rusty

Thanks Nancy and everyone else. Those are good compelling arguments and one's I hadn't thought of. Questions: * So you never save the project, just the chor? * In many cases I've collected all the models I need but have not placed them all in the chor yet, what then? Or how do you do it differently? Oh, oh...wife calling with a 'honey do'... more later. r

Got me with that one! If I have a project and every thing's embedded, when I save the chor it saves one .cho file. Nothing else is saved. If things are not embedded then, yeah, each item is saved out whether you save the project or the chor. r

Wow... yes the 101 is a version number. I'll take a look, fix it if needed. And depending on what it is, maybe it doesn't work. Thanks!

Oh no...but point taken though I fought that demon long ago. No file within the pool is ever linked or even embedded in a wip file. I have simple ways of checking this (I just disconnect the pool). LOL...its not screwy if I'm getting what I want! I love my setup! Yes...but no. I have a work around (I make copies of the models and don't embed them and it works) and no time to break it down if I don't have to. I regret posting the 'ultra' version of the uniform I did--it has some extra stuff built in to control parts of the shirt for 2 close up shots I need. I've tested the simpler hi-res and low-res models and I get the same thing (so weird). Never on the hair constraint action! That's what gives me snap on hair-dos and snap on hair colors (intermixable dos and color across all my virtual actors)! The folders, for the moment are irrelevant as I'm going to totally redo the head except for the mesh. Thanks. I'll watch out for that. r

Hi, Okay...when did you people move from saving mainly the project file to mainly saving the chor file? Why did you do this? What advantages does this have? Is there really 'any' difference besides the .prj and .cho file extensions? What else is there to this? What else, if anything, are you using chor files for? FYI: I have only used saving chor files for large models that exceed what I call the workable patch limit--once you pass a certain patch count (at least in V14) response time becomes unworkable. Cheers, Rusty

Hi, I want to know more about the pros and cons of embedding resources in a project (and therefore embedding in the chor). For myself, I have since my own 'dawn of time' with A:M embedded everything, always. Why? Dependability and minimizing loss is always my first priority. And, probably around 10 years ago I started embedding everything for that reason alone--I seemed to have less problems doing it this way. Part of this was that separating the current ongoing work from the resources I had on disk isolated and protected those resources. I ran into situations where A:M crashed, my PC crashed, there was a power outage, I screwed things up and could not undo and this as often as not messed up resources on disk I'd spent hours perfecting. Oh, I backup, backup, backup everything incessantly still...I lost more work if I had resource files simply linked into a project. Model development mirrored the above--saving the model then embedding it while working on it provided automatic protection of what I'd accomplished so far. Then came the need to consolidate. If I moved a project file or sent it to someone else...everything (except images) was all in the project file nice and neat. Then came my resource pool. Reuse became central to everything I did but resources in the 'pool' could easily become messed with unwanted changes when I was just looking for something and I forgot to embed (once I decide on using a resource it is copied to the project folder...again consolidation...everything used for a project is in the project's folder). At first I made everything in the pool read only but... this was a hassle when I wanted to add a new model to the pool or update the library files. So, my personal workflow became open and immediately embed it. But best practices change and regardless of everything above, if it makes more sense to not embed, or, even more important, if it makes things more reliable and reduces loss...I'll do a 180 on how I do things. Please let me know your thoughts, experiences and your own rational on this topic. Cheers, Rusty

Hi Nancy, I hope this finds you well and happy. Thanks so much for your time and effort spent on my problem. Good eye! But, I'm getting the same results on my desktop which is Win7. :-( No, it was the right file but I tried opening it though A:M... same same. Actually I usually do this. Not in a project as simple as the test I posted--I know I embedded each model. My issue is the importance of doing the embedding as soon as I bring anything into the project. This has to do with the way I do things, with protecting the resource on disk--either the existing version or the static version in the resource pool which I do not want changed--and...either auto save or the manual saves which I do quite often. If I don't embed it as soon as I open it, I could make an unwanted change, have an AM or PC crash that could affect the resource or, somehow corrupt the project and then save accidetally impacting the resource on disk. I have never encountered problems with this... and of course if you change the resource name in the chor you lose AM telling you (in the name) what resource it's linked to so I actually and purposely avoid changing chor link names. I exchange low-res for high-res models on a regular basis and have never had a problem...but I'll keep this in mind. Ah...my work flow is just the opposite and for many reasons but I'm starting a separate topic on the pros and cons of this--I want to reevaluate my practices. Not embedding 'everything' would be a huge change for me...not necessarily a bad change but a basic one. However, reliability and minimizing loss are always my top considerations. This is so interesting. I only use chors for complex models requiring the combination of multiple models (at a certain patch count models become impossible to work with due to response time). This would also be a huge change for me but again...my top considerations and all always dictate my choices. BTW, with great excitement I tried saving the chor but, dag-nab-it, my constraints still failed. This entire thing is not possible! Every time I open that project and move that bone and the head doesn't move a dizzy wave of unreality washes over me! How can it work for everyone but me? This is not POSSIBLE! Cheers, Rusty

Any external file that is introduced to the project file later can be expected to be unembedded. This is why we can safely have some files embedded while others are not embedded. I think we are chasing tails here. But I don't want to leave this variable dangling. As suggested before it isn't necessary to embed everything. I was simply suggesting that if your desire is to embed everything then you should be sure to 'Embed All' just prior to saving. There are other reasons and considerations for when and why to embed and these have probably evolved. This is pretty important to me but this is the wrong thread so I will start another. This thread is to figure out why my damn constraints are failing!! I must get them working dudes and dudettes! ;-) r

Dependability and minimizing loss are the most important goals for myself in workflow decisions. Best practices change. I would like to know all about this change (a change to me anyway) to using chors. It seems they are used instead of project files. Why?? What started this? Was reliability a factor? What are the advantages? What else, if anything were you using chors for...models? All this should be a separate topic, this may already exist. If not, what would be the best forum? Rusty

It has a lot to do with the target of those constraints, especially if you are constraining two models to each other. If the model is either not there or has changed then ... Hi Randy! Wow! Thanks for all this effort! You can tell when someone really has the passion. I've been doing 3D animation since 1992 and using A:M for 11 years (since v8.5) yet I'm still always learning new things about the program and animation. Perhaps this is another opportunity! But I'm not quite there yet. This is because I think I'm hearing and understanding you but... I must be missing something. I cannot think of a single reason or situation where you would need to 'embed all' just before saving or next time you opened the project you'd lose something (unless you go around deleting files the project has links to). Is there any kind of example you can provide? Even though I only 'kind of' agree with what you're saying (again...if I'm understanding it correctly) it got my hopes up, but those hopes crashed when I tried it and got the same result. It seems to me that what you say maybe sound advice to a beginner who wants to make sure that all the project or model elements are embedded so he/she can send the project to someone else or move it breaking file links. Granted if you embed a model that you open and you add say a new material that you have opened, that material will not be embedded unless sometime before you save/exit you explicitly embed it. But will present no problems upon reopening the project (unless you remove the material file or move the project file thereby breaking the path to it). elements added to a model after embedding it--elements being... well, all I can think of right now are materials. Those materials will open with the model via their link but they are not embedded unless you specifically embed them before saving. >>>> It has a lot to do with the target of those constraints, especially if you are constraining two models to each other. If the model is either not there or has changed then the constraint will fail. >>>> Well, the above is not 'completely' true. You can make changes to the model as long as you do not change the chain of bones to the target. You can open a different model (say a high res model) and as long as the skeleton is the same, you can change the target model in the chor and all will still work. >>>> Note: This is generally not a problem with constraints because they are within the same model. When constraining external models together it introduces additional variables; specifically that those external relationships must never change. If they do the constraints will fail. >>>> Yes...break the chain (or path) to the target and game over. >>>> Consider: In your video you imported Model and then immediately embedded (I would never bother doing this because it isn't likely to embed everything... some variables may be introduced later that nullify this). But this is okay, you can embed as many times as you want and that'll be okay. >>>> Ah, perhaps I can learn something I don't know here...exactly what would NOT be embedded? In my experience the entire model without exception is placed inside the project. If the model contains a material which is not embedded, then its link will be brought in but beyond that and images what is there? More important though is exactly what 'variables' "may be introduced later that nullify "??? Probably, LOL, we are on the same page and I'm just looking at what you're saying wrong. Cheers, Rusty

If I were on your end, I'd almost have to think that maybe Rusty if full of it...pulling everyone's leg...or just... whatever. I dug up an old program called CamStudio and captured a very simple example of what "I'm seeing" and put it on You Tube. Perhaps I'm doing something really stupid and don't know it...that would be nice!!! Take a look and tell me if you see anything I'm doing wrong. You might read the description--a narration of what I'm doing. Have a look... http://youtu.be/sY_FPbwvrEE Rusty

Definitely harder then showing still pictures and text/audio and music but lots more impact...a film crew...depends on what you're doing. Overkill? TBD. Harder than writing the book?! Ha! Well... that is...not in my experience and I've done both. There's always lots of reasons something won't work. Like cameras on cell phones!!?!!

I have now! I can't tell you how often I've wished you (or anyone else) would have the money to pay to do their rigging. Well, if I start getting orders for book trailers and I'm making any extra money, your name is at the top of the list! But...I'm an engineer type--not an entrepreneur. And doing 'everything' yourself is a bitch. I've researched the technical end of producing book trailers (starting in 2001) and I know there is a large demand. I've been working on ways to produce them cheaply enough for authors and publishers can afford them for 11 years and making significant progress. There are enormous benefits for all in doing this (see my site). I also know what's being created now and for what price. I know were and how to advertise and get the word out. Technically the stumbling blocks I still face are, for the most part, things you and others do all the time. Businesswise (startup, limiting exposure {corporations}, accounting, getting investment capital, selling, advertising, rules and regulations, etc.) is another matter--I'm a dumbass. But I do know that people have been trying to patient the idea since 2004 (my first example book trailer was posted on the AM forum in 2003) and at last check (2008?) no patents have been granted (how can you patent using video to advertise???). Also, at last check (2011) no one has yet given using 3D animation to create book trailers any thought--right now it's sliding pictures or film crews. Also my little trailer which was posted on You Tube but beyond that not really pushed or promoted produced at least 30 queries from writers on how to get one made for their books and on cost. Whoops...sorry, I get carried away and excited about this stuff. r

Hi again, There use to be a second install file which added other files that AM needed--has this been done away with? Also, use to be that on each AM CD you got models, materials, etc. Sometimes new items were added. Does the 'data' file contents still exist for V17? Thanks again! Rusty

Hi! Question 1: It use to be that to do a really clean uninstall of AM you had to search through the registry for "hash" and remove a couple of entries. It seems like Hash has to its credit added the removal of registry entries to its uninstall process. Besides "hash" is there anything else I should search for? Question 2: During the install there are now several options. One is whether or not to install SSE4. What is SSE4 and, if you know, the pros and cons of installing it? Question 3: Related to the above...what would be the pros and cons for installing the Timelog plug-in? Thanks for any information you can give me! Rusty

It failed before I sent it...I made very sure of that...then, the next day when everyone else said it worked I tried it again...then it worked. And, continues to work. As I've said, this is not possible. I intend to duplicate the above and see. I've actually saved the full model projects to see if the next day they work...nope but that's how insane it is. And this is the very first step in my production of the book trailer for book two which I started writing a couple of months ago. Rusty

It's a curious circumstance. Everything was embedded in the PRJ you sent us but it worked as expected. Doesn't work here. Impossible.

Hi Rodney, Thanks for chiming in and I hope this finds you well and happy. Question: I'm curious... did you embed again before saving and closing or only before setting constraints? I'm a fiend for standardized workflow. For my 2nd 'embedded test' I started a brand new project and followed my standard workflow which is to open everything I need then do 'embed all' then save. Then work starts (create chor, drag items to, save, do constraints/save/test/save). If/when I add new items I add/embed/save then work. I don't find that to follow logically. As you say this should be fairly straightforward to test. I just don't believe at all that if the project gets to big it fails but three things point to it. Will test anyway. The only thing that stands out to me at this point is that you may not be fully embedding all the files in your Project *after* you have set the Constraints. If this were the case then when opening the Project again the Constraints would not work, just as they are not working in your specific case. When dealing with pre-saved models that are then embedded into a Project there is a chance (due to many the variables of workflow) that the models are not actually embedded. I don't follow this. Whether a model is embedded or not or is later (after creating chor constraints on bones) embedded or un-embedded should not have anything to do with chor constraints unless the process changes one of the bones involved. The simple thing I'm trying now has worked thousands of times for me. It should work and it does work--LOL--for everyone but me. The only differences I've yet identified between myself and others are: 1. All my files live on a network file system (the same on all PCs) 2. I stripped out all of the images and materials on the test I posted. 3. Most likely PC brands and configs differ. 4. I'm here and they're somewhere else, LOL. What else?? would be also curious to see if saving/reusing only the Choreography would maintain the constraints. Rationale: You may not need the whole Project if you only need the Choreography Precedent: Chors were used instead of Projects in Tin Woodman of Oz. I often use chors for models which for one reason or another are actually multiple models constrained together in the chor. I plan of using this when I get it working. I tried this--still didn't work. I tried exporting from the chor to a model which is not an option as you loose poses...but didn't work. Today (or soon) I will try: * An ultra clean install (go through the registry) * Eliminate the network file system * Eliminate all materials * Eliminate all images * Constraining to non-control bones in the body (the Anzovin rig) * Create a new user and try it * Test project size * Try a third PC using the 30 day trial (if this is possible) If you can think of anything else I can try, please let me know. It will interesting if we can ever find out what's going on Randy, because right now it seems like this problem is not just weird... it's down right impossible...unless the AM code contains a statement like: If (user==rusty) {don't work}; !!!! Again, thanks for chiming in! Rusty

Update: (And btw, the following is the work flow) After a fresh install of AM Nothing changed. I opened a new project, imported the 'head' and 'body" models, created a chor then implemented the constraints, I visually reviewed them and tested them, everything worked. I saved and exited AM. I then realized I'd messed up--all tests to date had everything embedded in the project. So heck, lets see what un-embedded does. I opened the project and my constraints WORKED. So... I repeated step one but embedded everything, set constraints, tested, closed and reopened. Constraints FAILED. I ran two more test embedding one model then the other model. Both WORKED! Note: as rule I always embed everything always--you probably know the reasons. Based on this, only on my PC (just one, didn't try both), and at least for tonight anyway, when * everything is embedded, it fails. * if any one model is embedded, it works * if neither model is embedded, it works Does that tell anyone anything at all? It indicates that only on my PCs, if the program gets too big it fails. This seems easy to test but... tomorrow for that. BTW, if any of you think I'm doing something out of the ordinary or not looking at it right I'll be happy to do a Cross Loop desktop sharing and optionally an ooVoo video/voice to show you on both my PCs (the mentioned utilities are free and easy). Cheers, Rusty

More news... Why would the same thing fail on my two PCs and work for everyone else. One could have been 32 versus 64 but...nope. Another possible explanation is how V17g was installed. I installed right over the previous edition. **************What did you guys do? The next one is that we really weren't trying the same thing, ergo: * the path to the files. * I stripped out all the images and materials on the one I sent. Yet I failed on this test version too on the day sent but it worked the next day...this is too insane to contemplate. I uninstalled and removed the files AM and reinstalled it. My first attempt seemed to work but I realized that the models were not embedded as the test models were. When I embedded the models...it failed. I've planned out more tests, will let you know. *************** If anyone can think of what other differences besides PC model please ring in. Cheers, Rusty

Tying the head proxy of the head model to the head control of the body model would, as far as I can see, would do everything needed. There maybe a lower level head bone that the head control drives and this might be more 'proper' but other than that I see no difference. ?? The other bone constraint was just a first stab at the problem...it might even work with some tweaks. In both cases the control bones would control both head and body.

To attempt to resolve a weird problem I want to reinstall AM on my notebook however I can't find my license (or activation number). I did a search and found a post which says 'just go to the hash site and to your account' but I see no way to do this...no login screen or 'my account'. Does anyone know how this is done or, is there another way to get it? Thanks, Rusty

Well, one character is the body using Anvovin's thingy and the other is model is a head using the newer bone rigging method. I will also try something else that might be a difference between myself and all of you: I installed the 'g' update over the older version. I'll try a fresh install...hope there's no hassle with the new licensing system. Thanks, Rusty

I'll try this! Thanks, r And I'll try this! Thanks! r

I thought this was the missing element to this insanity. Works for everyone but me...how can that possibly be. And I have two PCs so it's not the computer, the install, memory or anything else. I have to wonder if you tried it on my PC... would it work? If I tried it on yours...would it fail. Not fair. r