Mr. Bill Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Hello, all. I am new to the forum. I have a problem getting a good transition between a walk cycle (as example) action, and the continuation into more choreography. All I have tried so far is to make the character pose and wave at the end of the action. I have been using 'new/choreography action' then starting the continuation from there. Buuuuuuuut...it keeps making all sorts of strange things happen like: changing my character's position, moving his foot in contorted positions, and even switching the moving leg. Can you tell me how to fix this? It must be possible (and easily so) to make smooth transitions into a new action or choreography. What settings am I missing, or what am I doing wrong. PS. I have tried the channels section of the key frames, but it takes a VERRRRy long time and I have only been moderately successful at making it look so-so. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted September 22, 2007 Hash Fellow Share Posted September 22, 2007 the latter part of this discussion of "the door is stuck" shows how to add new animation after an action. shaggyanddoormp4b.mov Welcome to A:M! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineSoup Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 the latter part of this discussion of "the door is stuck" shows how to add new animation after an action. shaggyanddoormp4b.mov Welcome to A:M! Sorry to resurrect an old post like this, but I ran across this recently and am thoroughly grateful for the video link on this topic. Very instructive. That said, I'm having a hard time duplicating one of the steps and feel like the reason is a simple one. When I insert the first keyframes (feet and hips, for example) into the second choreography action, these body parts reset themselves to the default position: feet flat and side by side with hips centered above them. I'm not quite sure what step I'm missing to keep these bones in position when I key them. I'm so close I can taste it! Apologies again for dredging up the post and thank you. The video really is great. Chris =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 8, 2009 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 8, 2009 The scary thing is I thought I did that just a few months ago, but it's been nearly a year and a half. That said, I'm having a hard time duplicating one of the steps and feel like the reason is a simple one. When I insert the first keyframes (feet and hips, for example) into the second choreography action, these body parts reset themselves to the default position: feet flat and side by side with hips centered above them. I'm not quite sure what step I'm missing to keep these bones in position when I key them. I'm so close I can taste it! Hmmm... This is happening when you "force" the keyframes on these body parts? first guess... make sure the "Compensate Mode" button (near top of A:M ) is not on. Aside from being used to make constraints have an offset, it can be used with the keyframe button to reset bones to default positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineSoup Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Hmmm... This is happening when you "force" the keyframes on these body parts? first guess... make sure the "Compensate Mode" button (near top of A:M ) is not on. Aside from being used to make constraints have an offset, it can be used with the keyframe button to reset bones to default positions. In version 15 the compensate button appears to be off by default when forcing a keyframe so I tried a couple different approaches, turning it on at first and then another take where I toggled it on to off before making my keys. Both tries yielded the same result and the keyed elements snapped into a neutral position like before. I also looked at toggling the Key Other and Key Constraints buttons. All three transformation key buttons are on. I haven't seen any notable differences yet. I had a successful test when I manually nudged the individual bones (translation and rotation as needed) that I wanted to animate. It worked, but doing this for a whole character rig is time prohibitive, naturally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 8, 2009 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 8, 2009 In version 15 the compensate button appears to be off by default when forcing a keyframe so I tried a couple different approaches, turning it on at first and then another take where I toggled it on to off before making my keys. Both tries yielded the same result and the keyed elements snapped into a neutral position like before. I had heard that it was automatically on when making a constraint so I thought maybe it's stuck. But no. So I'm doubtful this is a V15 problem, I haven't heard anyone else have this trouble. I also looked at toggling the Key Other and Key Constraints buttons. You have those OFF, of course. All three transformation key buttons are on. I haven't seen any notable differences yet. I had a successful test when I manually nudged the individual bones (translation and rotation as needed) that I wanted to animate. It worked, but doing this for a whole character rig is time prohibitive, naturally. That is plan B and I used to do it that way before I knew about multiple selecting and forcing keyframes. So it can be done. If you do it this way you have to remember to nudge the bone in every manner that you want it keyed... a translation nudge may not make rotation keyframes. Scale nudges are hard to do, but you rarely need scale anyway. Hard to know the problem without watching you do it. Post a screen grab (JPG or PNG) of your PWS before and after you force the keyframes. Maybe that will reveal something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeetman Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Not to sound dumb here but what he's discribing (if I'm understanding anyway) sounds like the red bar isn't in line with the keys maybe? If you move the red bar to where it's not in line with the keys on the timeline, it defaults to the original key channel. If the model has no keys, it will default to the arms out pose of the model. I could be wrong here but that's my take. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineSoup Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Here's a screencast of the process I'm going through. I go through the steps of creating and aligning a new chor action, and then selecting and keying the character. There's a little capture gizmo obscuring the bottom left corner of the screen but I describe the state of the buttons underneath it. You'll need a current version of flash to view it. http://www.screencast.com/t/SVa9SvL5V1t Hope this clarifies a bit! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 8, 2009 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 8, 2009 Things I notice, without them necessarily being the reason... -you're on a Mac rather than a PC -you're working in the Timeline Window timeline, rather than the PWS Window timeline -your new chor action was called "2" rather than "1" -when you force the keyframes, the feet shift, but don't look like they have actually gone to the default position. For example the left foot is pointing down which is not its default orientation. But after you walk Shaggy back a step and then forward again to the transition point the foot isn't pointing down anymore. I wonder why it changed. Embedd Shaggy in a PRJ, and then could you do the manuver again as you did it in your vid? Start from a blank, fresh PRJ. Save a PRJ just before you force the keyframes and save again just after you force the keyframes. zip them up and post them and perhaps something can be found by looking at them. No guarantees, as I have no clues. Not to sound dumb here but what he's discribing (if I'm understanding anyway) sounds like the red bar isn't in line with the keys maybe? That was my first thought but i couldn't quite get his result by messing those up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Hmmm...I notice funny things happening - I wonder if the length of your chor action 1 is resetting to something other than what you set it. EG I notice when I just tried (15e) pc that sometimes if I start with a clean chor and 1 model and 1) add a chor action for this model - 2) set length of chor action to go from 0-12, 3) move foot null on frame 12, 4) start new chor action, move this new chor act to go from eg 12-24 - then the length of chor action 1 will have changed and will have extended itself to overlap with chor action 2 Check to see that the chor action ranges are really where you set them - you might have to reset them Edited January 8, 2009 by NancyGormezano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineSoup Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Things I notice, without them necessarily being the reason... -you're on a Mac rather than a PC This could cause unique problems, certainly. I could access a PC version in a pinch but it's not a primary course of action for me. -you're working in the Timeline Window timeline, rather than the PWS Window timeline Is there a significant difference in function between the two...other than the Timeline Window being contextual based on the current selection? -your new chor action was called "2" rather than "1" I've found that A:M has been occasionally re-numbering my chor actions, sequentially, moving from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. I started with a clean slate and got these numbers. This is why my new action was numbered "2" -when you force the keyframes, the feet shift, but don't look like they have actually gone to the default position. For example the left foot is pointing down which is not its default orientation. But after you walk Shaggy back a step and then forward again to the transition point the foot isn't pointing down anymore. I wonder why it changed. Actually, I'd never seen the foot-pointing-down thing before I recorded the screencast. Occasionally the body parts move strangely upon the key creation and then moving forward and backward in time put them back in their proper place. I wonder about this, too but so far it hasn't caused any real hassle. Thank you for the detailed troubleshooting idea. I'll give this a shot and upload the file this evening if it's still messing up. Maybe it will work on a PC. That would be irritating. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineSoup Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Attached are two projects in a zip archive: before and after states of the aforementioned action blending process. The only difference, as Robcat suggested, is that the second one has had the keys for the second action set. Beyond this, I haven't done anything to the files. Chris Action_Blend_Test.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale_The_Bold Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I asked a similar question (Walking and Waving, then Continue Walking) about a year ago and I got this helpful reply from John Bigboote: I would make a walk-cycle action, then in choreography set the choreography action to 'add' instead of the default 'replace' then animate the waving action there, and you will be able to see how the 2 actions interact. Copy and paste the keyframes from the 'normal' arm and hand positions at the end of the wave and the walk cycle should remain uninhindered. THEN- you could save THAT performance as an action, bring it back in the chor and continue to add to it. Build it up. Thank you again, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineSoup Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Dale, Eureka again! John's method is a good way to get overlapping and secondary animation to operate smoothly but it isn't exactly the issue in this case where an action ends and another takes over where the first left off. That said, your advice led to a solution. Changing the 2nd chor action blend method from Replace to Add fixes the problem. Attached are two movies, one using the method from the tutorial video with no modifications, the second is the same with the blending mode changed to Add. This makes sense, since the initial action (the walk) is holding its last frame. As long as it does this, any action added on top will work smoothly. The only short coming I can think of with this is if one were to try and package this new action up and reuse it elsewhere you'd have something incomplete, because it relies on another action to get the model in place to begin with. This solution made a lot of people happy at my school today. Hoo-rah! Chris ShaggyBlendAct1.mov ShaggyBlendAct2.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted January 10, 2009 Admin Share Posted January 10, 2009 Chris, Welcome to the forum! I'm trying to figure out a good way to say 'thanks for having that problem'. The solution you've arrived at is something I wish could be added to the original tutorial video. It covers the basic setup of the two actions but doesn't attempt to go beyond that or get into troubleshooting. (Its great we've got the forum for that!) Great use of Jing to capture your screen. In the image intensive world of computer animation we really need to leverage that technology. One thing I've learned from visiting the forum today is that we need to make more mistakes! Then at least we'll know what we are learning. Nicely resolved Mr Bill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 10, 2009 Hash Fellow Share Posted January 10, 2009 If it works it works, but it really ought to work with "replace", so to me it's still a mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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