Memory problem (and lighting discussion)

[Simon Edmondson]

Having some trouble with the Happy Families project and don't know if its caused by the Hardware, a mac mini running OSX 10.85 with 4Gb of RAM or, have I corrupted the file somehow ?

 

It started with the last scene ( the one with the hard edged lights ) which was taking up to three hours to render some frames, 20 minutes the next, with variations inbetween.

 

Started on the final scene and have manged to get the first pass at the animation done so, while waiting to review that, thought to setup the lighting properly. Introduced the set model but, every time I tried to render a quick test it crashed AM.

 

That was in V17.

 

So switched to V18 and tried that. With the same result,

In V18 however it flashed up this message about memory.

 

I tried again, but without the set included, and it rendered OK.

 

Could somebody kindly suggest a cause and, if possible, a solution to the problem?

I embedded all the files, except the maps and saved that out in V18 if anyone has the time to look at it..

I don't know if its the computer playing up, me, or something else?

thank you for your time

simon

 

New Happy Families 001B.prj

[robcat2075]

What size are you rendering at?

 

I think you could render at half your typical size and not lose any details.

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you for your reply. I'm trying to render at 1080 HD as thats the size used throughout ( sometimes scale down the clips on the forum to save size but thats usually a QT post production change ).

 

The curiousity with this problem is that, it only seems to crash when I activate the corridor model in the cho. If I render the figures its ok but figures with the set is a no go. If I try to render with set but no figures, it crashes out too.

 

Thinking it might be the corridor model that had become corrupted, I rebuilt that from scratch, taking out all reflective surfaces. It renders OK in the model window but not in the cho.

 

If i select 'shadows only' for the corridor. The frame renders without problem.

 

If I deactivate the corridor, it renders OK

 

But, as soon as the corridor model ( of which ever variant ) is active, the render reaches 40% then crashes out.

 

I'm contemplating saving out the animations as actions from the cho and redoing the cho with them but may have to indulge in some displacement activity first !

regards

simon

[robcat2075]

I downloaded your PRJ. Could you save and post a preset file of the render setting you are using?

[robcat2075]

Here's a 1080HD 9-pass render with the corridor ON that takes 2 minutes 28 seconds, but i don't know your render settings.

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you very much indeed for your help.

Here is the current preset.

No multi pass.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if its a hardware problem, but I'm not sufficiently tech savvy to know.

regards

simon

NHF S12.pre

[Fuchur]

In windows you could open the task manager and see, if and how much RAM you are using. (I am sure there is something equal for Macs)

If it is always (more or less) the same, than it could be a hardware problem.

For instance one of the RAM pieces could have a problem then.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Simon Edmondson]

Gerald

Thank you for your help. There is an option called Activity Monitor and that seems to suggest normal life.

I followed up Robert's suggestion about render presets by using an earlier one that worked and, it seems to be working.

At least, its not crashing. But, the shadows aren't so good. Will have to try some experimenting.

 

Why would the render preset cause the program to crash when one model is included but not others ?

regards

simon

[robcat2075]

This takes 3:48 with your settings.

 

 

 

I see that you have AO on in the render settings but there is no Global Ambience selected in the Chor and no Ambience Occlusion % set. You won't get any AO effect without those. However, there will be almost no AO in a scene like this that is not exposed to outside light.

 

There are several settings that seem very odd to me, like the spot lights set to 180° wide and set to only 30% darkness.

 

Do you really want this very flat, no-shadows result?

 

 

Just to experiment, I removed unseen parts of the ceiling and walls so the Global Ambience could shine in to create something a bit more like broad "waiting room" light. I turned off the three spot lights.

(I set the surface color of the glass to black so the reflection wouldn't be brighter than what is reflected.)

 

I think this gets better illumination on the down-turned faces and a more realistic presence to the room lighting overall. This took 35 minutes to render.

 

 

 

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you very much once again. That looks a lot better than mine. Much better sense of desolation. Could you send me the preset you used please ?

I didn't know you could do that with the glass. A much better result. I modified the corridor to take out the doors and glass and did a render overnight but I much prefer the look you've got there.

Thank you.

regards

simon

 

Ps

Could you remind me of how AO works.

You told me a few months ago, I wrote it down but can't find my notes. Sorry about thtat

[robcat2075]

Hi Simon,

 

For AO you need to have the Choreography>Properties>Global Ambiance Type not set to "None".

 

-"Global Color" is the simplest choice.

-This basically enables an all-around environmental light. The more that a surface is blocked from that all-around light the darker it will be.

-You can adjust the environmental strength with "Ambiance intensity". When other lights are in the scene it is often necessary to set the Ambiance intensity to less than 100%

-"Ambiance Occlusion" controls how dark the occlusion shadowing effect is.

 

 

You also need Render to File Settings>Options>Ambiance Occlusion>ON

-Occlusion Sampling is a quality vs. time choice. Higher means less speckling but longer render time. I often set it to 10% for test renders just to see the AO effect more quickly.

-Transparent AO (Slow!) allows the all-around rays to pass through patches that have some Transparency set.

 

 

I figure an institutional hallway like yours is probably lit with wide fluorescent lights on the ceiling. Putting holes in the ceiling approximates that. I also put holes in the opposing wall to simulate the light from the ceiling that would normally bounce off that wall onto the characters.

 

I just added a few CPs in the middle of splines to disable patches in key areas.

 

Here is your edited PRJ so you can see the altered model and settings.

 

New Happy Families 001B_RCH 01 AO.prj

 

And the preset

 

CorridorWith AO.pre

 

There are other ways to get this effect without actual AO that might render faster but this is easy to set up and more predictable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robcat2075]

I think lighting is the hardest part of getting pleasing 3D results.

I'll note that even in live movies where they have the advantage of instant AO all the time, and walls that will bounce the illumination from the lights that exist in the world of the movie, they still usually have to cheat a bit with extra fill lights that are unseen and off-camera.

 

example

 

 

 

In A:M we have an advantage that our light bulbs can be anywhere and we don't have to try to hide them from the camera.

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you very much indeed for your help. Very much appreciated. I did post a reply earlier but it seems to be missing. The UK election must be getting to me. I'm trying to follow up with the AO and have written everything down, Digitally and by hand, just in case.

 

I am a big fan of lighting and spend a lot of time watching that in films and TV shows, oftentimes more than the 'content' of the show or film itself. There is a danish TV show, known as "The Killing" in the UK, which was fascinating in that regard and the way it used colour. Although it was filmed in colour most of the scenes would have very little colour in them apart from that of the flesh of the actors, except for one item of intense colour. For example there was an interrogation scene were the main character is in a police room talking to a suspect. They are both dressed in blacks and greys, theres no colour in the room, except for a very Red fire extinquisher and an instruction sticker next to it on the wall. The Lighting was in a film noir style with sharp areas of shadow and light. The X files used to do a simiilar thing were the only colour was in Gillian Anderson's hair and Duchovney's suit. I'm hoping to do some stop frame work in coming weeks to play with lighting and models..

I'll stop there before getting too carried away.

Thank you

simon

[robcat2075]

Variations on the theme...


Here is a render using just three lights carefully adjusted, no AO. This takes about 1 minute

 

 

This is the three light render with SSAO (Screen Space Ambiant Occlusion AKA "fake AO") set to try to approximate regular AO shading. About 1 minute.

 

 

 

This is the SSAO effect "only" About 1 minute (It should be nearly instantaneous but my graphics card doesn't seem to do SSAO right.)

 

 

 

 

This is a flat toon-only (no lines) render (1 minute)

 

 

 

This is SSAO Only + Toon only composited with "multiply" in Photoshop (A:M could do this too in a Composite Project)

 

 

 

 

Here's an AO-like strategy. This uses a light traveling on a spline over many passes to simulate large, broad lighting, but no AO, no stationary lights.

 

100 passes takes about 5 minutes.

 

 

 

256 passes takes about 12 minutes