Maka Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Hi, Hopefully someone can help me with this one. I've created a " Mountain " model that has a large number of decals to create it's surface appearance. Everything looks great in the modeling and choreography windows, but when it renders, there are areas that the decals are not visible and I'm getting a solid color. I've tried reapplying and adding new, but those areas still will not show the decals. I'm rendering at 1440 x 1080 and using one pass. I've tried multi passing, but get the same results. HELP ! Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Hi Maka, can you post a still of the finished render? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Normals are facing in the right direction right? In general not. A problem but just to be sure... *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 That was my first thought too. Seeing a render would help though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 15, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 15, 2011 If you can post the model and the bitmap, someone could try it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hi, Hopefully someone can help me with this one. I've created a " Mountain " model that has a large number of decals to create it's surface appearance. Everything looks great in the modeling and choreography windows, but when it renders, there are areas that the decals are not visible and I'm getting a solid color. I've tried reapplying and adding new, but those areas still will not show the decals. I'm rendering at 1440 x 1080 and using one pass. I've tried multi passing, but get the same results. HELP ! Thank you. Thanks so much for your responses. Here is a bitmap image showing the blank area toward the middle of the model. Decal_Test0.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 15, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 15, 2011 Thanks so much for your responses. Here is a bitmap image showing the blank area toward the middle of the model. Something is corrupted about that BMP, i can't open it in anything. Post it as a jpg and well all be able to see it faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Thanks so much for your responses. Here is a bitmap image showing the blank area toward the middle of the model. Something is corrupted about that BMP, i can't open it in anything. Post it as a jpg and well all be able to see it faster. Hopefully, this one will work. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 15, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hopefully, this one will work. Thanks Now I see it! does that area correspond to a whole patch? or is it not related to a patch? If you don't mind posting the model and the decal I'd be curious to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hopefully, this one will work. Thanks Now I see it! does that area correspond to a whole patch? or is it not related to a patch? If you don't mind posting the model and the decal I'd be curious to try it. Sorry it took so long, the original file is huge, so I wanted to reduce it enough to make it easy to work with. These should be all the decals involved. The appearance is made up of a large series of combinations of these images, so I don't think this problem area was one patch. Please let me know if you're missing anything. Thanks again for your help. Mountain_Top.mdl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 15, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 15, 2011 Please let me know if you're missing anything. Here are all the files I had to click thru as not found when i tried to load the model mamane1_v2_256.tga TAFbarkfront.TGA TAFBarkSide.TGA FLeaf.TGA ohia2_v3_256.tga MissionPositive-Gray.png Mountain Lightest Color.jpg Mountain Red.jpg Mountain Mix 1.jpg Test 7F.jpg Mountain Mix 2.jpg Mountain Mix 4.jpg Mountain Mix 3.jpg Mountain Mix 5.jpg Here's what it looks like when I'm done. Something is missing. when you're putting up decals with a model it's best to put everything in a zip so the names don't get changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I didn't download this Robert, but how are the normals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Please let me know if you're missing anything. Here are all the files I had to click thru as not found when i tried to load the model mamane1_v2_256.tga TAFbarkfront.TGA TAFBarkSide.TGA FLeaf.TGA ohia2_v3_256.tga MissionPositive-Gray.png Mountain Lightest Color.jpg Mountain Red.jpg Mountain Mix 1.jpg Test 7F.jpg Mountain Mix 2.jpg Mountain Mix 4.jpg Mountain Mix 3.jpg Mountain Mix 5.jpg Here's what it looks like when I'm done. Something is missing. when you're putting up decals with a model it's best to put everything in a zip so the names don't get changed. Sorry, those other decals are on the lower section of the mountain, so I didn't think they were relevant, but there is an attachment area that is part of the model file that was downloaded, so it obviously had a large impact. The foliage files are out of the Hash CD library, and should not affect the issue, and the MP logo is a separate piece that also shouldn't have an impact, but please let me know if you need them anyway. Thanks again. Decals.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Sorry, those other decals are on the lower section of the mountain, so I didn't think they were relevant, but there is an attachment area that is part of the model file that was downloaded, so it obviously had a large impact. The foliage files are out of the Hash CD library, and should not affect the issue, and the MP logo is a separate piece that also shouldn't have an impact, but please let me know if you need them anyway. Thanks again. Decals.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 16, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 16, 2011 Here's what I get when I load and render. i cancellled out of all the TGAs. Does this look like what you get? The top is a Q render, the bottom is a Shift-Q render. The missing spots on the top correspond exactly to certain patches. So... what's different about those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I got the front side to render okay, but lots of orange patches on the back. I was also missing a few decals from a "Hawaiian plants" directory and some bark textures I think. But the front side rendered just fine. Maka, does this line up with what you were seeing? I can't tell exactly what that earlier image you posted was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 16, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 16, 2011 As i paw through it I notice you've got zillion decals on this thing. I recall on "Tin Woodsman of Oz" there were a few models that had trouble with that sort of thing. It may be necessary to simplify this somehow. If I "Bake Surface", which consolidates all the decals into one big decal, and delete all the original decals, the blank area in my previous render goes away. Mountain_TopX.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 You guys are the best ! Rob, yes, the solid brown patch that you show in the Q render is what I've been getting no matter what setting I used. I've not been able to figure out why this section would be any different than any other. I have a few other small areas in another part of the mountain that are doing the same thing, but not near the scale of this one. Please forgive any stupid questions I may be asking as I'm still fairly new to the animation field. First question is - What is a Shift - Q render ? The result you are showing is what it should look like. Second question - It sounds like you would recommend to " Bake Surface ", is that correct ? Gerry, how did you get the front side to render properly ? The back of the model is incomplete at this time as it isn't being used for the particular choreography I'm working on. So I'm just trying to make sure the front renders correctly. Thank you both again for taking the time to help with this. I've been pulling my hair out. It's really wonderful to have this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 16, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 16, 2011 First question is - What is a Shift - Q render ? The result you are showing is what it should look like. Press Shift-Q and right-mouse-button a bounding box around the area you want to render onscreen. Second question - It sounds like you would recommend to " Bake Surface ", is that correct ? It seemed to help things... Please forgive any stupid questions I may be asking as I'm still fairly new to the animation field. We're glad you didn't go away mad! Welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Thanks again Rob, I'll be working on it tonight. I'll let you know how it goes. All the Best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 16, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 16, 2011 That's a good looking mountain you got going there. Be sure to show us what it's all about sometime. After you "Bake Surface", look up the location of the files in the properties for the new images in the images folder. I'm sure there's a rule is about where they get saved, but I haven't figured it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Thanks Rob, That's just the top, it's been quite a time consuming project. I actually have boulders across it as well. I tried the " Bake ' and eliminated the decals, and after rendering the blasted brown patch was gone, however the quality of the appearance was greatly reduced. So I'm still searching. If you happen to think of anything else, I'd love to hear about it. All the Best. Well I found a solution. I eliminated all the decals in the problem areas and then came back over it with new decals. A couple of areas are still giving me problems, but for the most part it's working. Would still be interested to see if there was an easier option though. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 16, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 16, 2011 If you hol down the shift KEY when you do Bake surface you can opt for higher res on the new decal. Change the res number from 8 to 9, 10,11... it's like a power of 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hi Maka, I'm glad it's working out. I didn't do anything different from Rob, just downloaded the .mdl file, put all the decals in a folder and loaded the model. I was working on a Mac but that shouldn't make a difference for this kind of thing. The images I posted are both Shift-Q screen renders. There are probably better/easier ways to achieve what you're doing here but as with all 3D work, you learn as you go. Just come back here with questions *before* you start tearing your hair out. That's the second secret to doing 3D. Also, I'm not familiar with baking the surface; heard of it but never done it. Just do whatever Robert tells you! Another thing to check, as was mentioned above, is to check your normals, though on this model they're fine. In the modeling window, hit Shift-1 and you'll see little yellow hairs pointing out from the center of each patch. These show the "outside" of the patch as opposed to the "inside". That can sometimes cause problems with decals showing up. EDIT: btw you can flip the normals by selecting the patch with the patch selection tool, right clicking and selecting "flip normals" from the contextual menu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Would still be interested to see if there was an easier option though. Thanks again. Yes -There are definitely easier ways to do this. To apply 1 decal (1 stamp) to entire mountain: 1) select those patches that you want to decal, hit the hide so only these patches are visible (in this case I chose the whole mountain), go into top view (5 on numpad) 2) drag image to modeling window, choose decal 3) scale the image to cover the entire mountain 4) choose planar method, hit apply, stop positioning 5) change the repeat count if the scale of pattern is too large (I changed from 1 x 1 to 10 x10) I also included in my project an example of using BitMap Plus material to cover the entire mountain (instead of a decal). When you are looking for a more irregular (non specific) pattern, and to easily cover any surface - Bitmap Plus is great. 1) New material > right click on attribute > change type to > plug-in > kci:dnd > Bitmap Plus 2) choose image to use in the material 3) adjust size and other properties to taste You will need to render to see effect of Bitmap plus: either shift Q (quick render, continuously updates on screen as you change properties), or Q (uses current rendering settings on screen, produces 1 image, does not continuously update), or render to file (uses current render settings, makes a file). Bitmap plus won't show in the real-time display without doing one of the render methods Decal_versus__BitmapMaterial_Mountain.prj Edited August 16, 2011 by NancyGormezano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maka Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Again, thank you all so much. This is GREAT information. Robert, thanks so much for going into the detail on the " Bake ". I couldn't figure out how to specify a quality factor. I'm going to give that a try before I continue with the remove, redo thing. I'll let you know how I fare. Also the Shift Q is fabulous, I've been rendering everything to verify what was working. This will be soooo much faster and easier. One quick question on " Bake "- Is it possible to bake a specified potion of a model, or is it an all or nothing thing ? Gerry, thanks for the info on the normals. I'll definitely be checking for that in all future work. And believe me, I know now what a wonderful support group this is, and hopefully thanks to all of you, I can keep what's left of my hair. Nancy, I can't wait to give your information a try. This sounds like exactly what I need to do when I finish the back. Question - The front of this model is the upper portion of a mountain that is part of a scenic photograph that sits directly behind it, so matching the appearance between the model and the photo is crucial. That is the reason there are so many decals. When you are doing that kind of matching, would the Bitmap Plus be workable, or is it better suited for the applications that don't need specific placements ? THANK YOU, THANK YOU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted August 16, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted August 16, 2011 One quick question on " Bake "- Is it possible to bake a specified potion of a model, or is it an all or nothing thing ? It's all. You could copy a part of a model to another model window, bake there, then import the baked model back into your original model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Question - The front of this model is the upper portion of a mountain that is part of a scenic photograph that sits directly behind it, so matching the appearance between the model and the photo is crucial. That is the reason there are so many decals. When you are doing that kind of matching, would the Bitmap Plus be workable, or is it better suited for the applications that don't need specific placements ? I'm not sure I am understanding what you mean by matching the "appearance between the model and the photo is crucial". If the final product is to be a still image (or animation) rendered in a chor where the camera doesn't move and the photograph is used as a rotoscope (background image) which contains the image of the mountain top, then you can probably make the top of the mountain model a "Front projected model" (shortcut to top mountain model/options/front projected target =ON). If this is not what you want or mean then can you post the photo that you are trying to match (as a jpg) - and show us where the mountain top is in the photo, and what you mean by "match"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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