ANN-ime Girl

[Muff]

O.K. Heres something to give an Idea of the possibilities for modifying existing work from OBJ files. These are 2 geometries from the Poser 6 program. These models can be purchased at numerous places on the internet. Mainly DAZ3d. Its important to know that the "descriptions" of the models on any site must INCLUDE "GEOMETRIES", which are in OBJ format. Otherwise you will just get a Poser specific format. But this goes to show that re-inventing the wheel isnt necessary? I dont know if its considered "cheating" or not? It all depends on how extreme the modify is. Considering this fact though: these models when imported reach around 26,000 splines/vertices. Ive managed to widdle them down to within AM's standards (at least eliminating 3/4 of the mesh size to whats pictured above. It probably takes the same amount of time to create this from scratch as is does to modify one of these pro-models that can be purchased. Its no easy task! But this is about 3-days of modding. Hoepfully itll be done within a week.

[CRToonMike]

Nice exercise, Muff. As far as distributing it goes, I feel that any "mod" falls under the 'derivative' work clause in the DMCA; and because of that it's still copyright infringement, imho. Although I'm not a lawyer, my attitude is when there's some question, don't do it. To my eyes, it looks like this figure is based on the Aiko Model from DAZ3D.

 

While you (as an individual) can mod something you purchased (again, if the licensing agreement allows) and use it in a animation/still. But as far as distributing a derivative work, you'll have to get permission from the owners of the model/object.

 

As you wrote, it takes as much time to modify an OBJ as it does to create a new model in A:M; I would just create a series of drawings to use as rotoscopes in A:M and make a model from those. And since that model will be based on your orginals, you can do with it what you please.

 

I don't mean to shoot down your good intentions, but I don't want to see anybody get into (possible) trouble.

 

Again, I am just an artist who has studied copyrights and am not a lawyer, so if I'm offbase, I apolgize in advance.

[Muff]

Im pretty much thinking the same way you are. But Im just wondering how much is a fine line? I did tear this model apart, to where it is re-splined and basically a major overhaul while keeping proportions similiar. Once I get rid of all similarities of the original, I wonder if re-worked model isnt basically something new, though it started out as something totally different? Im definately not a cheater, and would never use this method for $$gain. That I know, just isnt ethical. THough, had I not mentioned Poser6, and finished this model before this posting; Im sure I could "get-away" with the "new" modification and no-one would really be able to tell otherwise? All "Polygon" traces/structure has been removed. But I do tend to remove all original "Flow" of design. But your insight is probably/most likely correct. But what would constitute the "fine-line" to this approach other than resemblance (dont know how to spell that word). And a quick "smart-ass" reply would be: Do your own from scratch. Yeah, understood. So if I were to delete spline-by-spline and then re-spline what I deleted; and do this to the whole model... or even "lock-Out" the original model and respline/model to the original in 3d? Im not argueing any point here... just wondering how much of re-inventing the wheel to make it "rounder" is to be considered. This is basically becoming a talking point by now.

[Muff]

For anyone wanting to do this type of modding, Heres the skinny on my own thoughts above and the legal issues:

 

QUESTION:

Is it legal to distribute a derivative of a DAZ model?

 

ANSWER:

DAZ models may not be used to create derivative, second-stage, or further stage derivative 3D models which can then be distributed in competition with the original DAZ product (see Section 6 of the DAZ End User License Agreement).

 

At DAZ, we like to make the trade of our files, and add-on files, as free as possible. We realize that the ability for someone to diversify and improve upon our products actually makes our products more valuable, as long as these modifications are distributed in a way that doesn't circumvent the need to purchase the original DAZ product. Problems arise when someone uses our work as an unfair advantage to compete with us. As a result we have prohibited these types of actions in the DAZ License Agreement.

 

Creation of an illegal derivative model may involve reverse engineering, de-compiling, and/or disassembling. Occasionally modelers are unaware that "derivative works" refers to more than just incorporating portions of DAZ geometry in a new mesh. (A method frequently referred to as "frankensteining.") "Derivative works" also refers to most of the methods that may be used to create a "new" mesh around an existing model. With the continuing evolution of new tools and methods for modeling and distributing models, it is impossible to explain specifically every possible way that a model can be used illegally in the creation of a new product. To demonstrate the range of ways this can occur, however, here are a few examples:

 

One of the simplest ways to create an illegal derivative model is to convert a DAZ model (typically OBJ format) to another non-Poser format, and distribute that. Beyond this, a DAZ model may be altered by adding and/or removing geometry in order to create a derivative work. Even more difficult for most users to recognize, but still detectable to trained modelers, are methods involving tools that can create a derivative mesh without transferring the polygonal layout of the original. Many of these methods can result in a mesh which seems legitimate, often with no vertices coincidental with the original. These types of tools/methods may include: NURBS/poly conversions, subdivision/smoothing or triangulation operations, de-resing, shrink-wrapping/fitting and randomization operations.

 

The distribution of models created using any of the above examples is strictly prohibited, and any of these methods will result in a mesh that is still subject to DAZ's copyright.

[jon]

so the short answer is forget poser meshes and start splining, right? ' ' )

 

-jon

[Zaryin]

What I used to do is use Poser models as rotoscopes and model it all in A:M. I'm pretty sure that you can do whatever you want with a model that was created entirely in A:M. I could be wrong though.

[Muff]

Well, the short answer is that this type of modding must be carefully done. Anyone cant be stopped from doing this type of thing as "they" realize; so "they" conclude that there are ways of telling what is a copy of an original - but should someone do a fairly reasonable (careful) job of modding "their" models; it can in no way give/or be in/ any competition against "their" models that were originally modelled. Nor can it compare in "looks" to their models. So it can be done, but one must be very careful as to how much of the original model is still intact when converted and modded. So hopefully when Im done with this model, Ill display a comparison to all of the original material, to the "Mod" that I finish with. But I do know that this model is blown as far as my testimony on this thread. So its all about exploring possibilities. I just wanted to know the full potential of AM's compatability with other programs. And to be fair, the MODELS produced from the "other" programs out there are more readily available and exceed in all variety than whats available for AM. AM has some very nice models, but only a handful in comparison to whats available in these "other" programs from the net. Did anyone see some of those models available for purchase from particular sites. ANd yes, before anyone says it, 'Well then why dont you go buy one of those "other" programs and be done with it'? Well, because I love A:M more than those "other" programs. And I do "own" those "other" programs. Thats why I wish, (or maybe it is and I dont know it - Im getting the 2007 upgrade when my income tax comes), that the "HUNTER" model was available for AM users. Now that model is what Im talking about!

....I know right now and Ive got this feeling that IM gunna get blasted for this type of talk!! Should have learned my lesson from a previous encounter with my words said on these forums, but I just cant help but love any controversy I exhibit in my explorations of all aspects across the whole spectrum of the universe.

But its all best said by CRToonMike: " Nice exercise..."

[ruscular]

Nothing wrong with admiring someone else work, even if its provocative. I feel that every snowflake is unique and so is every model that you make. I would sometime use a morpher program and take 2 of the model head shot that I like and morph the 2 together and create an interesting new model to try to create from. This way I wont encounter problem of using a particular person to model from for complete descretion or some case a well known celebrity.

 

Now as for body parts. I have created a leg but it had problem for animation. So I find another artist mesh work for the leg and copy it much as I can but conform it to the leg I had shapewise so the animation is better and smoother. The community is good to learn from and pooling the talents of others to increase your own skills.

[Muff]

One ,pretty much final, thing while Im on this whole format kick with AM. Any Plug-In creators out there think that they can tinker with an idea, or even suggest whether this idea is plausable: Seeing how "polygon" based conversions "triangulate" patches - is there any way to create a plug-in that (in theory) can "Kill" or "delete" splines that cross paths with a/the normal? Seeing how "triangulation" simply splits a patch through the middle/center, and a normal is the center; Would this help with such problems when converting?

ANd by the way, I think Im concluding that IT IS BEST just to do your own thing, or at least learn to do your own thing. Ive proven to myself that this is all possible, but in my mind - its just not becoming a rewarding sense of being an Animation:Master! ANother chapter in my journal of 3d madness. So, on to the next chapter....

[Ehiza]

What I used to do is use Poser models as rotoscopes and model it all in A:M. I'm pretty sure that you can do whatever you want with a model that was created entirely in A:M. I could be wrong though.

 

But IMHO you must contact with the model creator to ask him to use those rotoscopes, as the final model will be similar to the original. normaly, as you don´t use any mesh, they give you permision to use the rotoscopes, and the new model belongs to you.