More Decaling woes...

[Slipin Lizard]

Ok, I'm lost here. This is what I know. I'm using about 19 decals. If I add more, they won't show up in the final render. I can switch decals. So, in other words, I can delete a decal, and a different one in a different spot, it will still work.

Here's the strange thing: when I use render lock mode, all the decals show up fine. So I can go past my "limit" and using render lock mode click the screen in choreography and all the decals appear just fine.

 

I am going to try and post screen captures. Assuming I'm successful, here's what you'll be looking at. 1) the model un-rendered. 2). the model rendered using "render lock" mode. 3) the model rendered hitting the "render" button. I've tested this by outputting to a Targa file and an AVI, get the same result. For the last pick, its obvious that there is something up with the white blotchy parts, but also notice that there are a couple of decals missing. They are the white little lines and words that say "ENV" and "GATE".

 

render lock mode:

 

.....

[robcat2075]

I can't identify any specific text on the renders since they are resized down, but if you have a case where two renders of the same thing are getting different results, make an AMReport of it. Include the project and the steps to repeat.

 

As I look at the model, I imagine quite a few of the decals could be combined, but I don't know how they are apportioned now, so it's difficult to make definite suggestions.

 

Any difference if you don't run Photoshop at the same time?

[Slipin Lizard]

The result is the same with or without Photoshop being open at the same time. I've gotten the same result many times over, this last time I had Photoshop open to save the screen captures, but the result was identical to before.

 

If you're curious about the "missing" decal, take a look at the first image. Right where the little pop-up text box is, is where the decal goes missing. You can't see it in the first pic, the pop-up hides it. You can see it in the second and then missing in the third.

 

Thanks for looking. The result is consistent, so how and what do I report to AM? I am abandoning this project for now. Many of the decals are condensed. Remember, with all those labels and stuff its still only 19 decals in all. For instance, all the colored blocks and white segment lines are all one decal. I wonder if that's part of the problem, because technically, all these decals are going "on top of" the main decal of colored box sections...

[oakchas]

SL.

 

I can't see what's missing...Your screen caps are too small and don't enlarge.

 

But, I'm having trouble decaling as well. but I am not losing any decals as yet. I just have a lot of them and need to add more.

[Dhar]

I see a difference in the shadows between the Render Lock & Render only modes. The Render only shadow looks more diffused and the white blotch looks more like a light reflection rather than a missing patch. When a patch is missing the white borders would be more defined than what's in the pic.

 

If you know it is definitly missing a decal then try a close up of the problem area and render it again, maybe also change the camera angle.

[Slipin Lizard]

uh.... we're kinda of going backwards here. I realize its subtle as to what is missing, but put it this way, I could put a HUGE decal on the model at this point and it wouldn't show. In my earlier post, I said I was hesitant to put up a screen capture because how do I show the fact that the decal is "not there". Now I'm getting advice like "if you really are sure its missing".... FELLOWS! I am sure!! Its not the camera angle! Notice the HUGE WHITE BLOB on the far side? That is there regardless of the camera angle. I have tested this using:

-different decals

-different camera postions

-different render settings

-different file types for output

-deleting different decals and replacing them with other ones... its not the decal, it the number. Take one away, I can add one, take two away, I can add two.

 

While I appreciate you're trying to help, this is frustrating. I knew when I rendered out the whole model, someone would say to render a close up. And if I rendered a close up, someone is going to post "show us the whole model". Of course I already tried different camera angles and was only rendering the problem area, same result. This is why I didn't want to post screen captures in the first place, we're talking about something not showing up, so I have to show you "nothing" and you're supposed to see something. If you look carefully, at the second and third pics, all the white information and lines in the middle, between the colored blocks, there are two very small decals missing. To get an idea where, they are hidden by the little pop-up in the first picture.

 

I don't think 20 or more decals is "a lot". Not for 3D graphic work. I tried moving all the files over to a different system, same problem.

[Dhar]

Slipin, buddy I think I can speak for everyone else when I say; we understand your frustration. I don't think there is any CG artist out there who doesn't get frustrated no matter what program they use. But the reason many of us "go backwards" is to maybe, just maybe, possibly see something you may have overlooked, especially when we did not experience your problem.

 

Now that you've clarified it's a decal amount issue, it's time to contact Hash Inc. Send an e-mail to Martin himself if you want to. I have been to Hash headquarters and found them to be the most helpful and decent guys around and very responsive to customer concerns.

 

Good luck

[robcat2075]

www.hash.com/reports

 

zip up prj with needed decals. Include screen shots to show differences. Explain situation.

 

 

Explain/show the circumstances in which decals show and the circumstances in which they do not.

 

draw on screen cap to show exact

 

example of screen cap I submitted, to show exact area of a problem:

[Slipin Lizard]

I'm trying to post both the project file zip, and the PDF file that I made explaining things, but my first attempts resulted in too large a file. Robocat, if you can get the zip, just open the project and from the images try and add a new decal. The project will open with the right modeling window open all ready to go. Hopefully I can post both the project and the PDF. I'll try the project zip first.

Decal_Problem.zip

[heyvern]

The first thing I said when I saw the wireframe was....

 

"WHOA! WHOA! That might be it!"

 

I don't think you have enough splinage for the decals to "stick" to. You only have one gigantor patch for ALL those decals. This... well... theroetically this should work... in a perfect world...

 

... but in reality you may want to increase the patch count so all those decals aren't trying to live on just one patch.

 

If you right click on all of those decals and "select CPs"... they all use the same 4 CPs... well almost all... anyway...

 

I am guessing... I don't really have time right now to play with it... but that is my best guess... I would say... 85% certainty... maybe 90%... room for being wrong in there.

 

[Edit]

 

When you decal a very big single patch... I have found there to be some issues with stretching and distortion... this was ages ago so that might not be a problem any more... but I generallly don't decal large single patches. I like to have at least 2 or 4.

 

Or if you don't want to add the patches... you could just create a giant image for that one patch and stamp once. It is a completely flat patch... so no flattening issues. Do a very large "low quality" render from the top view of what you have currently and use it in Photoshop for placing the images...

 

... that would save a bunch of work. If you planned it right you could stamp the tops of the buttons with the same single decal.... whole thing... one decal...

 

just a thought.

 

Vernon "!" Zehr

[robcat2075]

nice model.

 

I just added a quick sloppy decal inthe lower left. It seemed to stick, I can't see that any thing else has been dropped because of it but I'm sure you'll notice if I missed something small.

 

??

[robcat2075]

I don't think you have enough splinage for the decals to "stick" to. You only have one gigantor patch for ALL those decals. This... well... theroetically this should work... in a perfect world...

 

... but in reality you may want to increase the patch count so all those decals aren't trying to live on just one patch.

.

OK, i tried the gigantor patch and it has trouble rendering my "hi" decal. I bet Vern is right

 

Stil consider submitting an AMReport, the zip is certainly within the 5 meg limit.

[heyvern]

I just did a real fast quicky test and was able to render out the top view for use as placement.

 

I brought that render back in and was able to line it up pretty darn close in a very short time.

 

I then applied this as a decal.

 

The next step would be to use that render and size it up to match the resolution of the other decals and place each one on the big decal (not going to do this but it wouldn't take all that long).

 

Then you just save over top of the original render you used for the decal and BANG! One decal for the whole shebang.

 

I recommend thinking about this only since you may have to reapply all the decals anyway if you have to add splinage. This might make that less of a nightmare.

 

Another tip.. if you use photoshop or something with layers. Save each element on a layer... if it doesn't line up perfectly when applying the decal just nudge it in photoshop and save a new decal.

 

Vernon "!" Zehr

[Slipin Lizard]

You guys are the bomb! Thanks for the effort you're putting in. I too think Vern's onto something, because when Robocat placed his first decal, it was on a part of the model that is not the same four patchers. I'll trace it down later today and let you know what happens.

 

Robocat, I did try make a PDF for you, but I couldn't get the file size down so I could post it, even as a zip. My wife set up a link for me, if you're interested, but you've seen the problem.

 

www.burntlizardmedia.com/postings/problemguide.zip

 

Again, thanks for all your help, and for the tip Vern. I was actually doing that with Illustrator, lining up the decals and then seeing how they work in AM, continuing to adjust in AI. What would be great would be to have the units match in Illustrator to AM, but they don't. That way I could use both the grid features to create one big decal. What I might do is just render out a large file size of the keyboard from AM, and then bring that image into Illustrator to use as a guide. Even if the size is off, it might still be proportionally correct so it would just be a matter of scale. We'll see. I can also go over to Hash headquarters and let them take a look at the file. I live in Portland so its just across the river, in that big old church they bought (pretty cool).

 

Ok, I'll let you know later what worked and what didn't. Thanks for putting in so much effort to try and help me out. And thanks for compliment on the model Robocat!

[heyvern]

Hey dude!

 

You don't have photoshop? You should download the free Gimp application. It has almost all the features of photoshop... it has layers too doesn't it? I am pretty sure it does.

 

The problem with AI is that it is a vector application... there is some funky stuff going on when you export out of it. Plus... it is very hard to crop to the exact pixel dimensions of an image.

 

Try using the "view pixels" feature in AI. It "pixelates" the preview at the resolution of the document... now that I think about it... it might just pixelate to screen resolution... give it a shot anyway... gives you kind of a sample look of how it will appear as a raster image. I use AI sometimes for web graphics and use this to REALLY see what I'm doing.

 

Vernon "!" Zehr