Roger

Ok - this is what I have so far and is more or less how I did things the last time. However now I am working with like 10 points on the bottom ring, which is going to make for some wierdness attaching these legs.

Yeah, I guess they do and that's the way I had it the first time but I just couldn't get it to look right. But now that I think about it, this is going to look worse. Last time I did this, I had put 2 holes for the legs on the bottom of the bird, then closed things off w/ 5 point patches and then extruded the legs out. It looked ok, but there was something funky about it. Do you have any suggestions?

It seems to be just this model. But I haven't tried anything else yet. I think what is causing it is the splines on the chest, because it was doing some funky things with those (the ones that ended in hooks) - so I have gone back to an earlier model with the extra splines across the chest. I can always get rid of them later. I am having a heck of a time deciding on how to put the legs in - I'm posting a screenshot of how I'm thinking of hooking them into he rest of the model. What do you think? Actually, I think I got it right the first time, for once. I just made the hole for the leg and it looks good. Going to try extruding the leg out and see how it looks - I'll post in a bit.

It seems to be just this model. But I haven't tried anything else yet. I think what is causing it is the splines on the chest, because it was doing some funky things with those (the ones that ended in hooks) - so I have gone back to an earlier model with the extra splines across the chest. I can always get rid of them later. I am having a heck of a time deciding on how to put the legs in - I'm posting a screenshot of how I'm thinking of hooking them into he rest of the model. What do you think?

yes, that's it. although I suppose when you do the other side that might as well be a CP instead of a hook. Slide it to about half way between the other splines. I'm working on cleaning up my penguin model still, and every time I try to do a copy/flip/attach now, it is causing AM to crash. Do I need to go back to an earlier model? Or start over even?

Here- is this what you were getting at?

So carry the one above through, and cut the one that I have going through currently off short? I'm a little confused.

Ok, that looks a little better I guess. Still a bit on the funky side, but I gues I can live w/ it. At least this is eventually going to have a clay shader applied to it, so I guess it doesn't have to be perfect. I still am trying to get that "crisp" look though. I guess I just want the geometry to look nice, regardless of the surfacing that is eventually applied. I know no one but me will notice, though. What do you think?

Robcat, Making some adjustments to my penguin, I used some hooks so as to not carry the splines all the way across the chest (as you suggested) but it looks a little funky. They did not want to attach at the points that would have made for the straightest lines. What do you think? I can't use hooks any earlier in without messing up the 5 point patches right where the flipper attaches to the chest. Roger

Yeah, I think you're right. I may need to take another look at that. I am not sure but I think that spline that makes up the front of the ankle may end in a hook, which may make it tough to adjust. I'll have another look at it tomorrow.

Ok - thought everyone might like to see an update of the body - I think it looks much better than the old one. I have been working on this since about 1pm CT and my brain is fried. Going to take a break. What is the etiquette regarding WIP posts? I really want to start a new one w/ my tentative title as the subject, since it will be easier to find when searching. I know I have like 4 different WIP threads going, I may put links to the old ones in the new one but I want to consolidate everything in one thread. Thanks to everyone that has helped.

Ok- I don't think this looks too bad. I used 5 point patches near the shoulders and hips, I think it looks ok - not perfect, but then what is? I think it will be easier to animate than the old quad leg setup. Posting a screencap, let me know what you think. Roger

Hello, decided to rework my dragon model as I lost backups - and I wasn't happy w/ it to begin w/ anyway. I am ditching the quad legs since I think it will be easier to animate. I also have been doing some of the tutorials in my spare time to fill in the gaps in my knowledge, and modelling is getting easier - at least, I am having an easier time figuring out how to keep splines continuous when joining limbs to the body. I have just about got his leg attached, and think I can finish the holes w/ 5 point patches - however, I don't think AM is crazy about having 5 point patches adjacent to each other, and that's causing some problems. I can put a 4 point patch between them, but then I'm having to carry the extra splines all the way down the leg --since I can't seem to get a solid patch w/o doing that. I am posting 2 pics, let me know if you have any ideas. Roger

Here is the penguin after the cfa (but w/ no legs right now) I verified that the splines down the center are a continuous. However, does anyone see anything that jumps out as being obviously bad (too much/ too little detail in the wrong areas) ? The flippers seem wrong to me, like maybe they're not wide enough and there are too many cross sections. I still need to model eye sockets, a beak, legs/feet, and a tail. Thoughts on a beak? I was thinking just a simple, solid beak, since this character doesn't say anything but maybe it would be better for me to make an actual hand-puppet type beak. Anyway, things are coming along.

I don't know that this is the problem but in the interest of good splinesmanship that center spline shouldn't divert down the leg. That should be a spline that continues under the crotch and back up the back. Fix that first and see what happens. Yeah, I'm not sure why that happened. I made the body by extruding a circle, then when I got a rough penguin shape, went back and cut it in half so I could model one of the legs as and then CFA as opposed to trying to get them to match. I have another version of the penguin but it has no flipper, and I'm not happy w/ the legs, and I'd have to do a CFA anyway to get the flipper on the other side once I model it. I am going to try deleting the crotch as you suggested and see if that handles the continuity issue. Roger

I am working on a penguin now, I have one half the way I want it but need to do a copy/flip/attach and despite help from some of the forum, it just does not seem to be working. I think the problem might be that the spline that makes up the vertical cross-section is not one continuous spline---I have posted some screencaps of the geometry to illustrate (feel free to point out anything else that might cause issues) How do I go about fixing this? I would have started a new WIP but thought I'd go back to an old one. I would prefer to start a new one and consolidate everything under it but I guess I'll just use this one. -Roger

Thanks for the comments: The current penguin I have posted is a bit dodgy. The one I am working on now looks a lot better. I somehow managed to fix the 5 pt. patch problem, not quite sure how I did that but the damn thing fills in now so I'm happy. I think I got the one eye just a little higher than the other when I was throwing it together, so I don't think its the angle. I will be sure to post the better-looking version when I get it done. Johnl3d, thanks for the penguin model. I don't think I will use it, but I would like to take a look at it for reference to see how you solved some of the issues that I am struggling with. It may be a big help in that respect. I am having a hard time getting the legs/feet to look right now. Thanks again for the comments. --Roger

I have decided to attempt a unibody model for the penguin, with the exception of the head which is just going to sort of sit on top of the "neck". The leg came out ok, it doesn't look great but it will do. However, I am having a problem w/ 5 point patches. I seem to remember there being an issue w/ 5 pt patches where if they are too close together they won't work right. However, I have 3 in close proximity and haven't had any problems with them. However, the last one I need to close off won't close off. The ellipse in the center is the start of the penguin's flipper. Any ideas or suggestions as to what I should do? If I can't get this to work, I am just going to model a flipper separately and have it just sticking out the side, seams be damned. I thought about running another ring of splines around the bottom of the flipper hole to turn those 5 pt patches into 4 pointers, and then doing the same with the top (although there is no problem up there, I'd just be doing it to be consistent. ) But then I would have the problem of too many splines crossing at the bottom cp of the flipper socket. I have included a screenshot. Patches w/ yellow x's are rendering correctly, the one circled in red is the problem patch. Roger

And yes I know I still have to add feet and texture it, but in terms of just a rough model, what do you think?

Ok well I am taking a break from rigging and I decided to model the other main character. So, here is a quick and dirty penguin: From my penguin image googling, I think I got the head a little too big and they have two stubby little legs, so I need to maybe fix that. But, not too bad for about a half hour total. What do you think? Also, anyone know if there is a way to rename a WIP thread? I'd like to change this thread to the working title for the film, rather than go and create a whole new thread. Roger

OK I am jumping back in with this, but I am having some problems. Its been some time since I was last working w/ AM. I have opened a new chor w/ my rigged ( admittedly poorly but I am working on that) model and am trying to create actions. Once I have the new chor open, I import the model then go the File > new > action. However, when I select the bones to start moving them around, the geometry does not follow. The splines are also a light gray. Am I missing a crucial step here? Seems like I am. If someone could please send a post of what I am doing wrong, I'd appreciate it. In the meantime, I am going to consult the manual. Thanks Roger

I have to echo Rodney's sentiments here. If I had been steadily working with AM since I first purchased it, I would have done several films by now instead of still be working on one. If you have gotten fairly proficient with a polygon modeler, it will be difficult to unlearn that as the modeling paradigm in AM is completely different. AM is very stable now, however there was one version ( version 9 I think) that was horribly unstable and it turned me off AM for a year or 2 since I really couldn't get anything done with it. AM is beyond these teething pains now and is every bit as good as a "pro" package. It has every feature the other packages have, and some they don't. You also can't beat the price. If you have spent the money on Maya, whether you bought Complete or Unlimited, the price for AM is a drop in the bucket. Get it. If you like it, great. If not, I believe Hash has a money back guarantee. I do have to say that coming from a background of modeling with a poly based modeler that learning how to use splines was the hardest thing about learning to use AM. There are no booleans or other tools like that, so you may be disappointed. It doesn't make any sense to model with primitives the way other people seem to model in polygon-based programs, since its much easier to just draw what you want. Give it a try. I don't think you will regret it.

Well..... I seem to be making some progress w/ rigging. Once I get all the cp's assigned correctly (I have some areas that are giving me fits) I will post Mr. Dragon in some poses. At least I know now its not the constraints but the fact that the auto cp assign is less than stellar which is causing the problem. Anyway...thought that those of you that are following this thread would be interested in an update. Thank god my other 2 characters are simpler. Anyone know if there is a female in an evening gown that might be pre-rigged? I am surely going to modify the head to have a more cartoony look. Roger (who is beginning to wonder if he will ever get to the animation bit)

Well....... I ended up just deleting them.......my char is a humanoid dragon.... I could try and post a pic with them, if you are curious just to see them. I am using AM 12.0w and TSM:2 (not sure what point version) In my version of setup machine there is a checkbox for wings/no wings along w/ biped legs or quad legs (on the bipedal char tab) Roger

OK.... For those of you familiar w/ TSM, for some reason when I am generating my rigging w/ tsm builder, even though I don't have the wings box checked, it generates wings. I checked the other tabs and I don't have it checked there either. I guess I can just delete them, but I am not sure why its doing this and would kinda like to figure out if I am doing something wrong or if its just one of those wierd things. Maybe I should close AM and reboot??? Roger