Resampling

[Madfox]

Surfing on the board I came to an example of someone who wanted to explore the new advantages of AM17.

It was an example of, I think resampling a model. It had a model cached out locked and it showed how to add new splines on the model that were positioned with help of the magnetic mode. In this way it is possible to recreate the model in another spline fetched .

I looked several times but  I can't find it. 

[robcat2075]

that is Snap-to-surface Mode. Button looks like this --->

 

https://forums.hash.com/search/?q="snap to surface"&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy

[Madfox]

Hey thanks, Robocat

That was what I was looking for.

[Madfox]

I Had seen the patch-to-spline button earlier, but was not able to use it. Untill I read the tutorial from Fucher and then it became clear to me. I just thought it would work on the model itself but it had needed a special setup. Thanks for that. 

I decided to make use of it, as it is a good way to cloath a model. Using the Basic Man model I made a thunderbird astronaut. As I could not use the face I took one I made of my own face. It is a bit scattered, but after some transistions it started to look a bit like Scotty Tracey.

Yes, a good move to simplify high vertice models into squads, or again, cloathes. I got that funny error in the trowsers, I think I need to make another patch.

[robcat2075]

He looks quite spiffy!

[Madfox]

Yeh, thanks for advice. It starts to make a look. I was quiet astonished about the scale model relayed to the airplane.

Something else caught my attention as I was reading about more skeleton models, at least the one of Am11 skeleton2001.mdl I asked earlier what was wrong with the skeleton model, but now I find there something else happening. What is: I have my boneless model, I take the skeleton2001.mdl, I copy all bones and relationships to my own model, and discovered my feet to ground attachment were gone. So to go around this I take the skeleton2001.mdl and copy my own model.mdl into it. Then I have feet bound to the ground. ( I know eventually what this cause was reminding of hand targets and so on.)

What now fails is a roll action of the left forearm. First I didn't realize what it was, then it became a faulty error. It seems the left forearm fails to turn in x and z direction. The right fore arm works just fine. So I couldn't find no difference between them what could cause this error. So I blamed the skeleton2001.mdl for it, untill lately I discovered the skeleton2001 works fine. It is something that happens by importing the new model into it, although it has no bones. Fortunately something in the relationships causes the left fore arm to turn into x nor z direction.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Madfox
typo

[Madfox]

Here is the file if it is for better understanding.

cage.zip

[robcat2075]

The zip has so much nested stuff in it can't figure out what to load and it doesn't have anything named "Virgil" in it.

Is "Virgil" what we are wanting to fix?

 

[Madfox]

I had embedded and zipped th file. Maybe a bit encapsulated. Here is a simpeler file. It is very straight forward. Why won't left forearm not turn as right forearm?

Scotty.zip

[robcat2075]

Hmmm... my expectation of FK arms (which is what these arms are in by default) would be that the forearm should only turn on the Y axis because the elbow only turns on that plane.

When any portion of the forearm rolls on the z axis it would be because it is is following z-axis rotation of the hand, but you would not manually turn the forearm itself on the z axis.

And a forearm would never turn on the X axis.

That is what I have come to expect of FK arms because that matches what our anatomy does.

Is the 2001 rig supposed to do that?  I'm not sure.

Do we have any 2001 rig experts here?

[Madfox]

The skeleton2001.mdl does have that atitude, before I adjusted the model.mdl. My suspicion is that I took a step too far.

If I use an already encapsulated model ( ie. a model that is allready been imported into a skeleton model) will hold this properties.

Here is the  skeleton2001.mdl. You can turn and change the fore arms all directions after the bicep bone is  moved. 

2001_Skeleton.mdl

[robcat2075]

When I try animating the stock Thom model, which seems to have this rig, it behaves as I expect... forearm rotation on Y only.

[robcat2075]

When I have some time, like if the world shuts down due to an epidemic or something, I'll try the whole 2001 Rig process from start to finish and see what happens.

I've been using TSM2 forever, so i'm not highly familiar with the 2001Rig.

[Madfox]

Where can I find TSM2? Is it a free plug in that I can use?

[robcat2075]

It's in the rigging forum.

To use it you will need to install v15 first, install TSM2 to v15, and use the TSM2 functions in v15. The character you rig will still be usable in later versions.

You can run v15 with your current subscription

The TSM2 installer includes a manual and intro tut.

 

[robcat2075]

If you should try that, let me know if it works for you.

[Bobby]

I try to put ResoluteWalk (action from Hash CD) to scotty.mdl and then re-Rig use "Skeleton_myFinger_full_ok2" (the same as 2001_Skeleton except Fingers Rig).

Clip: ScottyResoluteWalk and the project.

scotty_2a.prj

[Madfox]

Yes, that looks good Bobby! I haven't tried examples with excisting pose files yet, because I'm entangled in the rig setup. Just when I had the whole model rigged and all I came up to that silly point I couldn't use the three circle movements with the fore arms. I feel its sounds strange to say that forearms won't move in three directions. Or that only one moves right and the other won't. Where it comes to is that in the original skeleton2001 they move both and in my model not.

I have tried earlier to make this clear, but something in my explenation did not make it clear. So I went through the whole stage of rigging the boneless ( and relationship less) model and came to a severe crosspoint.

I did stated before so let me be short. When importing the bones group of the skeleton2001 to my model everything is fine, except the feet targets gets lost.

After Robocat explained me how this is done with a four legged cat and four feet targets I invented how to make this work.

The major problem starts when I import the skeleton2001 relation group. I ususally do this as the manual tells me to do, but when I examined my model (although without feet targets) acts precise the way it has to do. (two 3d moving forearms) So as soon as I add the relationship group to the model my left forearm starts blocking in x and z directions.

Pff, that took a long shot to trace the problem. I suspect there is a twitch in the relationship group that makes it so. Further it is a usefull group for hand clatching and all. But in a way they are easily to add after wards.

Then thanks for the TM2 model. It is much more delicate then I suspected, but with the same straight learn curve. First of all my Amv11 won't work under windows7. It will install but then lacks all excistance. The start icon in the programm fills have a directory but the start icon won't appear. So I copied the TM2files from v11  to my updated version v17 which crashed spontaneously. Only way to go on is version16 which does. Made my first model, attached all splines, asked the machine to count my rigs, and ended with a scrambled model. Nevermind.

The streak emitter you made Robocat looks good! I finally learned how to use these sprite and streak emitters, as they caused much trouble before I saw that you can shut off the emitters so modelling the choreography is easy. My god, I waited years before I saw when they are off locked the choreography goes just fluwently. (me donkey!)

Here a small example of a streak and sprite emitter. And it took almost four and a half houre to get me 20 sec VGA format. 

 

[robcat2075]

Quote

So I copied the TM2files from v11  to my updated version v17 which crashed spontaneously.

Remember, I said you have to use TSM2 in v15. It was compiled for v15. It wont' work in v11 or v17

[Madfox]

Ah, would it be that bad? It installed well on Amv.11, which in my case I think worse, because v.11 won't start up on WIndows7. Just the folder with the usual subfiles. So I couldn't use it anyway.

The Amv.16 handels the file well, so that's no problem. 

Just got a bit scatter with my attitude like what to do with a AM v.11 I can update to Amv.12 or a AMv.16 that updates to AMv.17. I would not even try it out because I can catch AMv.15. Is the compatibillity realy that tight?

Almost makes me want to downgrade.

 

[robcat2075]

the TSM2 plugins only operate in 32 bit A:M

For me, v15 A:M is the last version that TSM2 works in.

It appears to load and run in 32-bit v16, but it only works properly in v15.

You only need to be in v15 when you use the plugins. You can save your model and do CP weighting or smartskinning in a later version.

Remember there are 3 parts to TSM2

1. Builder. This makes the geometry bones. Do your fan-boning/smartskinning/CP weighting after Builder and save your work.
2. Flipper. I don't use this. I use A:M's MirrorBone plugin (in later versions) instead, to mirror bones and weights. If i added any fan bones with constraints, I use MirrorConstraints to mirror those. Then save your work again.
3. Rigger. This hides the geometry bones and adds constraints and controls. Save your work again.

 

You don't have to use TSM2. If you prefer AM2001, that is OK.

[Madfox]

After tracing out the forearm error skeleton2001 is good enough for me on 32bit.

TM2 is always welcome to explore other ways to do it even in amv16. 

Great it is a free plug-in now. 

 

[Madfox]

Quote

And a forearm would never turn on the X axis.

That is what I have come to expect of FK arms because that matches what our anatomy does.

Is the 2001 rig supposed to do that?  I'm not sure.

I wanted to return to the subject of the 2001skeleton.mdl and the "error" I thought to experience. It looks as if the right calf bone does turn in the x y and z axe. The left calf does only turn on y axis. Aside of the fact if an arm should turn only on y axe (mine does three, beside backwards) it seems strange that the right bone does and the left won't .

I searched somewhat deeper in the relations and came to the point the statements of both calf bones are different. The right has an euler box with a + sign, and the enforcement is 100%. The left has an euler box without a + sign and an enforcement of 0%.

I have no idea why these are different, changing them in the same parms won't help the blocking of the left arm.

[robcat2075]

You mean "forearm" not "calf", right? The Forearm is the part of the arm below the elbow.

a "calf" is in the leg. It is the lower leg, below the knee.

[Madfox]

Yes, I'm aiming at both forearm bones. Why does the left one on screen (right forearm) bend in three directions and the right one on screen (left forearm) only on z axe?

I accidently wrote calf bone,  but I meant forearm.

[robcat2075]

Is that the 2001 rig after all the installation steps have been done?

[Madfox]

It is the 2001skeleton.mdl itself, as I have downloaded.

[robcat2075]

In Thom, which also has the 2001 rig, neither Euler constraint has a +

It appears that default for a newly made Euler constraint is for enforcement always at 100%. In an ON/OFF Pose it will be 100% at both ON and OFF.

The plus sign shows up when a key frame has been made on the enforcement channel to make enforcement be other than 100% at either ON or OFF.

I believe the two 0% in the 2001 skeleton is an error.

There are several ways to fix this. One is to open that relationship for editing, Open the Pose Slider window, then set the enforcement to 100% for both IK Arms Setup ON and IK Arms Setup OFF.

 

 

[Madfox]

Well.., that took me more research than I'm used to, but as this silly, stuborn error didn't chase me after all my selfmade models I would have let it at rest.  Just found the TMRigger wizard and that has a lot in commen. The thing I had to do was to open the relations directory as you said. In the forearm relations the Euler limits for the right forearm (the right one) is : minimum y -179. The left forearm Euler limits were : maximum y 179.

After changing left forearm Euler limits maximum y 0, and use : minimum y 179 , the model responds as it should. Now both forearms change in all three directions. I think it is an "error" in the 2001skeleton.mdl I had from the start. I remember seeing correckted 2001 rig models, but I had only the one I had downloaded. 

The file should be uploaded correckted. As I'm saying.., I had to double check to see how I did it.

---

In relationship => Rig relations => Setup Relations => IK Arms relations :

Euler limits => Enforcement => 100% :

Turn to 0% .

It seems as turning the maximum y to 179 in the number screen is not enough.

I had to manually drag down the poseslider from the start in the percentage window down.

left forearm => Euler limits => LockOffsets :

Turn Mininum Y => -179 to 0.

Turn Maximum Y => 0 to -179.
 

---

 

Last things always slip away.

 

Am2001skeletonrig_coreckted.zip

[robcat2075]

The AM2001 skeleton distributed with v19 has those limits corrected, although not the enforcement rate.

[Madfox]

I use AM16.0c so v.19 is not my area. I upgraded  to v.17 but it tends to crash more often.

Yes, I wasn't sure first time. The enforcement can  be typed by number, but the start position of the percentage stays on 100%. It has to be forced to zero. Maybe reason why this  nestled error stayed that long hidden. I had to repeat the handling twice before I understood the failure.