Simon Edmondson Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Does anyone know of a way to get a wet looking material. property or map that they could tell me about ? I want to have a character painting or mopping the floor and need to have it look wet. It will be a white floor. Would a reflective, transparent material be the way to go ? Thank you for your consideration regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I would get a nice chrome texture, and shade it to white. There are a few to be found in the Contributors Cue, I made one HERE: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...&hl=chromey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 17, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 17, 2012 Does anyone know of a way to get a wet looking material. property or map that they could tell me about ? I want to have a character painting or mopping the floor and need to have it look wet. It will be a white floor. Would a reflective, transparent material be the way to go ? Reflective would be the way to go. Make sure there's an obvious difference between the "wet" and the "dry" parts of the floor. There will need to be something distinctive in the background to appear in the reflection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 John and ```rob Thank you for that. I shall try it this afternoon.. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 17, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 17, 2012 Something you might do is search for a few ads of floor mopping products and see how they made that wet-look look, so it was obvious in one image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 John In the instructions on how to use your material, you say to turn on the plug in shaders. Having turned them on, which one(s) should I then select to be used ? Thank you for your time. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 17, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 17, 2012 If you're talking about the render settings windows, just turn them ON, and do nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 I was trying for a time lapse effect on the action and going to try the chrome material suggestions later. However, in doing this test, I noticed some anomalies in the render and wondered if there might be a reason for them that could be avoided next time ? The lines on the floor disappear at times as the 'water' moves over them, only to reappear later, especially on the left of the scene? regards simonMop.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 19, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 19, 2012 How are you adding the wet effect and how are the lines on the floor done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 How are you adding the wet effect and how are the lines on the floor done? The wet effect is a mesh with colour, transparency and reflection properties applied. It is squashed up at the beginning and then scaled out across the floor as it progresses. The lines on the floor are a jpg applied as a decal regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 19, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 19, 2012 How are you adding the wet effect and how are the lines on the floor done? The wet effect is a mesh with colour, transparency and reflection properties applied. It is squashed up at the beginning and then scaled out across the floor as it progresses. The lines on the floor are a jpg applied as a decal regards simon hmmm... as an experiment, I'd change the mesh of the floor to be more dense. Is it just one patch? Try 4x4. and reapply the decal. Whatever it is... change it to a different mesh and see what happens. Of course make sure the "wet" mesh isn't falling below the floor mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Rob Thank you as ever for your help. I checked and, as you suggested, it was the wet mesh dipping below the floor level that was causing it. Mop.mov I've done a low res version with the chrome ,material. It looks good but the render times are horrendous. It started out at 20 seconds per frame but the last section they were taking 5mins or so @ 320x240. With only one ray for the light source and no multiple pass. ( this on a 3.00ghz Imac... regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 19, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'd experiment with using a z-buffered Kleig light instead of a ray-traced light. But I don't think we're really getting "wet" look here. We need to re-think that. hmmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandoriastudios Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 An animated map applied as diffuse, reflection, and specular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 An animated map applied as diffuse, reflection, and specular William Thank you for your suggestion. How would I do such a thing ? regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I did a little test with an animated bump and transparency mapRipple.mov I like the effect but does anyone have suggestions for a water settings in materials ? regards simon Thank you to everyone for their help so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 20, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 20, 2012 Nice ripples, but I don't think you need that much of an effect since he's just getting the floor wet. You could paint a series of frames that represent the area of the floor that the mop is going over. I did this in After Effects but you could screencapture yourself in a paint program doing something like this live: Sweeping.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Another test. This time with specularity intensity, diffuse , reflectivity bump and transparency. Ripple.mov I messed up the maps because I got the process wrong but think I understand it a bit better now so will redo the maps later. Any feedback welcome. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 You could paint a series of frames that represent the area of the floor that the mop is going over. I did this in After Effects but you could screencapture yourself in a paint program doing something like this live: Rob Thank you for your suggestion. The test was just to see if I understood the process of putting in animated maps of different kinds. The ripples seemed a good way to test that. I see what you mean about the strokes of the mop and will try that later. If you meant to film myself mopping ? Unfortunately that is not something I can do effectively as I'm a wheelchair user. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 20, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 20, 2012 If you meant to film myself mopping ? No, I meant screencam your computer while you paint the swishes in a paint program. You'll get something kind of like the clip I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Revised testMopping.mov Going to try for transparent background next. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 20, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 20, 2012 Revised testMopping.mov Going to try for transparent background next. regards simon that's looking promising! Ultimately you'd do it on a flat rectangle, overhead view so you could easily apply it to the rectangular floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 that's looking promising! Ultimately you'd do it on a flat rectangle, overhead view so you could easily apply it to the rectangular floor. Thank you. I'm enjoying doing the maps ( my roots as a painter I suppose ) but I can't seem to get the background to go as transparent as I would like. I tried doing it as a grey then inputting in that value as the key colour but it was still a bit murky. So I converted them all to RGB files and put a pure red in as the back ground and inputted the pure colour as the key but that came out even darker ( but semi transparent ). I shall have another bash at it tomorrow as the eyes are getting a bit tired at the moment. Thank you for your help. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 but I can't seem to get the background to go as transparent as I would like. I tried doing it as a grey then inputting in that value as the key colour but it was still a bit murky. So I converted them all to RGB files and put a pure red in as the back ground and inputted the pure colour as the key but that came out even darker ( but semi transparent ). I like your Mopping Map! Definitely looks promising. You should probably be able to use it as an animated gray scale (or just black & white) reflectivity map to define the wet areas (puddles) along with animating the transparency and reflectivity fall off values. Your reflectivity map can be shades of gray (white is 100% reflective, black - 0), no need to set a key color, but you could use an alpha channel instead (probably not necessary). I needed to do something similar, so I did a test for myself, see here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Nancy Thank you very much for your post and the links to your examples. I will try to digest and understand then apply to my things. That is certainly a fabulous effect you have there ( the model is very good too of course ! ) The mopping map was very simple to do. Its basically using the airbrush and the smudge tools in photoshop. It gave me an idea for something I want to use at a later date and, thinking about it now, could readily be used for rain on a window pane ? H'mmmm regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 This is a small diversion before I get back to trying to make it wet. I wanted to make sure I understood what was happening? You can spot the tiles but, liked the effect... simonsmall_wave.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 21, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 21, 2012 This is a small diversion before I get back to trying to make it wet. I wanted to make sure I understood what was happening? You can spot the tiles but, liked the effect... simonsmall_wave.mov It looks like you have the "repeat" values in the decal properties set to other than 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 It looks like you have the "repeat" values in the decal properties set to other than 1 Rob I wasn't trying for a repeat, just to see if I understood what was happening. I might do now ( maybe ). I added a reflectivity map to the same set up and this is the result.small_wave.mov The reflection vanishes in places but, I think that is because the map is black at that point. I'm going to try again with the mopping experiment tomorrow. Thank you for your help. Thank you to Nancy too for her helpfull illustrations of her process. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 Now I (sort of ) understand the process of getting reflections with maps, I was hoping to get back to the original mopping idea. The sequence seemed to be working in the way I wanted but now I need to apply it to the whole of the floor space, rather than two mop strokes worth. Is it possible to apply the animated sequence in multiple locations but have each location follow on in sequence so, as the figure moves from top left to top right, the mopped section is retained in the first sector , as the new one appears in the second and so on down the floor ? ( hope that makes sense.) I tried to apply a decal in a chor but that option was not available. It looked as though it might be possible to control timing with multiple applications as an action then off set the timings ? or do a new animated map for the whole floor space ... ? Does anyone have a better suggestion ? regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 22, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 22, 2012 Is it possible to apply the animated sequence in multiple locations but have each location follow on in sequence so, as the figure moves from top left to top right, the mopped section is retained in the first sector , as the new one appears in the second and so on down the floor ? ( hope that makes sense.) If you turn on Show More Than Drivers for a model inthe chor you can access the properties of its decals. There you can keyframe "frame" values to make an image sequence play at other than the default. I tried to apply a decal in a chor but that option was not available. You can apply a decal to an object in the chor from any view point. Pick the object inthe chor, then on it in the Objects folder and choose New Decal, then you can place a decal in your current view. The decal sizing is very finicky in perspective views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 If you turn on Show More Than Drivers for a model inthe chor you can access the properties of its decals. There you can keyframe "frame" values to make an image sequence play at other than the default. Rob Thank you for the tip about applying a decal in the chor ( I recognised what meant this time ! ) What I was hoping to do was apply the sequence in one place, ( top left ) have it run through for say0- 50 frames, then have another application of the sequence run from 51- 100 ( top right ), then middle left for 101- 151 and so on until the whole are was covered. Is that possible ? regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 22, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 22, 2012 You can apply the image as a new decal, unrelated to the other application. Just like if you were applying a different image, but you happen to be applying one you've already used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 I revised the map sequence ready for the final version ( by extending it to 50 frames )Mopping.mov But a number of anomalies haver crept into the result and I wondered if anyone might have suggestions as to how and why ? Exactly the same animated mopping decal is applied to each of the four quarters of the mesh. One stamp in each section. It is completely transparent in the top left quarter but visible in the others, and there is a lot of 'noise' appearing in the background of the map which is not there on the original. The background is 255 white and that is what is keyed for that colour. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 23, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 23, 2012 could you post a version of that PRJ without the character, but with everything else "Embedded" (Project > Embed All) and also post one frame from the middle of the image sequence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Rob Here is the project Wet_look.prj and ( i hope ) here is one of the maps Thank you for your help. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) I revised the map sequence ready for the final version ( by extending it to 50 frames )Mopping.mov But a number of anomalies haver crept into the result and I wondered if anyone might have suggestions as to how and why ? Exactly the same animated mopping decal is applied to each of the four quarters of the mesh. One stamp in each section. It is completely transparent in the top left quarter but visible in the others, and there is a lot of 'noise' appearing in the background of the map which is not there on the original. The background is 255 white and that is what is keyed for that colour. First: I LOVE your mapping mop...er...mopping map...It will be terrific once you get the kinks out. 1) The first thing I notice, after making your wet group blue, changing transparency to 0, and changing the image type in transparency to COLOR is that the stamp is not positioned correctly in the upper left quadrant. The other thing I notice is that after using white as the key color there is noise in the image or the other stamps weren't positioned correctly. I only changed the settings so that I could see the UV mapping. 2) FYI, you do not need to have 3 different decal containers. You can add images to the first decal container, and then specify what type (color, bump, transparency, reflectivity, etc). That is easier to manage and all will have the same UV mapping. right click on images/add image/pick image. Change type to whatever you want. EDIT: I am not sure how you are using the animation (mopping) image sequence - IF you are applying it as a .mov or .avi then you might be experiencing compressing artifacts. Your best bet is to use an uncompressed image sequence of individual files (img001.jpg, img002. jpg, etc). Otherwise, I'm not sure why you have the speckly effect. AND if you want to cut down render time - use a klieg light with zbuffered shadows instead of a light bulb with raytrace shadows. EDIT2: New screen capture shows where I restamped the top left, changed the 1st decal container to have multiple image types (transp, bump, reflect), made wet group red, added klieg light. This is to show how the surface colors of the wet group and base will influence the look as well. This is a screen render. I have seen unfortunately that final renders will look different than screen renders. ugh. Makes it difficult to tweak. Edited July 23, 2012 by NancyGormezano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Nancy Thank you very much indeed for your comments and especially for your help. I will try to correct the errors and post that when done. I feel a bit bashful about the mopping sequence ( it is a sequence of jpg's ) as it only took about an hour to do. If I can get the whole thing to work, I'll redo the sequence to get the time lapse effect I want and post that. Thank you regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 With great thanks to Nancy. Here is the latest revision. I will try to do a better animated map, over 100 rather than 50 frames, and post that result later. Thank you. regards simonMopping.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 looking good! Really like that mopping effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Nancy Thank you very much indeed for your help, it is very much appreciated. I revised the mopping sequence several times and here is the final one ( I hope )Mopping_2.mov It occured to me last night, literally as I got on the bed, that the reason for the speckly effect in earlier versions may be because the key colour was 255 white and the file format was jpg. I'm not a very technical person ( you may have noticed ) but I seem to recall that Jpg is a 'lossy' format and I wondered if that was the cause of the speckles, because the compression algorhythm (sp ?) compresses whites so much and that comes out in the render ? When I changed the sequence and put a Blue 255 in place of the white the speckles seemed to have disappeared... regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 24, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 24, 2012 It looks like really stiff water but I think you're on the right track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) I like that you're going for a stylized look - but I have to agree, it's looking like some very thick, stiff water as it gets applied - but I like how it looks at the end. Perhaps try lowering your bump percent in the decal to make it less stiff looking? I tried a test at doing something similar here, but not using an animated image sequence for the "painting" part, mainly because I didn't have one, and also wanted to try "drying". Edited July 24, 2012 by NancyGormezano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted July 25, 2012 Admin Share Posted July 25, 2012 I see some really great tests going on here. This effect (as you've currently got it) reminds me a lot of Rapunzel's 'painting the camera' effect in the recent Disney movie. In that respect it does have an extra thickness to it that seems to imply more than just water. If compositing/overlaying that thickness could be reduced considerably via transparency and/or blur. Keep up the great work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 Rodney Thank you for your input. I've made a couple more tests. Following Nancy's suggestion, I dropped the bump map down, to 10% and that seemed to go through OK,Mopping.mov So, emboldened, I tried it on the original modelMopping_2.mov with this result. The wet look seems to work (?) but a number of rendering anomalies have crept in, even though the map sequence is the same and I don't think I have altered any of the material properties as yet. Its a bit of a puzzle. The exact placement and timing of the animated sequences are yet to be finalised but thats the next task. regards simon My expertise doesn't yet extend to the 30 mins solution offered elsewhere. Maybe next year ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) The wet look seems to work (?) but a number of rendering anomalies have crept in, even though the map sequence is the same and I don't think I have altered any of the material properties as yet. Its a bit of a puzzle. The wet look works sorta - but you seem to be covering up the color of the floor, so it looks more like painting. If you are happy with it, then go with it. However if you want to keep the color of the floor then: What I found best when using your mopping still, was to use a different black & white image for the transparency and reflections (with no key color) and your gray scale one for the bump. I changed the bump image to have a black background (no key color needed), but would probably still work with your white background (no key color). The important part is having black backgrounds for the reflection, transparency images. The image in the decal says that for reflections: black = 0 reflective, white = 100% reflective transparency: black = 100% transparent, white = 0% transparent The group settings: transparency =0 and reflectivity =0, will only apply to those areas that have not been stamped with the decal. I found that there are differences as to how things look when rendered in 16b versus 17b5, so be warned. They also look different as to how they appear on screen (with render lock) versus final rendered. Hope I'm not intruding, and hope this helps. TransparencyReflectivityBumpMOP17b.zip Edited July 26, 2012 by NancyGormezano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hope I'm not intruding, and hope this helps. Nancy thank you very much indeed for your help, no intrusion whatsoever. I followed your suggestions and excellent examples and this was the result.Mopped0.tga I hope I've understood the process better. I will try to implement it on the animated maps later to make sure. Thank you once again. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Been a couple of false starts today as the neurones tried to untangle themselves but, here is the latest attempt. It cycles through rather quickly because its only 8 frames. Any suggestions ? Thank you once again to Nancy and Rob for their help. simon Actually mopping later...Splash.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 26, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 26, 2012 that one is a bit hard for me to judge, it goes by so fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Been a couple of false starts today as the neurones tried to untangle themselves but, here is the latest attempt. It cycles through rather quickly because its only 8 frames. Any suggestions ? Actually mopping later...Splash.mov Not sure what you are going for. Are you trying to demonstrate waves? Without seeing your settings it's hard to know. But it looks like you are using a grayscale image sequence for the reflectivity and transparency (same as the bump?) instead of using only a black/white image sequence that defines the areas, and the amount of transparency, reflectivity is varied by setting the % in the decal container? Your still image in your previous post (mopped0.tga) looks right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Not sure what you are going for. Are you trying to demonstrate waves? Your still image in your previous post (mopped0.tga) looks right. Nancy. Thank you once again for your comments. You are correct in your observation regarding the grey scale gradient. I'd spent several hours on animated maps using the same method as the still image, but the maps proved too clumsy in their execution. So to make sure I knew what I was doing, I did the one with the gradient. I'm going to try the mop sequence again. On a side note: Is it possible to animate a change in the refractive index using maps ? One of the things I did notice with the ripples on the floor boards was that the lines stayed straight when the swell passed over it. Its less important now, as I need to get the sequence right, but something for later perhaps. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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