LiteRig

[mtpeak2]

Ok Holmes, the legs seem pretty good now.

 

Now for the arms. As Nancy mentioned, the limits on the left forearm. The IK arms have a reference to an active and hidden relation for the right and left arm IK control nulls, pick a method of hiding the nulls (the left arm IK control null doesn't unhide with the pose ON). Also, the hand bones should be hidden in IK arms, since you rotate the nulls to manipulate them.

[HomeSlice]

Arms fixed. Updated LiteRig and RobbyLite are in the first post.

Thanks guys

[mtpeak2]

One more thing. I would change the roll method of the right and left arm IK control nulls to "Z-Singularity" or "Roll-History" in the properties.

[HomeSlice]

One more thing. I would change the roll method of the right and left arm IK control nulls to "Z-Singularity" or "Roll-History" in the properties.

I'll do that Mark, but I want to understand why. I don't understand "Z Singularity" or "Roll History" that well, even though I've read their descriptions in the help file.

Thanks.

[steve392]

I don't know if you would be kind enough to take a look at this model ,it might tell you ,or me something .The problem with the bicep rotating has me beat .Maybe the latest fixes you have done fixes it

beuty_done_lightriged.zip

[steve392]

The bicep seem ok if I keep the arm control sorta tight to the end of the arm ,just when I try to bend the elbow it gets twisty .Carying on anyway and doing smartskinn ,heres a test on the lower hips

smartskinn_test.mov

[HomeSlice]

I don't know if you would be kind enough to take a look at this model ,it might tell you ,or me something .The problem with the bicep rotating has me beat .Maybe the latest fixes you have done fixes it

Please explain your problem in more detail. I opened up you model and the only thing I found is that your fan bones are not constrained to orient like anything (they have Translate To constraints on them), so they aren't moving when you move your arms. Also, the CP weighting does not appear to be finished. Other than that, everything looks fine. Shoulders are always a challenge. Everybody seems to have their own solution to make the shoulders deform smoothly and you will probably find many of those solutions on the forum.

 

If you don't like the way the bicep rotates when you bend the forearm, do this:

In your rigged model, open the Rigging -> Limits relationship.

In the list of bones under the Limits relationship, find "Left Forearm" and "Right Forearm", they will have Euler Limits constraints. Set the Euler Limits as follows:

----------

Minimum:

x = -180

y = -180

z = -180

----------

Maximum

x = 180

y = 180

z = 180

[steve392]

Now I got it I was trying to remember if there was a orient like on the fans and neant to check it but obviusly forgot ,so thank's .Yea still playing with wiaghting and smartskinn ,triede the euler limit as you sugesred but it gives striate arms lol not realy what I was after ,one thing though is there a way to make it so I can rotate the bicep with the rotator on the bicep bone as it don't move at the moment

Thank's for taking a look it helped ME anyway

edit That makes a lot of diferance to the elbow bending ,thank's Holmes(the orient like on the fans that is .just gotta re do the wights wich wernt good

[mtpeak2]

Holmes, I don't know much about the differences of the roll methods either. All I know is, with it set to the Y-Poles-Singularity, rotating the null, the roll handle tends to roll unpredictably, when trying to position to hand. The other methods seem to be more predictable. Try the different methods and you'll see what I mean.

[mtpeak2]

Steve, the rig used in your model is an older version, alot of improvements have been made since.

 

To fix the bicep from twisting, expand the Relationship folder in the PWS. Go to the Rigging folder and expand the Limits relationships, delete the right and left biceps from this pose relationship.

[steve392]

Oh thats got it ,Thank's Mark it worked a treat,now I can play

[HomeSlice]

Holmes, I don't know much about the differences of the roll methods either. All I know is, with it set to the Y-Poles-Singularity, rotating the null, the roll handle tends to roll unpredictably, when trying to position to hand. The other methods seem to be more predictable. Try the different methods and you'll see what I mean.

 

I finally uploaded an updated LiteRig. I changed the Roll Method for the Arm IK Controls to "Roll History". It seems to work best at the moment.

 

Thanks for all your help.

----------------------------

 

If anyone wants this fix in a model that has already been rigged with the LiteRig, look in the rigged model's folder for and . Look in the |Properties| window for each bone and change the Roll-Method to "Roll-History".

[steve392]

Holmes can we put the fix in on a allready riged model for the arms?

[mtpeak2]

Steve, read Holmes' last post again. He explains how to update a model that has already been rigged.

[steve392]

Oh sorry didn't see that ,bust be not used to having the sigs turned on .Cheers Mark

[steve392]

Im riging another model all is well untill I get to doing the constraints on the fan bones ,when I edit the costum constraints relationships there is no calf and feet bones showing .Is there a way to get them to show ?.Using the latest install rig dl

[HomeSlice]

Im riging another model all is well untill I get to doing the constraints on the fan bones ,when I edit the costum constraints relationships there is no calf and feet bones showing .Is there a way to get them to show ?.Using the latest install rig dl

 

Yes. In the model's |User Properties| window, turn the IK Legs pose OFF. This will show all the foot and leg geometry bones.

 

Make sure you DO NOT turn the IK Legs pose off in the |Pose Slider| window when editing your pose. If you do, then the rig will behave unpredictably.

[steve392]

Ah ah many thank's Holmes now to work

[steve392]

Don;t know what Im doing but I must have got something wrong ,the fan bones in the right arm ,elbow and wrist are wrong and the feet are backwards in an action nut look ok in the modeling bones window .Any idea what this could be

[HomeSlice]

The roll handles on your foot bones may be pointing up. Close any Action or Choreography windows. Then open a Model window and check them. If the roll handles are pointing up, rotate them so they are pointing down. If that fixes it, you may be following an old version of the instructions. Please download the updated instructions.

 

The funky fan bones may not have the correct parents. For example, the elbow fan bone should be a child of the bicep. Since the fan bones on the left side of the model appear correct, use them as a guide. If all else fails, just delete the misbehaving fan bones, along with their constraints and add them again in your rigged model.

[steve392]

You was exactly right ,Thank's for that ,not looking at the instructions asuming I was doing it correct ,thats my problem .I allso forgot to asign the fingers ,and I could have swore I did that .Just goese to show ,check check check

[mtpeak2]

Holmes, I have an idea for adding the fan bones. You can add them as you did for the control bones.

 

Add all the fan bones to a separate model with the constraints needed in a pose (translate to 100% and orient like 50%) to operate in the rig, parenting should not be an issue with the translate to constraint. Setup a new action with the fan bone model as the action object. Setup the constraints to translate to 100% and orient like 100% to position the fans for export. No compensation of constraints in the pose or action. In the fan bone model the position of the bones doesn't matter, they all can be at 0,0,0 with no rotation.

 

You could even add this to the control bone action if you wanted to.

[HomeSlice]

That's a good idea.

If we keep the fan bones as a separate action, it will be fast and convenient to add a default fan bone setup, yet people who would rather do their own fan/coggs solution would not be forced to accept the standard fan bone implementation. In fact, people might be able to create their own fan, cog solution(s) in separate actions and share them on the forum.

 

I was also wondering if we could use the same install system to provide things like extra arms and heads and stuff.

What about rigging a centaur? It would be neat to be able to import "Quad Back Legs", "Quad Front Legs", "Quad Spine", "Human Spine", "Human Arms" and "Human Head". They place the geometry bones in their model. Then run the "Install Quad Back Legs" action, then the "Install Quad Front Legs" Action etc. I haven't tested this yet though. I have not idea if it would actually work.

[mtpeak2]

I did some testing and I think the fan action will have to be done before the control rig action. I got strange results in the legs when trying to add the fan to Robby after export. I'll have to see if turning of the IK leg setup fixes the problem. But I see no reason why it wouldn't work if the fan action is run before the control action. The fan bone action worked as expected, but as I said, there were issues with the IK legs after export, I'm unsure why.

 

It should work for extra arms and legs, if someone is willing to setup all the different models and actions.

[mtpeak2]

I've done a bit more experimenting. The fan bones will need extra contraints in the rig setup and the action setup, but should work. Running the fan bone action first is the way to go, no problems after export.

[HomeSlice]

5/27/09 - added Thumb Rotator nulls to the thumbs. Now you can move and rotate the thumbs for more precise control.

Updated LiteRig.zip is in the first post.

[NancyGormezano]

I really enjoyed using the Literig when animating bumpyman - powerful enough with squetchy parts, with minimal amount of bones, controls to sort thru. Never did test it with any IK/FK switching tho. EDIT: just tested - worked like a charm

 

I also especially liked the Lite face rig - tho it seemed different on Bumpyman from what was posted for installation. I liked the improvement's to the Face rig on Bumpyman

[HomeSlice]

Thanks Nancy

[Gerry]

Hi Holmes - I'm going with the Lite Rig and Lite Face Rig for my holiday animation. Thanks for your work on this.

[HomeSlice]

Thanks Gerry. If you have any questions installing it or troubleshooting issues, please ask! I'm working on some modifications but it's going kind of slow since I'm squeezing it in between other projects.

 

One thing I noticed after rigging about a dozen models with it. The legs work better if the legs are straight and the feet are pointed straight ahead. If you want the character to have bow legs or you want the feet to be splayed outward or pidgen toed, do it in a pose after the character is rigged. Then set the pose to 100% in the Model's properties so you don't have to remember to turn the pose on every time you place the character in a chor.

[Gerry]

I just saw your last post a day or two ago but fortunately I had already positioned the feet as you suggest. I did puzzle over it but then opted to keep it simple and everything at 90 degrees where possible.

 

I do have another question about positioning the thumb bones. In the instructions it says "The roll handles for the thumb bones must point in whatever direction the thumb is intended to curl." Based on the roll handles of all the other bones I assume this means that it points AWAY from the curl, i.e., out the back of the thumb knuckle. Is this correct?

[Gerry]

Holmes, if you're around I'm having some trouble when I assign cp's to the thumb bones. I did manage to straighten out the left thumb with some trial and error, but the right thumb crimps up badly when I assign the cp's.

 

In an effort to work it out I copied the exact position and rotation numbers of the left bones and used them to reposition the right bones, but assigning the cp's still messes up the mesh. Everything else appears to be working fine so far.

 

I can post some screen shots if that's any help.

[HomeSlice]

Hi Gerry,

Screen shots always help. I need a little more information. Assigning CPs to bones in the Modeling window is a basic AM process. The rig, no matter what the rig is, shouldn't have an impact on that. How, exactly, is your mesh getting messed up when you assign CPs?

If the mesh is messed up in an Action window, then most likely the roll handles on the bones are not pointing the right way. If you copied the rotation values from the left thumb to the right thumb, then the Z rotation on the right thumb bones will be opposite of what they are supposed to be.

[Gerry]

I'll work on putting together some screen shots that will show the bones, roll handles and both the modeling window and the action where I'm doing the cp weighting. The first odd thing I noticed was that after the bones were placed but before doing ANYTHING else, when I selected "Auto Assign Bones" the mesh jumped and shifted in several places. It was very odd behavior as I've done these things before. I unassigned the bones and shifted the bones that seemed to be responsible, reassigned bones and with some trial and error it's all working ok, i.e., the mesh-shifting was minimized, but that it happened at all seemed odd.

 

I'm following the instructions meticulously. I didn't mess with the "Install" action until the instructions called for it (only to do a test last night of the work I've done so far), haven't touched the thing that says "Don't Touch This!" and working through the cp weighting is working just fine.

[Gerry]

Hey Holmes - here's a series of screen shots showing the roll handles, unassigned cp's, and what happens as I assign cp's working my way up from the tip of the thumb. when doing these I noticed that the bone positions are different in the action window than in the modeling window. I moved some things around but not nearly that much. When I was fiddling with the bone positions I did it in the modeling window without cp's assigned.

[HomeSlice]

Gerry, I don't know what is going on. If you send me the model (holmesbryant at gmail dot com) I will take a look at it.

 

Sometimes if I reassign CPs after having already assigned them to a bone, I get results like those in the picture. In those cases, I have to delete the old action and create a new action. Then everything behaves.

[Gerry]

thanks Holmes, I appreciate your help. But does deleting the action mean I need to do all the cp weighting from scratch? Can just the offending bones be deleted and replaced if they're named the same?

[HomeSlice]

You can safely delete an Action without losing any of your weighting or smartskinning. Those things are stored in the model, not the action.

[Gerry]

Hi Holmes - Got the rig all installed and doing some testing and a walk cycle at the moment. It looks great and other than tweaking some cp weighting I'm ready to move onto the liteFace rig.

 

However in looking over this thread I saw on the first page that Nancy had an issue with spreading the fingers and a Carpal Controller was mentioned. But I can't seem to find it. Is it still in there?

 

P.S. Thanks again for fixing the thumb. It seems to be fine now.

[Gerry]

Here's some weirdness I encountered using the walk cycle tutorial in TAOA:M. Appears to happen when I copy a keyframe and "paste mirrored". Is that something I shouldn't be doing with this rig, or is it a problem with my rigging?

 

this is just practice and I won't be needing a walk cycle in my short, so it's not *serious* at the moment but I wondered if you could shed any light on it.

 

Thanks!

AnnieWalkTest_h264.mov

[HomeSlice]

Hi Gerry,

When you Copy/Paste Mirrored, be sure you have the "Whole Model" filter button activated. Don't try to just CPM a bone or a branch. At least in v15.

I have used CPM on many occasions with the LiteRig and it has always worked fine, but that does not mean it will always work flawlessly for you. I guess it just depends on the way you work. If you can list a series of steps that always produces a funky result, it would help greatly in troubleshooting any problems you might be having.

 

In the movie you posted, it looks like the shoulder bones are rotating around the Z axis. You probably don't need to rotate the shoulder bones for a walk cycle. Just delete the channels for the shoulder bones (in the Action) and it should be fine.

[Gerry]

Thanks Holmes, I will look at all of that shortly. Can you tell me anything about that Carpal Controller or other method for spreading the fingers?

[HomeSlice]

Can you tell me anything about that Carpal Controller or other method for spreading the fingers?

Sure, what would you like to know?

Rotate the carpal controller null left/right to spread the fingers. Rotate it up/down to bow the hand.

What else would you like to know?

[Gerry]

Oh, I see it now. I didn't know to turn off the hand gizmo to get access to it.

[HomeSlice]

You shouldn't have to turn off the hand gizmo to access it. It should be available when the hand gizmo is ON.

....

[Gerry]

For some reason I either wasn't seeing it or unable to select it last night, but it WAS late!

 

this is a great rig and I'm well into doing the lite face as well.

[HomeSlice]

Be sure you save a copy of your rigged model without LiteFace installed ... just in case you run into any trouble and need to try it again.

[Gerry]

You bet I am, I'm saving versions of the model at every step.

[NancyGormezano]

Just wanted to let you know that I installed the Literig into a new model that I've just done. I may be slow - but I was sucessful. It's a very straightforward process.

 

Your instructions are terrific - wonderfully concise & extremely clear.

 

My only trouble was not completely understanding how the thumb rotator should be placed (relative to thumbA), but it seems to be ok...

 

My cp weighting could still use work. And it was extremely handy and easy to use RobbieLite as a guide.

 

Unfortunately I found out that exporting from an action wrecks some decals (changes repeat counts, & some 5 pointer patches got de-decaled). Exporting from an action also seems to delete group folders.

 

And now I'm on to a face rig - Did you perchance get a new face rig going for Gerry ? and is it available? (ugh - just remembered there is exporting from an action, and I will have to clean up decals, etc again). I know you have a new version posted - but it sounded like you were going to do something different again.

 

I will be investigating doing a modified, simplified face Rig using Steven Cleary's head Gizmo as well - but I'd really be interested in seeing what you've come up with, if it's available.

 

Many thanks for doing this VERY easy to install but VERY complete rig!

[HomeSlice]

Thank you Nancy.

I did post a newer version of the LiteFace (http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=46641)

But I don't have updated instructions yet. Also, even though it is a smidgen less complicated, you still have to open a new Action window and export.

The tricky part is placing all the control nulls at the tips of the face bones. If you want to do that manually, you don't have to export an action.

I'll try to get together some updated instructions in the next week.