Roger

No, it wasn't a bug.......I didn't know there was a "make five pt patch" button. So, once I corrected some things and learned how to use that.........things started to look a lot better. I don't think I got things perfect, but I do think that the current screenshot I have looks much better. The clay shader I have hides some of the goofy artifacts that are visible in a plain render. Anyway, let me know if this is an improvement. There is one little bit on the front side of the arm that could stand to be tweaked, and I think the underarm is a touch funky (not really a concern--I don't plain on having it visible much) but it looks scads better. Eric2575 thanks again for your assistance. [attachmentid=18476] and another: [attachmentid=18477] BTW I spent the last 4 hours working on this damn arm, I am about ready to go have a beer or blow some stuff up in Quake 4. I think you gentlemen will agree though that that is substantially improved from the other day. LOL

That was exactly the kind of answer I was hoping NOT to hear...... Anyway I am using v12.od

Ok, Here is a wider shot with more of the patches visible. I can assure you there are no hooks in the armpit area, and all the patches down there are 4 pointers. I tried selecting the holes of the 5 pt patch, deselecting and reselecting but I must be doing something wrong because it stays open. First I select them, hit the lock button, and then deselect them. Then I reselect them. Nada. Roger[attachmentid=18468]

How about this then? Ignore the geometry on the left......I detached some points and haven't fixed it yet. I extended that one spline clear down to point A.........and that 5 point patch STILL won't close. There are no other hooks near that patch, so I don't know whats going on. Do you have an idea what may be keeping it from closing?[attachmentid=18466]

Ok, I am battling with this thing again today. I know what constitutes a valid four point patch, and I think I'm getting the hang of using continuous splines, and I know why 3 point patches are bad..... However, I have what I believe to be valid 5 point patches here, and I am not sure why they are not closing off. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance Roger[attachmentid=18464]

Sorry, I was so burnt out from yesterday that I quit around 8pm last night, and I just got back from the gym so I haven't done much with it yet. I hope that I will have a completed model up today. If I futz with the arm for an hour and I don't get any further, I will get it to look as good as I can and just press forward. I'm glad to see that you're interested.

I'm beat for now. I think this is as close as I'm going to get it. I'll leave it this way for now, take a break, do the giraffe tutorial, and then come back to it. Maybe I will re-render the original with the clay shader, see what it looks like and if its not too bad I will stick with that one. thanks to everyone that gave suggestions, I seem to be either not getting something or something is not working quite right. I'll give it another go tomorrow maybe.

Eric tried that already, didn't work. however, I'm trying something else and it seems to be working. crosses fingers I will post it if I can get it straightened out. hmmm ok I think I am making progress.......I may still have creases in the arm pits but that's not bad compared to how it was.

Ok......I think this is about as close as I'm going to get. Might it not be a better idea to start over from an earlier version, before I attached the arm, and make the circular hole out of a continuous spline, reconnect it to the body, and then attach the arm to that? I think that might be the way to go. Just as I get one area ironed out, another seems to need fixing. Its getting a little tedious. I will save my progress so far, and try modifying the hole, to see if that helps. Here is a screenshot of what I have so far, with a clay material applied. [attachmentid=18419][attachmentid=18420] I think things look better, but given the faceting around the arm I think I have the right idea.

I don't think this is quite it yet, but if it weren't for the peaked or faceted look, I think this would be pretty close. What do you think? I am not quite sure why its doing that. I'll take a look at the tutorial. [attachmentid=18416][attachmentid=18417] Ok, I think I just about have it now. I'm cleaning up some more spots, I'll post in a bit.

For this particular one I would add the points to each spline as I go across - dot, dot, dot, connecting all the splines together and leaving the trailing edges. Then deleting the trailing edges. I would not try to hook this, although I think you can hook up to four (or is it 3?), I would not do it in this case, especially if there will be any further modelling 'out" from the flat edge. Ok, I did the first thing you said----it worked perfectly. Thanks. I was going to start pulling my hair out soon. I will just have to make a note of that. This is just one of those things that I need to stick on a 3x5 card and keep it near the computer, so if I forget I can refer back to it-----until its automatic. Thanks again. BTW, I'm not sure I'm going to use this foot, I will probably modify the hand but I felt it was important to know why it was happening. Thanks.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Are you making the crossing spline in add-lock mode, or do you just create one long spline, with cp's at the appropriate spots, and THEN start hooking it in? Or, just one spline w/ 2 cp's, one at each end, and then use hooks to attach the vertical members? Roger

I am confused......by continuous, do you mean that they are 2 unbroken splines that overlap each other? Or are they joined by a hook at that point? thanks

Well, I've got a pic posted of what I'm talking about, the area in question is on the far left. You might have responded when I was editing the post. I guess I will just do the giraffe tutorial today----or I may just modify my hand into a foot and be done with it. But I will have to do the tutorial at some point so that I don't keep running into this. Thanks for the suggestion.

And what can you do to avoid it? I've noticed that in a lot of models that I build, I am getting these problems and I am not sure what I could be doing better to avoid it. I don't think I am doing anything strange as I am building these models, but maybe there is something that I am doing that I am not realizing. Seems to me like I'd have to do a screen capture of one of my work sessions for anyone to be able to tell where I am screwing up. I am probably going to try and do the giraffe tutorial, maybe that will shed some light, however----I was making good progress and would possibly like to have a finished dragon model at the end of the day. help........ Roger For instance, why the heck does this happen? I'm trying to model this foot, maybe not doing it the best way but I decided to delete a bunch of geometry and start over. Well.......I started with all the splines at the end not being closed off, then I started closing them. Instead of getting a nice squared off spline, like I have in the other areas, I get this curved goofiness, where I have multiple splines passing through the same cp (or I would if I started to close off the other open areas). [attachmentid=18408]

Ok, I tried fixing it the way you showed........but I think I made it worse. It was easy enough to delete the bad splines and start creating new ones, however, sometimes the new splines I create look all funky, other times they are curved nice. I know this can sometimes be fixed w/ gamma and bias but I really don't know which to apply and when, its sort of like voodoo for me. I had to create another patch inside the one large 5 pt patch that is created by making the modifications you suggested, for some reason it just would not render closed. I think I may go back to the old version I had, its not quite that noticeable. I would have liked to have fixed it, maybe there is still something I am doing wrong. I have posted pics of the problems I had. [attachmentid=18404][attachmentid=18406]

The anemone looks good, although you should stick w/ the thicker tentacles w/ the tapered tip. There are anemones with thinner tentacles, but they don't look quite like that. The lionfish is pretty good, however the fins are generally longer. There is a Dr. Axelrod's (I think that's the name ) marine atlas which you should be able to get from a library. However.......there are several different types of lionfish, but it looks like you are trying to model one of the volitans lions, which have the longer fins. Looks good though.

Hmmm ok well I guess I will have to break some splines and see if I can't fix that. and yes Eric I will be adding a tail There's a tail stump but I haven't bothered extruding it yet since that will be the last step after I finish modelling the feet, attaching them, and modelling the head and attaching it and then welding the 2 halves of the body together. I should have a complete model within 2 days, I hope. Thanks guys Roger

post a wireframe that shows that area. It might just be my imagination. Ok, well, here it is.........[attachmentid=18375][attachmentid=18376]

Well the indentation of hand to arm is easily fixed...........how would you deal w/ the other thing? Roger

Ok, I seem to have munged up the cp's by the base of the arm/ armpit a bit, but other than that things look ok. I'm pretty happy with the way that I managed to get the hand attached. I think it turned out best. All I have left to attach is the foot and the head, and now that I think I have the hang of things I may change the head slightly. [attachmentid=18354]

Ok, I did a pretty good job of attaching the hand, I need to attach the arm now and so I have to make a hole for it. This is my least favorite part as I have a good chance of screwing up the geometry I already have. I have taken 2 screenshots, one for reference of the way the arm is now, and another with blue lines and dots where I think the new splines and cp's should go. Do you think I am pretty much right on the money, or would you do it differenty? Roger[attachmentid=18351][attachmentid=18352]

Ok, I tried extruding the last ring, I get a new ring etc. But when I try to delete that ring, it doesn't leave any splines behind it just deletes the ring as well as the new patches that were extruded. Am I doing something wrong? Roger Ok, I tried extruding the last ring, I get a new ring etc. But when I try to delete that ring, it doesn't leave any splines behind it just deletes the ring as well as the new patches that were extruded. Am I doing something wrong? Roger Nevermind, I figured out what I was doing wrong. Thanks again.

OK well I answered my own question here----was fumbling around looking for the support number under the Help menu and found Reset Settings, which is what I was looking for in the first place. Anyway, just in case someone else was wondering, that's what it is.

doh.... Thanks pwknox. That made things a lot more clear, and should keep me from having to play "whack a mole" with trying to patch holes that keep popping up. I'm going to try that now. I will probably still do the giraffe tutorial, after I reinstall AM ( not the best way of resetting the tools>options settings, but the only way I could find that would work) I would have wasted all day though trying to do it the way I was going to do it. thanks again Roger