Bow Music

[thumperness]

Kind of doing a version of Pipe Dreams but using archery.

 

I'm kind of making it up as I go. Will the bow(s) be wood or metal?

 

We'll see as the months go on.

 

I have started school again https://www.cs.clemson.edu/dpa/msindpa.html

 

Most of my time is being taken up with work, school, and Uber, so I am not sure how much time I am going to be able to devote to this.

 

Attached is the beginnings of a bow. Next comes bones and movement.

[robcat2075]

Good to see you back again, David!

 

Don't miss the Fall Image Contest!

[thumperness]

So here is the way I'm supposing this should work. If this does not make sense, let me know.

• One Model of the bow and the contraption that is going to be loading, aiming, and firing the arrows
• One Model of an arrow

Once created, I can figure out how fast I can fire and reload and still have it look good. This will determine how many copies of the machines and bows I will need to keep up with the music.

I can set the tempo of the music, so I'm sure there's a formula I can use for the action cycles.

[robcat2075]

If you made an action for one arrow-load-and-shoot cycle, you could drop an action onto a model for every note.

[thumperness]

Right...Does it make sense for the bow and the 'machine' to be the same model? What I am doing is overthinking the process. Guess I need a high level view of the or a process.

 

• Do I make the bow in model? (including bones)
• Then make the machine as a separate model?(including bones)
• Bring them both into an action window to animate the action?
• Then bring the models into the Choreography and drop the action on them?
• Are constraints added in the model window? if not...which window?
• etc...

I just don't want to get most of the way through a process only to find out I should have or could have...

 

Thanx in advance for your patience...

[robcat2075]

I think it is easier to make the action if the bow and arrow are in the same model

[thumperness]

So, in the Project Workspace, I see the Model > Groups.

 

Can I use the groups to separate the parts of the 'model'? ie the Bow. The Arrow, The Shooting Machine?

 

How do you put stuff into it's own group?

[Rodney]

Rather than Groups you may want to use Action Object to combine separate Models.

That is done by drag/dropping models into an Action.

You can start with an empty model to activate the Action itself and then drag/drop the models/rigs in that you need.

 

As for Grouping itself... just select the Control Points and name the group in the Project Workspace listing.

That allows different parts of a Model to be organized.

[thumperness]

Is there a way to add control points to an existing group?

[robcat2075]

While the group is selected, SHIFT-select new points.

(You can removed CPS with ALT-select)

[thumperness]

Remade the string so that it would render.

 

Now to bone. (That sounds odd)

[thumperness]

So...I've animated the bow. (It's in the TestVideo folder)

 

It looks like I am not pulling the middle of the string.

 

When you look at the model, it is 6 foot tall and the bend in the string is at 3 foot. (Seems to be the middle to me if my common core is correct)

 

Is it an optical illusion, or am I not seeing something correctly?

Music Bows.zip

[robcat2075]

As i look at it, it seems to be bending right at the "middle" CPS are, which lines up with the notch that I presume the arrow goes through. In that sense its rendering correctly.

However, it looks like the string gets shorter when it is pulled and perhaps the bottom half of the bow is bending more than the top.

 

For the amount of flex in the bow, i think the string needs to be drawn farther back so that it is not shorter than it was at rest.

[thumperness]

Understood.

 

The issue I am having is: As the 'Bow String' Bone is being rotated, the CPs, that are in the middle of the string, want to rotate up with the bone instead of coming straight back.

 

So I am playing a balancing game of bending the bow and moving the string back. (Make sense?)

 

I'll play with it as is and see if I can get a better result.

 

Good thing is that I only have to do it once.

 

Thanx

[robcat2075]

Understood.

 

The issue I am having is: As the 'Bow String' Bone is being rotated, the CPs, that are in the middle of the string, want to rotate up with the bone instead of coming straight back.

 

 

Don't use a rotating Bone. Use a Translating bone instead

 

Drop this version in your AM Project folder and look at the Action...

 

Bow Music02.prj

[thumperness]

It appears to work exactly like mine? Not sure what the difference was supposed to look like

[thumperness]

So I remade the bow so it is symmetrical. (Played with the copy/flip/attach)

 

Reboned and am pretty happy with it except for one thing. So far...

 

In the Action and the Chor., I can get all parts of the string to Peak. (No bendies)

 

It is kind of intermittent though.

 

When I close A:M and reopen the project, most of the sting does not peak anymore.

 

When I rendered, it didn't peak most of the string.

 

why?

Music Bows.zip

[robcat2075]

I see the problem. None of the models are embedded. When doing experimental stuff I think it's always better to save the complete environment with everything embedded at each increment. so that you can always go back exactly to a previous state.

 

try this...

Bow Music03.prj

[thumperness]

OK...So the differences I see are:

• You boned the model different than I did
• The way you boned the String...Is that what you meant by translation bone?
• I'm assuming you embedded everything.

Is the fact that you embedded everything why the string now peaks? If not, what did you do to make the string peak? (Is there somewhere I can look and tell which CPs are peaked or not?)

 

Besides being able to go back to previous revisions, What are the pros and cons of embedding everything? Can you talk a little about the theory of embedding and when to and not to do it?

[robcat2075]

OK...So the differences I see are:

• You boned the model different than I did
• The way you boned the String...Is that what you meant by translation bone?

 

You were moving the CPs by putting them on the end of a rotating bone. it's hard to not have rotation that way.

 

If what you want is straight motion, moving a bone in a straight line is easier.

 

 

• I'm assuming you embedded everything.

   

  Yes

If not, what did you do to make the string peak? (Is there somewhere I can look and tell which CPs are peaked or not?)

 

 

you can select a CP and see whether the Smooth or Peaked button is on, but it's usually visually apparent anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

Is the fact that you embedded everything why the string now peaks?

 

I don't know. They were always peaked for me.

 

 

 

 

Besides being able to go back to previous revisions, What are the pros and cons of embedding everything? Can you talk a little about the theory of embedding and when to and not to do it?

 

 

Lets say I don't have anything embedded in myproject01.prj and I make a change to a model and a change to an Action and a change to a Chor and then save my PRJ.

 

The PRJ gets saved but even if i gave my new PRJ a new name like myproject02.prj the model and the action and the chor will get overwritten on their old filenames.

 

Now suppose my animation doesn't behave right anymore or it crashes A:M for some reason when i go to render. Is it the model or the action or the chor?

 

The previous versions of those are all gone now and even if I reload the previous myproject01.prj, it's just going to load the new overwritten versions of the model and the action and the chor.

 

There is no way for me to go back to what I had before I made the three changes and try doing just one at a time to see which is the fatal mistake.

 

It's easier to just have everything embedded and save

 

myproject01.prj

myproject02.prj

myproject03.prj

myproject04.prj

myproject05.prj

 

and know that each of them is totally independent and has everything* it needs to be like it was when i saved it.

 

This takes up more HD space but HD space is cheap these days and you can delete the old versions you don't need anymore when you finish your project.

 

 

 

How often do i need to go back to a previous version? i would say that on e very substantial animation project I've done I've needed to do this at least once to solve a problem.

 

Or sometimes, I just don't like a road I've gone down animation-wise and would like to reset to some thing I had yesterday without having to figure out which keyframes are the bad ones.

 

 

The only time i haven't worked with fully embedded PRJs is in a situation like "Tin Woodsman" where I made none of the models myself and would never modify any of the models myself and I only animated with models loaded from the TWO repository. Then I just saved incremental Chors for each scene. When someone changed a model on the TWO repository it could have been a problem, but fortunately it never was.

 

 

It's easier to work in embedded PRJs

 

*Remember that images and video files are never embedded. You need to be conscious of how modifications you make to those may affect previous versions of your work if you ever have to go back.

[thumperness]

Thank you Rob.....again quite cogent and to the point. Luv it.

[thumperness]

Rather than Groups you may want to use Action Object to combine separate Models.

That is done by drag/dropping models into an Action.

You can start with an empty model to activate the Action itself and then drag/drop the models/rigs in that you need.

 

So I tried this. I can get 2 mdl in an action, but I can't figure out how to physically place them where I want. Translate, rotate, etc...

 

Am I supposed to do this in Action or Chor.?

 

I'd like to have the bow with the box, in an action, so I can see how far to move the box's arms and whatnot.

Bow Music2.prj

[robcat2075]

If you have time for Live Answer Time we could look at this live.

[thumperness]

What tam I missing?

 

I am trying to make the bow and the box part of the same model?

 

But when I try to move and place the bow/string, the bones do not move w/ the bow. Why?

 

My theory is:

• to make the box and bow as one model.
• Make a couple of actions that I can drop on the model once it's in the chor

Once I have the model in the chor, will the action 'work' regardless of the orientation of the models?

Bow Music3.prj

[robcat2075]

When you are in a model window and are in Bones Mode, you can move bones and mesh together by choosing a bone and then holding the CTRL key while you move the bone.

 

You have to use the standard Translate, Rotate or Scale manipulators for that.

Moving a bone this way moves the bone, its children and their mesh.

However, there is no single bone that is parent to everything in your Bow.

 

If you want to move the bow in the Box model it will be easier if you add one bone to be parent of all Bow bones and use that to adjust the mesh.

[thumperness]

OK...To make sure I understand...I need to add a 'parent' bone to each model.

 

Then in either the model or action window, if I select the parent bone and hold down CTRL, I can then move the model w/ it's bones.

 

I'll play with that.

[robcat2075]

The CTRL thing is a trick that works only in the model window.

 

Normally in Bones mode you DONT want the bones to carry their mesh around or you'd never be able to get a bone in the right place without destroying your model.

The CTRL lets you temporarily move mesh with bones in the model window.

 

In Actions and Chors you don't use CTRL. Bones will always carry their mesh with them.

[thumperness]

OK...I have added a parent bone to the Bow and I can now move it fine in the action window. Next comes the Box/Machine.

 

Then, I play with constraints as one of the arms on the 'box' is going to have like a hydraulic piston motion.

 

Hurricane vacation is over now. So back to work and school for me. I may slow down on this some, but I will get it done.

[thumperness]

See Attached

 

Just to make sure I'm still moving forward.

 

Now I'm working on it's actions.