Disney Animation Lectures

[Tom]

Just discovered these lectures by legendary Disney Animators Eric Larsen and Ham Luske..

 

Thought others might be interested-

 

 

http://www.animationmeat.com/notes/nineoldmen/nineoldmen.html

 

Tom

 

[Rodney]

Thanks for posting the link Tom.

 

I've definitely seen those and they are well worth being brought back to our attention.

I need to read them all again that's for sure.

 

I have seen many of these in different formats and I've long wanted to put some of them side by side for purpose of comparison.

The three primary ones I've seen are:

 

1. Those you've linked to at animationmeat.com

2. Copies variously annotated, reorganized by Don Bluth

3. Copies found on other sites (some of which appear to be early copies distributed at Disney. As most of these are copies of typed notes they are very likely Eric's originals.

 

There is a fourth source for Eric Larson's notes that I plan to get. Eric's notes look to be collected in the biography of Eric by someone that worked with him daily for many years, Burny Mattison. The book was just recently published in June: http://www.amazon.com/50-Years-Mouse-House-Disneys/dp/1941500471

 

I'll guess that the notes in the book will be much like those you've linked to but I'm hoping that Burny has added some illustrations and other pertinent material to round out the details and to reveal more of the man behind the notes. The notes are especially of interest because Eric was one of the primary mentors, instructors. recruiters of the current masters of traditional animation that are now beginning to publish books that delve into what they experienced and learned.

 

Another book of interest would be Andreas Deja's 'Nine Old Men' which is said to contain many examples of sequential art (by those nine artists/animators) never before seen in print.

 

 

So much gold to be mined in these resources!

 

Thanks again.

[Tom]

Glad you enjoyed the links...... and those are terrific sources you are pointing to!

 

I wonder if Pixar has a corresponding version of the Nine Old Men in their organization?

 

Tom

[Rodney]

I wonder if Pixar has a corresponding version of the Nine Old Men in their organization?

 

 

 

Most definitely. PIXAR's core creatives are often referred to 'The Brain Trust' and function in a similar way; one might argue that the brain trust is a more modern ad hoc version of Disney's concept of 'Nine Old Men'.

In addition to usually being one who sits in with the brain trust (often as silent facilitor ala Deming method/Six Sigma) PIXAR co-founder Ed Catmull's book 'Creativity Inc.: Uncovering the Unseen Forces that Stand in the Way of True Inspriation' reportedly goes into considerable detail on who that trust is comprised of and how they work to push animation projects forward at PIXAR. If I recall correctly Ed devotes one chapter to a session where the brain trust goes through their process.

 

(Sigh. Yet another book I need to get)

 

One thing that has been a bit disappointing with regard to many of the resources available to us is that while a lot of folks like the resources available to us these days few seem interested in discussing the wonderful contents found therein. This is like filling a mansion full of gold, precious jewels and all the stuff of dreams and then being found living somewhere far away from that splendor in a cold dark and empty shack.

[Roger]

 

I wonder if Pixar has a corresponding version of the Nine Old Men in their organization?

 

 

 

Most definitely. PIXAR's core creatives are often referred to 'The Brain Trust' and function in a similar way; one might argue that the brain trust is a more modern ad hoc version of Disney's concept of 'Nine Old Men'.

In addition to usually being one who sits in with the brain trust (often as silent facilitor ala Deming method/Six Sigma) PIXAR co-founder Ed Catmull's book 'Creativity Inc.: Uncovering the Unseen Forces that Stand in the Way of True Inspriation' reportedly goes into considerable detail on who that trust is comprised of and how they work to push animation projects forward at PIXAR. If I recall correctly Ed devotes one chapter to a session where the brain trust goes through their process.

 

(Sigh. Yet another book I need to get)

 

One thing that has been a bit disappointing with regard to many of the resources available to us is that while a lot of folks like the resources available to us these days few seem interested in discussing the wonderful contents found therein. This is like filling a mansion full of gold, precious jewels and all the stuff of dreams and then being found living somewhere far away from that splendor in a cold dark and empty shack.

 

 

What sort of discussion are you looking for? I don't generally participate in that sort of discussion since I figure I don't really have anything to offer.

[Rodney]

I don't generally participate in that sort of discussion since I figure I don't really have anything to offer.

 

 

You always have something to offer and what you have is valuable. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

First and foremost you have your experience.

Even lack of experience can be valuable (I'll save that discussion for a rainy day but consider well what we learn when we try to teach something we've learned to someone else. We often find we come up short and wonder why something we feel we know isn't being communicated/shared/reciprocated effectively.

 

Forgive the slight off topic but what came to mind by way of response can be expressed by quoting from the "Tin Woodman of Oz" script where Woot the Wander has adventured into Tin Castle and is being questioned by Tin Woodman about the experience he has gained while adventuring.

 

(We join the scene already in progress in the Throneroom)

 

1_03_32 TIN WOODMAN

I suppose in your travels you have become very wise.

1_03_33 WOOT

No, Sire… In fact, the more I know, the less I realize that I know.

1_03_34 SCARECROW

Ah, yes. Well, if it’s any help… I’ve found that… learning is easy, young Woot. Begin with asking questions.

1_03_35 WOOT

Oh, I do ask questions! Constantly, Sire!

1_03_36 TIN WOODMAN stands listening.

WOOT (OS)

I’ve learned people don't like having them asked.

 

Related to this topic, what I'd think would be prime discussion material would be what Eric Larson (an acknowledged expert in animation) thinks about a given subject and how we (of varied experience) can relate to that especially in light of differences between traditional hand drawn animation and computer animation. Of interest would especially be how we might apply the thought and theory in our current efforts.

 

If I recall correctly the notes/lectures by Ham Lusk are more specifically related to identified work (many of the lectures being post mortems on earlier films to determine what went wrong, what went right and how best to proceed to achieve better results with the next project. While still factual Eric's notes try to cover a wider spectrum that incorporates relative approaches with doses of animation theory.

 

Throughout it all of course we see many and varied opinions; all valuable and... some of it even implementable!

[Roger]

I'll have to review these on the train, at least it will be time well spent. I can't exactly animate on the train, but at least I can feed my mind with something animation related.

[Rodney]

One reason I like to re-read documents like these is that the concepts layering in again and again over what I've learned since last reading the words. It's amazing to me how words can convey such depth of information especially when those words are applicable and appropriate. In other words, some words may fill the role of temporary labeling until such a time where we understand how a more appropriate word will fit. It's like putting together a puzzle where some pieces appear to fit only to discover later that it wasn't the right piece of the puzzle... although it looked pretty good for the moment... another piece turned out to the perfect fit.

 

This layering of understanding and fitting into place is a continuous process until we find ourselves out of pieces. Of course we don't have to look far before we see a whole world full of puzzles to piece together still waiting in the wings.

 

One example of the layering effect of learning can be illustrated by something that I just picked up from reading one of these lectures again. This short paragraph on Anticipation is straightforward enough and yet I found myself realizing there is a significant gap in my understanding of the larger picture. Here's the quote:

 

ANTICIPATION:

Anticipation is a vital part of timing. It tells an audience that something is about to happen. It adds definition and life to an action. It sets up the rhythm.

 

(emphasis added)

 

All of this is standard stuff right?

Anticipation is vital to timing... yeah. Got it. Thanks for stating the obvious Eric.

Anticipation prepares the audience to see or experience what is about to happen. Yup. Makes good sense to me.

Anticipation helps to define personality as it shows how a character will perform (act and react) in specific situations. Say on, maestro I like where this is going!

Anticipation sets up the rhythm. Um, now, hold the phone for a second... I don't think I fully understood the concepts being expressed here. What have I missed???

 

...and so learning reignites the old flame of interest in animation all over again as the basic conceptualization of 'anticipation sets the rhythm' churns 'round and 'round in my brain and tries to find a better fit with my current level of experience. I am now more appropriately prepared to receive new information (which Eric provides a look into in his subsequent paragraphs.

 

 

I'll have to review these on the train, at least it will be time well spent. I can't exactly animate on the train, but at least I can feed my mind with something animation related.

 

 

It sounds like you are taking good advantage of your situation.

I'm sure it seems counter intuitive to many people but I find it good that we often have constraints (resistance) that interfere with our desire for constant/continuous productivity.

It allows us time to reflect upon things outside our primary focus that are waiting in the wings that might have escaped our attention; the adventure of the details.

As consumers of information we like to get to the core/focus of the message as soon as possible but there is a wealth of opportunity laying just outside that fixed point of interest within and without the range of our peripheral vision. And when we compare/contrast those with what we thought was our focus to be we begin anew our adjustments on our internal calibrations as we anticipate the realization of our expectations.

[Rodney]

I see that Eric's book '50 yeats in the Mouse House' was just plugged at the On Animation website.

I'd like to think that someone saw us discussing the book here in the forum.

 

Yet another reason for highlighting and discussing the content of resources is that it validates (one could say value-dates!) other the content of other resources. For instance, with regard to the subject of Anticipation, we read in TaoA:M the following:

 

 

Anticipation And Overshoot

If the viewer is watching another part of the screen, it takes about a fifth of a second (6 frames) after a new object moves before the viewer can refocus on that movement. Essentially, the viewer misses the beginning of the movement, so you, as the animator, should make a preliminary movement before the main movement to attract the viewer’s attention, called anticipation. These are the clues your character gives the viewer that something is about to happen. An example of anticipation is drawing back a character’s foot before a big kick; by the time the viewer is watching, the leg will begin its swing. Other Examples:

 The character’s eyes may follow a pestering bee before a swat.

 The camera pans to a flower the character is going to sniff.

 A baseball player winds up for a hit.

Movement that is important to the narrative especially requires anticipation, and for emphasis, the movement should overshoot. An example of overshoot is an arm stretching too far while pointing a finger, then snapping back.

 

 

This delay in the timing of primary action can be seen for its importance in allowing time for the audience to see what is most important.

Therefore we begin to realize that 'just any 'ol animation' won't work. We need to set up our animation with respect to the members of our audience; of whom is said should be considered the most important character in our story. If we haven't allowed enough time in our animation for our audience to follow our story then we've failed in our effort to communicate. The principle of 'Clarity' suggests we must always strive to communicate clearly with our audience.

[Rodney]

It seems like more than a few books have been collecting these various lectures.

I see that the older lectures ramping up into Disney's production of 'Snow White' etc. are now collected in Don Hahn's new book: Before Ever After

 

These would be the lectures by Bill Tytla, Ham Luske and others that transformed the simpler approach to animation into it's modern day artform.

At 448 pages... it looks like a lot of the lectures are in the book.

 

I'll guess that Eric Larson's lectures (which I assume are not in this collection) were mostly from that latter time where he was leading the training program as the older Disney legendary animators turned the studio over to the next generation (just prior to 'Little Mermaid' etc.). Eric's lectures are featured in his recently published autobiography '50 years in the Mouse House' that I linked to in the previous post.

 

The underlying premise of the book is that it takes (and took) more than just talented artists to produce high quality animated features. It took intensive planning, dedicated study and hard work.

 

 

Yet another book to put on my want list.

Decided to go ahead and order.

[Rodney]

I saw someone post a link to this DIX (Disney Index) site and note that it contains all these various lectures and more. Will be useful for those that want to explore:

 

http://www.dix-project.net/lectures

 

I'm hoping that what the book has that the copies of the lectures lack is the images that are associated with the analysis. During the presentation of these lectures the artists/animators watched film and used whatever necessary to illustrate their points. For instance, I assume the lecturer used projectors to draw over examples where they felt poses could be strengthened... or to better illustrate line of action... etc. etc. Much as folks are doing today on the internet.