Roger

I guess it depends on how the surface is deformed when you are modelling with actual modelling clay. But I suppose it needs to be tightened up. I am working on eye sockets right now, but currently it looks like its going to be way too close together. What do you think?

Here is a shaded wireframe closeup of the feet and legs. I am not sure how much time it makes sense to spend on smoothing it out, it is meant to look like a clay model after all. Feel free to make suggestions, but I don't want to invest a ton of time on fixing that part of the model. I am going to be working on the beak/face today and will hopefully have a more or less complete model to post.

Thought everyone would be interested in seeing the feet attached to the body. (I really need to start working on a more regular basis, last post was almost a month ago) Anyway, here it is.

This is probably it for tonight - I think I need to scale down the ankle so it is thinner, as Rob suggested. And I ned to add some nails for the toes, maybe try and scuplt some webbing (or not, it looks ok and probably no one will ever see it). I think this is much closer to what I was going for.

Pixelplucker, I looked again at some of the photos I found - you are right, there is a 4th claw...however, in the photos I found, the fourth digit which is very small, appearing almost vestigial. Its no wonder I missed it. On other penguin breeds, it may be much larger and located more to the rear. I think all the photos I found were of Adelie penguins. Anyway, let me know what you think.

Ok After some tweaking, I am pretty pleased with this. It is starting to look a lot more like a penguin foot. Not perfect, but not bad for about 20 minutes. Still needs some more work, but looking good. I like it a lot more than the first version. Roger

Pixelplucker, Did some google image searches and your foot is very close - didn't realize how clawlike they are. Although I didn't see any w/ the rear spur/nail though. How do you get your 4 pt. holes to be so circular? Usually it takes me 6 points to get it to look like a proper circle. I am going to play around w/ min and see if I can't get it a little closer to what I've found, using those images as well as your foot for reference. Roger

Its a foot.... What do you think? Again, I'm going for fairly simple but I can't help thinking its missing something.

Pixelplucker, that is a gorgeous foot and if you did that on a break I am even more impressed. I am not sure I feel comfortable using it though, but the offer is very kind. I am attempting to do as much of this myself as I can and my chars are meant to be on the less realistic end of the spectrum (think Wallace and Gromit as opposed to Shrek). I would like to have a look at it for learning purposes though. What is a pigtail ( in modelling terms) ? I don't think I've heard of that before. Also, do you use 4 CPs for the body or just the limbs? That might make things a little easier, in terms of there being less to kep track of.

Anyway - here is an example of what I was talking about. I continued the leg splines up the back and ended them in hooks to help smooth some things out -it looks perfect on the back of the penguin but on the front I end up with wierd artifacts. You can see what I am talking about if you look at the patch/patches just above the leg on the right if you are looking at the front of the penguin. Before both the front left and right patches were doing that, now it is just the one. Not sure what is causing this, the geometry on the front is the exact same as the back. I have posted screenshots. The one on the left is the penguin front, the one on the right is the back.

That's generally what I try to do, hands, heads, and feet get modelled separately. Other than that, it is not always clear how to proceed. I try to make my body and limb segments out of cross sections with 6 points ( as opposed to 8 or 10 ) to keep spline density down. I have found fewer than that makes it hard to sculpt the limbs, more than that is unwieldy. And an even number of points as opposed to odd, because then it is a pain trying to attach a hand made up of a 6 point extruded ring to a 7 point wrist. No matter what I do, I can never seem to get the perfect immaculately smooth models that others do - I don't know if I'm making models that are too dense still and that is the problem, or if there is something else I'm doing wrong. I try to avoid 3 point patches whenever possible, but it is harder for me to avoid 5 pointers. Maybe I'm not using hooks enough. Maybe I'm worried too much about having an ultra-perfect model, when it is going to have clay shaders applied to it and is supposed to look a little imperfect. I have done the Giraffe tutorial, the Cooper tutorial, and the Fokker tutorial (as well as some of the simpler ones - the flower, for instance) and found that helped clear some things up. I have the Animation:Master: A complete Guide by David Rogers that I am going to start going through because I know rigging my models (as simple as the penguin is - it is essentially a sack with stubby feet and flippers) is going to be a nightmare. I appreciate the help and feedback that Rob and others have given. Hopefully before too much longer I will have some animation tests to show everyone.

Yeah I started doing something like that but I needed more geometry to shape the legs, so I ended up adding some extra points to the leg holes. I think it looks ok, let me know what you think.

This looks ok but I am concerned when I delete one half of the model and try to copy/flip/attach that I am going to have problems. Last time I had nothing but trouble from the center spline that made up the crotch. Here's a screenshot:

Ok - this is what I have so far and is more or less how I did things the last time. However now I am working with like 10 points on the bottom ring, which is going to make for some wierdness attaching these legs.

Yeah, I guess they do and that's the way I had it the first time but I just couldn't get it to look right. But now that I think about it, this is going to look worse. Last time I did this, I had put 2 holes for the legs on the bottom of the bird, then closed things off w/ 5 point patches and then extruded the legs out. It looked ok, but there was something funky about it. Do you have any suggestions?

It seems to be just this model. But I haven't tried anything else yet. I think what is causing it is the splines on the chest, because it was doing some funky things with those (the ones that ended in hooks) - so I have gone back to an earlier model with the extra splines across the chest. I can always get rid of them later. I am having a heck of a time deciding on how to put the legs in - I'm posting a screenshot of how I'm thinking of hooking them into he rest of the model. What do you think? Actually, I think I got it right the first time, for once. I just made the hole for the leg and it looks good. Going to try extruding the leg out and see how it looks - I'll post in a bit.

It seems to be just this model. But I haven't tried anything else yet. I think what is causing it is the splines on the chest, because it was doing some funky things with those (the ones that ended in hooks) - so I have gone back to an earlier model with the extra splines across the chest. I can always get rid of them later. I am having a heck of a time deciding on how to put the legs in - I'm posting a screenshot of how I'm thinking of hooking them into he rest of the model. What do you think?

yes, that's it. although I suppose when you do the other side that might as well be a CP instead of a hook. Slide it to about half way between the other splines. I'm working on cleaning up my penguin model still, and every time I try to do a copy/flip/attach now, it is causing AM to crash. Do I need to go back to an earlier model? Or start over even?

Here- is this what you were getting at?

So carry the one above through, and cut the one that I have going through currently off short? I'm a little confused.

Ok, that looks a little better I guess. Still a bit on the funky side, but I gues I can live w/ it. At least this is eventually going to have a clay shader applied to it, so I guess it doesn't have to be perfect. I still am trying to get that "crisp" look though. I guess I just want the geometry to look nice, regardless of the surfacing that is eventually applied. I know no one but me will notice, though. What do you think?

Robcat, Making some adjustments to my penguin, I used some hooks so as to not carry the splines all the way across the chest (as you suggested) but it looks a little funky. They did not want to attach at the points that would have made for the straightest lines. What do you think? I can't use hooks any earlier in without messing up the 5 point patches right where the flipper attaches to the chest. Roger

Yeah, I think you're right. I may need to take another look at that. I am not sure but I think that spline that makes up the front of the ankle may end in a hook, which may make it tough to adjust. I'll have another look at it tomorrow.

Ok - thought everyone might like to see an update of the body - I think it looks much better than the old one. I have been working on this since about 1pm CT and my brain is fried. Going to take a break. What is the etiquette regarding WIP posts? I really want to start a new one w/ my tentative title as the subject, since it will be easier to find when searching. I know I have like 4 different WIP threads going, I may put links to the old ones in the new one but I want to consolidate everything in one thread. Thanks to everyone that has helped.

Ok- I don't think this looks too bad. I used 5 point patches near the shoulders and hips, I think it looks ok - not perfect, but then what is? I think it will be easier to animate than the old quad leg setup. Posting a screencap, let me know what you think. Roger