TheSpleen Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I am doing a personal project, nothing important but something I want to do. one of the main characters is a Bear. I been up since lastnight making the bear and I am actually quite pleased so far. I know how to rig a person but I am kinda lost on where to start with this dagnabit bear! I really want to do it right the first time so if anyone would please give me your ideas on rigging him I would be very grateful. I am not asking a full tutorial LOL. Just some ideas and maybe a basic layout I can begin with. I just dont want to rig him all up and then have to redo the whole dagnabit bear. any other creative ideas are welcome too. I respect all the talent in these forums and that is why I ask your opinions as I grow in skill. I will have less questions as I learn. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 The legs are the only thing not attached. I looked at other stock characters so I did like they did and put them on seperate figuring the bones will keep em on. Body and head are all one piece. I also think he would be awesome with hair particles but a nightmare to render. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 That's looking great! He's got alot of character. You're improving fast. You should consider connecting his legs to his body. From what I remember The Setup Machine does characters with four legs and it's now FREE for AM: TSM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 23, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yes TSM is your most likely bet for doing a quadruped. I recommend you rig your crazy man character with TSM first so you get a feel of the TSM workflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 wow! TSM is very cool! One problem though I found is way too many bones than I need. Can I delete a bone and the next bone in line will stay in the heirarchy ok? just resize it and it should work ok? Other than that TSM rocks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 ok I rigged him and everything looks good but..............it would be way too hard to animate him the way the bones are working now. Could anyone maybe have a look at him for me and maybe tell me the problem? there is no way rigged like he is now I can use him, yet he does have a full rig. so it is a mistake by me somewhere. thanks. BEARMODEL8.mdl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Did you use the rigger plugin yet? TSM comes with a flipper, builder and rigger functions which you access through the plugins options. You have to put the hxt's into your plugin first though. It's all detailed in the manual....which I'm sure you've studied endlessly. The flipper would have saved you some work already but you may need to re-do it anyway. I'd also advise you move the cps up so the paws are on the XZ azes. Think of that plane as the ground and the Y axis should go through the center of the body. It makes working with the model bone (for walking along path splines) much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Did you use the rigger plugin yet? TSM comes with a flipper, builder and rigger functions which you access through the plugins options. You have to put the hxt's into your plugin first though. It's all detailed in the manual....which I'm sure you've studied endlessly. The flipper would have saved you some work already but you may need to re-do it anyway. I'd also advise you move the cps up so the paws are on the XZ azes. Think of that plane as the ground and the Y axis should go through the center of the body. It makes working with the model bone (for walking along path splines) much easier. Yes that was the TSM plugin. still too many bones I think. I deleted about 6 of em already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 No. You don't need to delete any of those bones. They aren't the bones that should be animated with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 No. You don't need to delete any of those bones. They aren't the bones that should be animated with. ok then I am very confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 24, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 24, 2008 I'm looking at it right now. There are no constraints so I know that TSM Rigger hasn't been run yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 I'm looking at it right now. There are no constraints so I know that TSM Rigger hasn't been run yet I used the TSM. I also saw it had 3 different plugins, do I need to run them as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Summary of Rigging with TSM 1. Run TSM Builder 2. Run TSM Flipper 3. Assign Geometry Bones 4. (optional) Run TSM Rigger 5. CP Weighting and Fan Bones 6. Smartskin 7. Mirror Bones, Weights, Smartskin 8. Run TSM Flipper and Rigger That's an extract from the pdf you can download from the first post here: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32815 You need to do every one of those steps, except step 4, which is only there to check steps 1-3. That is for rigging bipeds, but for quadrapeds it's the same process. And DON'T delete ANY bones - they are all there for a reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 24, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 24, 2008 TSM Builder puts in one side of the "Geometry bones". you position those to fit your model (and dont' delete any) TSM FLipper copies those and to make the other side TSM Rigger hides all of the above and adds bones you actually animate with. hold on .... I'm looking at the bear right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 well I started from scratch and thought I did everything right this time but alas no. ran builder,ran flipper,set geometry,ran rigger,and model now has no controls at all. shrug. Caroline I dont know about cp weights yet and I was going to do smartskin on eyelids once I had him rigged up. I still have alot to learn sigh. (but I am learning things like this make me learn) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 well I got his head moving! wrong bones I am sure but his dang head moves! I enjoyed seeing it. He is still a quadroplegic though <_> Bearfacemove.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 24, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 24, 2008 Now this is NOT a great job of CP assigning I've done. This is just the quickest and dirtiest and fastest to get something moving. I haven't really studied the TSM quadruped rigs so I'm not entirely sure about best practices with them. That said, here's a quickie: BearStandsUp.mov the bones you see in that mov are the bones TSM makes visible after you run Rigger. They are NOT the bones you attached CPs to after you ran Builder and Flipper. Those are hidden and controlled by the visible bones. If you want to fine tune the CP assigning, use the BEARMODEL_11backlegfixed.mdl in the attached zip and then run TSM rigger on that to get a rigged model. SpleenBear.zip I changed one TSM option from what you had chosen originally: I chose the "short neck" instead of the "IK neck" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Now this is NOT a great job of CP assigning I've done. This is just the quickest and dirtiest and fastest to get something moving. I haven't really studied the TSM quadruped rigs so I'm not entirely sure about best practices with them. That said, here's a quickie: BearStandsUp.mov the bones you see in that mov are the bones TSM makes visible after you run Rigger. They are NOT the bones you attached CPs to after you ran Builder and Flipper. Those are hidden and controlled by the visible bones. If you want to fine tune the CP assigning, use the BEARMODEL_11backlegfixed.mdl in the attached zip and then run TSM rigger on that to get a rigged model. SpleenBear.zip I changed one TSM option from what you had chosen originally: I chose the "short neck" instead of the "IK neck" SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 ok thank you tons. obviously I am a complete idiot. I ran the rigger as you said and like what I did before only the mouth control works. the rest of the animating bones move but do nothing at all. Obviously I am just not understanding something. And I am now feeling completely stupid. Obviously you made it work. am I supposed to assign cp's to those animating bones too? they move but nothing happens. only the mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 even the model marked rigged does the same thing. do I perhaps have a bug? or something needs turning on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 24, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 24, 2008 1 - load BEARMODEL_11backlegfixed.mdl. it has the CPS assigned the way I left them but hasn't had Rigger run yet. You could change CP assignments here if you wanted to but for now, dont' do anything, go to step 2 2 - rightclick in the modeling window>Plugins>wizards>TSM Rigger 3 - a window will come up with a list of systems you could choose to rig or not rig if you wanted to. Leave them. just click "Rig" 4 - TSM Rigger will do it's thing and leave a set of bones visible like the one in the movie. 5 - in the properties window for the model turn on User Property "TSM COnstraints" 6 - save this model under a new name. I really , really, really... 1000x really... recommend you go thru the instructions that are installed in your TSM folder to learn how to rig their sample biped character so you understand the TSM workflow. Trying to do a quadruped when you haven't done a biped is asking to get off on the wrong track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 24, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 24, 2008 i forgot... 7 - now you can drag this model into a chor and animate with the visible bones. If the mesh doesn't move with the visible bones, select the model in the chor and look at its properties window. User Property "TSM Constraints" should be ON. It should already be on since you saved teh model with it ON in step 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 The TSM constraints in properties solved it! Thank you! And after fighting with all this on a quadruped I bet a biped will be a breeze hehehehe. Thanks again Robcat. I am sorry to be such a problem. I had an idea it was just something not turned on. and sure enough that was it! Cudos to you for all your effort! All I have left now is to make his eyes work and I am sure I can do that with out a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 24, 2008 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 24, 2008 Now that I look at the Bear some more, i think when running TSM Builder that the "biped" option should be selected for the front legs on the Quadruped page. Those would be jointed more like human arms and would be more like bear front legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Yep I think I will do that. Good Idea Robcat. I am gonna rework a little bit of modeling on his legs too where they join the body, and work the eyes. then redo it. After lastnight it will be a breeze now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Update on project: I am 15 seconds into a 3 minute video. So far this is probably the best learning experience so far. My animation timing is improving but not yet perfect. I am having to model alot of props, so more experience there. Learning camera work and now know how to instantly jump from shot to shot without panning. I am learning that some characters lack a movement sometimes so I may incorporate that into my own bone systems so that wont be a problem again. I also made my own slide poses a few times so more practice there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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