldrons (shoulders)- They're actually on a hinge, roundabout where the trapezius would join the distal clavicle/shoulder area, you'll see it when he moves. There is the problem of him not being able to raise his arms _straight_ up, even with the hinge, as well as not being able to reach up and behind. I have a solution that would allow for such a ROM and still maintain the coverage, but it's kind of complicated to build so I think the wearer may just have to put up with it. After all, this armor was built by the lowest bidder

 

Thanks again everybody, for the great suggestions/comments! I hope my rambling and long-winded replies have not dissuaded anyone from making any more. I'd like to get this model as cool and believeable as possible, so keep em coming!

 

I'll try to get a new render with these changes up tomorrow.

[luckbat]

Truth be told, I haven't seen the Hamill mockumentary you're referring to, but I've heard great things.

 

First off a big thanks for that critique! If anything it gets me more fired up to work on this model. . .

 

You're very welcome.

 

Man. Someday I hope I can learn to handle criticism as well as you can.

[Octropos]

Well, the criticism lets me know how close I am to achieving my goals with a piece, so I kind of look forward to it. I've also learned not to put things up for critique until I'm ready for the feedback, though

 

Here's the latest with a lot of the changes suggested. Still not 100% there on the legs, I feel. I won't comment on it further so as not to influence opinions.

 

Thanks in advance for your comments and critiques as always!

[CreativeAustinYankee]

One area that hasn't really been commented on is the hands/gauntlets. The "look" of the rest of the armor makes them seem a bit simple in contrast. I recommend segmenting the fingers.

 

I like the "Cylon" type helmet.

 

Keep at it, I can just picture a dozen of these guys armed with laser rifles heavily engaged in a fire-fight.

 

Steve P.

[Octropos]

The hands/forearms are my next area to work on, for sure. As the rest of him gets tidied up they just look blockier and blockier. . . .

 

Thanks for the feedback, feel free to keep it coming!