Exercise 5 - Take A Walk

[MikeV]

So, I'm working on the "Take A Walk" exercise.

 

Up through frame 15, it's all fine. There's some tweaks I need to make, but it looks good to my eyes for a first go.

 

Where the trouble begins is in the steps where I'm copying and "paste mirrored" on the keyframes (0:00:00 mirrored to 0:00:20, and so forth). It's copying the bone positions, but it doesn't seem to be tracking the vertical position of the rabbit itself. So, it goes through the first step just fine, but then it stays at the same height when playing out the "paste mirrored" frames.

 

There's nothing I can see about changing any settings or anything, other than to zero out Balance and Balance Rigid, which I did before I started animating. It's confusing to me because it's literally just "Ctrl-C" at frame 0, Shift-Ctrl-V at frame 20, and so on. So I'm not even touching the model or anything at that point. I tried deleting the keyframes from 0:00:20 on up through the end and doing it again, but I get the same results. Sooo, I'm at a loss as to what I'm doing wrong or how to fix it.

 

 

I'm uploading the project file here. If someone wants to give it a look-see, that'd be awesome.

 

Thanks!

TakeAWalk.prj

[robcat2075]

My quick advice is to just make the mirrored poses manually. It's good practice, and making EXACT mirrors is neither necessary nor even desirable, usually.

[MikeV]

My quick advice is to just make the mirrored poses manually. It's good practice, and making EXACT mirrors is neither necessary nor even desirable, usually.

 

I considered that, as a last resort. At the same time, if there's something I'm doing wrong that would cause the Paste Mirrored not to work right, I should definitely know what that is so I can correct it in the future. Especially if it's something that might affect other areas of a project.

 

Incidentally, I don't know why I put this in this forum section. Meant to put it in the TAoAM section. My bad.

[robcat2075]

It's possible in the older version you have that either Copy/Paste/Mirror had a bug (that has happened) or that the Rabbit on that CD had a setup problem (that has happened).

 

It's possible you dont' have the right keyframe filters on when you copy the pose. "Key Skeletal Translations' and "Key Skeletal Rotations" need to be ON.

 

But worry not. Do the pose manually. I've never needed copy/paste/mirror in any character animation situation and when I get around to doing a tut on walks I won't teach it.

[MikeV]

My quick advice is to just make the mirrored poses manually. It's good practice, and making EXACT mirrors is neither necessary nor even desirable, usually.

 

I considered that, as a last resort. At the same time, if there's something I'm doing wrong that would cause the Paste Mirrored not to work right, I should definitely know what that is so I can correct it in the future. Especially if it's something that might affect other areas of a project.

 

Incidentally, I don't know why I put this in this forum section. Meant to put it in the TAoAM section. My bad.

 

So I decided to do the exercise again from scratch. Everything up to frame 15 is fine and, in fact, I got up to that point a lot faster (so that's a positive at least lol). However, the copy and paste-mirrored bit is still not doing what the tutorial says it should. Instead of "floating" at the highest point for frames 16-40, it now is slowly "sinking" back down to the starting height from frame 0. Also, the hands are really wonky, too.

 

Now, I'm wondering. Might it be a similar issue like there was with the knight model, being a different rig version? I ask because I notice when I'm saving the file for the first time, it gives me that warning about the rig being created with an earlier version of the software or something along those lines. Then it asks if I want to "embed" or "save" the model.

 

I could go ahead and finish up the animation by moving everything back by hand and it would be good practice. That's good advice from Rob for sure. By the same token, I would feel kinda like that's a "work-around" for an issue that might well be due to something I'm doing wrong. So I could do it by hand, just to continue on and complete the tutorial - there's a few more bits to it after that. I'd still want to resolve the weirdness with the copy and paste mirrored and find out why that's happening, though.

 

Hmm.. Maybe I'll move on to another exercise in the meantime and come back to this one. I intend to get alot of learning/practice in with A:M this weekend, so I don't want it all spent on a single exercise.

 

 

Edit To Add: I didn't see your last response when I started typing this, Rob. So, yeah... some of what I say will seem redundant to you lol. Also, I checked and both the skeletal keys you note are enabled.

[MMZ_TimeLord]

MikeV,

 

Remember that you can open the timeline for your animation, select the root bone for the model and in the timeline you can delete keyframes after 15 by drag selecting a box around them. Like so...

 

Timelord_Tip_0001.mp4

 

This should keep you from having to start from scratch and give you better control over your keyframes and editing keyframes as well.

 

Keep plugging away!

 

Cheers!

[MikeV]

MikeV,

 

Remember that you can open the timeline for your animation, select the root bone for the model and in the timeline you can delete keyframes after 15 by drag selecting a box around them. Like so...

 

Timelord_Tip_0001.mp4

 

This should keep you from having to start from scratch and give you better control over your keyframes and editing keyframes as well.

 

Keep plugging away!

 

Cheers!

 

Ahhh okay, thanks! That's a nice shortcut lol. I was manually going to each key frame and doing the Edit > Delete Keyframe route.

 

I'm going to do a test to rule in or out whether it's the rabbit model/rig issue. I know the Knight model I have now is a current/compatible one because I downloaded it after having an issue with "It's a Pitch!".

 

Sooo... My theory is, if I can animate the knight following that tutorial, and everything works okay, then I know it was the rabbit rig. If I get the same issue, then it's something else. What that something else is, I still won't be sure. But at least I'll have that ruled out.

 

Will post back when I get it figured out.

[MikeV]

Okay, well I can definitively say it's not the rabbit model/rig. It's doing the same thing with the Knight model.

 

With the knight, though, its torso starts sliding backwards on each frame after 16, which is nutty, considering I only nudged the body up or down based on the pose at a given frame. The feet stay in place, though. So, yeah. Some weirdness going on there.

 

I'm gonna take a break from this exercise for now and then maybe come back later and re-do the animation frames manually, so I can complete it. Actions are something I want to become more familiar with, so it'll be worth it.

 

Think I'll do some modeling instead heheh. Play with some patches!

 

So, I'll leave this thread as "To Be Continued..."

[robcat2075]

Why, when i was a boy I was trapped with just a 7MHz Amiga Computer with only 512K of RAM and no hard drive and I had to

. And we didn't even have bones back then.

 

And I liked it!

 

 

Whatever you are doing wrong that is making CPM not work, it is either not a serious hazard because you will never need CPM again or it will reveal itself in greater clarity on some future endeavor at which time we will be able diagnose it more completely.

[MikeV]

Why, when i was a boy I was trapped with just a 7MHz Amiga Computer with only 512K of RAM and no hard drive and I had to

. And we didn't even have bones back then.

 

And I liked it!

 

 

Whatever you are doing wrong that is making CPM not work, it is either not a serious hazard because you will never need CPM again or it will reveal itself in greater clarity on some future endeavor at which time we will be able diagnose it more completely.

 

 

Like I said, I'm going to go back and do it manually.

 

The reason I'm intent on doing it the CPM way is because:

1) That's the way the tutorial is instructing me to do it, so I want to follow through in that way.

2) I want to make sure it isn't the result of something I'm doing wrong, or if it is, find out what it is and correct it. For my own peace of mind.

 

Doing it manually and doing it the CPM way aren't mutually exclusive. I can do both. In fact, at this point I could probably do the 4 key poses entirely from memory lol. I can definitely see the value in doing it manually, especially when you don't want it to be a perfectly "symmetrical" animation cycle. I'm not against doing it that way, and I'm not dismissing your suggestion or ignoring your "hints" - subtle as they are... -cough- . I'm just being "anal", if you will, about getting the results the book illustrates, doing it the way the book instructs it.

 

There's no hurry, and plenty more for me to do and learn in the meantime.

[robcat2075]

A quick test with v13t with the Rabbit from that CD Shows two problems

 

-the various spine bones in Rabbit are not exactly on X=0 in the model. If they are centered they will get their rotation mirrored correctly. "Bone Position" Start and End for each must have X=0.

 

RabbitSpineCentered.mdl

 

 

If i do my Copy, then Paste Mirror with the "Key Model" filter on, the Hip Null gets its translation mirrored incorrectly by CPM. Other nulls seem to be treated appropriately but not the Hip Null. This bug persists in V17

 

 

In v13 and v17, if I do my Copy and then Paste Mirror with the "Key Model" filter on everything mirrors correctly except the Hip Null.

 

If I then set the "Key Bone" filter, select the Hips Null, and do Copy and then Paste Mirror on it alone, it will be correctly mirrored and the whole pose will be correctly mirrored now.

[MikeV]

A quick test with v13t with the Rabbit from that CD Shows two problems

 

-the various spine bones in Rabbit are not exactly on X=0 in the model. If they are centered they will get their rotation mirrored correctly. "Bone Position" Start and End for each must have X=0.

 

RabbitSpineCentered.mdl

 

 

If i do my Copy, then Paste Mirror with the "Key Model" filter on, the Hip Null gets its translation mirrored incorrectly by CPM. Other nulls seem to be treated appropriately but not the Hip Null. This bug persists in V17

 

 

In v13 and v17, if I do my Copy and then Paste Mirror with the "Key Model" filter on everything mirrors correctly except the Hip Null.

 

If I then set the "Key Bone" filter, select the Hips Null, and do Copy and then Paste Mirror on it alone, it will be correctly mirrored and the whole pose will be correctly mirrored now.

 

Hmm... so if I use the rabbit model you linked there, and make sure I have the hip null selected when I copy and mirror the frames, it should work okay?

 

Would it be the same issue with the Knight model, too, then? 'cause the same thing happens with the Knight. Well, not the same thing. Or is it that they're both using the same rig? I'm still kinda wrapping my head around the model > rig > action thing, though I think I get it.

 

I see people make their own skeleton rigs and I guess each is specialized for a different range of motion and such?

[robcat2075]

Hmm... so if I use the rabbit model you linked there, and make sure I have the hip null selected when I copy and mirror the frames, it should work okay?

 

My solution is a two pass solution. First mirror the whole model. Then mirror the Hips alone to fix it.

 

Would it be the same issue with the Knight model, too, then? 'cause the same thing happens with the Knight. Well, not the same thing. Or is it that they're both using the same rig?

 

Possibly.

 

 

 

I'm still kinda wrapping my head around the model > rig > action thing, though I think I get it.

 

It's your first encounter with it. You don't have to master it all in the first try.

 

 

I see people make their own skeleton rigs and I guess each is specialized for a different range of motion and such?

 

AM2001 is one of the more ancient rigs. It lacks several conveniences like heel raising, I don't recommend it, but for the purposes of this tut it's adequate.

 

My personal pref is TSM2 for its "easy" (relative term) install and useful controls.

[MikeV]

I'm still kinda wrapping my head around the model > rig > action thing, though I think I get it.

 

It's your first encounter with it. You don't have to master it all in the first try.

 

 

Oh, agreed. I just mean getting the gist of how they all work together, etc. I don't have any expectations beyond that at this point.

 

For the other info, that's very helpful. I think I understand what you're saying with the "two pass" approach. I'll perhaps give that a shot and see how it works out tomorrow. A bit tired to get into it now. My bed is starting to call to me...

 

Thanks again!

[robcat2075]

I'll note one other thing about "actions". They are good for things that must be repeated, but that's rare in most character animation.

 

Most character animation is done directly in the chor without doing it in an action first.

[robcat2075]

Bare bones example of animating a walk in the chor:

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=345735

[MikeV]

Bare bones example of animating a walk in the chor:

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=345735

 

Now, that was an awesome tutorial/example. Thanks for sharing that!

 

Between yourself and others whose videos I've seen, there's an amazing wealth of great assistance/instruction spread out on these forums. I think I'm gonna have to start downloading and keeping a categorized library of them.

 

Watching that video of you doing the walk cycle, how you start "big" and break it down step by step "clicks" far better than any verbal or written instruction could. I've read explanations of what you demonstrated there, and I've gotten the gist of it. However, I think seeing it in a context-specific situation is a hundred times more effective, especially with you explaining it as you go. At least for me.

[robcat2075]

Watching that video of you doing the walk cycle, how you start "big" and break it down step by step "clicks" far better than any verbal or written instruction could.

 

Thanks!

 

That there is the core concept of CG animation work flow (and most hand drawn animation, too).

 

You nail down the big landmarks of your performance and then refine the motion by staking out smaller and smaller landmarks in between.

 

Also known as "Pose to Pose" animation.

[MikeV]

Watching that video of you doing the walk cycle, how you start "big" and break it down step by step "clicks" far better than any verbal or written instruction could.

 

Thanks!

 

That there is the core concept of CG animation work flow (and most hand drawn animation, too).

 

You nail down the big landmarks of your performance and then refine the motion by staking out smaller and smaller landmarks in between.

 

Also known as "Pose to Pose" animation.

 

No prob! Credit where its due

 

I think what helps with that video in particular is that it's so basic nuts and bolts. You're tackling a single technique that's very simple and straight-forward by itself, but is a crucial building-block for much more complex projects. "Pose-To-Pose 101", basically.