organization question

[alano]

I'm working on a short film using AM and I'm interested to know how people organize their projects and chors. My short, like most, has a number of shots that need to be animated using a fairly consistent group of objects (characters, props, scenery, lights etc). I've started by making each shot a chor in one single project: if I was to have 12 shots, I would have 12 chors in that project. I am rethinking this since I've noticed that each chor seems to get stuffed into memory whether I'm working on it or not. So my question is, how do you take your scenes and shots and organize them into projects and chors?

 

Thanks,

 

Alan

[Dhar]

I'd make each scene a project. That way, if a project gets corrupted (and it is known to happen) you don't loose the entire project. That's why the TWO project is a great learning experience to see how a movie is made

 

Good luck.

[c-wheeler]

I recently did a short film set in an office.

Mini movie contest

 

All files needed where kept in a folder specifically for that project, since it was to be rendered on a number of machines without using net render.

The folder structure was similar to that used by Rusty Williamson(Thanks Rusty if your reading this-also thanks for the work you shared on resetting compensates). I wont post that, but basically if you keep everything together on a flash drive, you can easily switch between one machine and another.

 

In the project file I first set up the office with all the props etc, including all the buildings outside, but no lighting since the time of day was to change symbolically from morning to midnight and back to morning again.There were also props like a clock and calender that had to be set to different settings for each scene.

 

This was then saved outside the project as a _base cho file, and imported it back into the project as each scene was set up.

 

Once this was done for each scene the camera movement was set up, things like the clock and calender where adjusted to take into account changing days and times, the character was positioned (NOT ANIMATED) and lighting was then added.

Then everything not in shot was removed to cut down render times and conserve memory.This was then saved and renamed as scene_1,_2 etc.

 

I had already worked out a production schedule from the storyboard, so I knew that some scenes had similar lighting and setup, so once I had lit one scene, say scene_1, I was able to delete everything other than the lights and save this as scene_1_lighting.cho, then work on setting up the next scene.

When I was subsequently working on a scene with similar lighting or setup, I would then import the lighting .cho file into the scene and adjust accordingly or just import the whole scene.

 

Once I had setup and lit each scene, I generated a screen shot, and added this to the production sheet. This gave an indication of progress.

 

The animation was then completed in a number of passes.

I include the production schedule for general interest.

 

Hope this helps a little

Chris

[rusty]

An animation project can generate hundreds if not thousands of files! Organization is very important. You might want to check out these threads. I had put my own animation project folder structure up on the web... I think the link was mentioned in these threads and I think it is still out there.

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=111818

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=240820

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=210792

 

Cheers,

Rusty

[alano]

Thanks for the tips all. I think I'm going to keep on with one chor per shot and limit the number of chors loaded into the project to 1 or 2 at a time. I'll be rendering the chors one at time anyway so this should keep the overhead low while keeping all the objects, decals etc handy in the overall project. This should work fine for my one-man short where I don't need all the organizational overhead a larger multi-person project would require.

 

Alan

[rusty]

Thanks for the tips all. I think I'm going to keep on with one chor per shot and limit the number of chors loaded into the project to 1 or 2 at a time. I'll be rendering the chors one at time anyway so this should keep the overhead low while keeping all the objects, decals etc handy in the overall project. This should work fine for my one-man short where I don't need all the organizational overhead a larger multi-person project would require.

 

Alan

 

For true multi-persons you need a lot more then the linked material show here. This material is for one person with a fairly steady stream of small to medium size projects (1 to 5 minutes of video) who might on occasion work with someone else.

 

Going without a file system is a breeze for first 4 to 10 months or so... depending on what you're doing. But slowly with gaining momentum you'll find yourself spending more and more of your time looking for files -- and/or opening projects looking that embedded material you spent so much time creating. Or going nuts trying to open a project you last worked on a couple of weeks ago; searching for files, correcting dozens of image links because you happen to move or remove some seemingly unused folders. After a year 80% or more of you're time will go to looking for stuff.

 

Or... I could be wrong... this was my experience and that of many others as well. Perhaps you'll only do small projects -- like what john3d does. I know John well and worked with him for years. He had no consistent organization for his files and he gets by... though perhaps 2 or 3 times a year he'll have to spend days looking for a file. Or, perhaps you'll realize your mistake early on or grow into some system as you go that's mostly the same from project to project.

 

My very first project with AM -- Mantis -- I had no organization. I started Mantis, then got into other stuff for six months -- easy to do -- then returned to it. I'm not kidding you, I spent over two months trying to find stuff; where are those renders, the reset of the scene or shot, that series of images, or materials, or relinking project files. I was trying to save the work I'd already done. At the end of that period I decided to cut my losses; I salvaged perhaps 3 scenes out of 16... I moved out the dozen or so scenes I couldn't figure out and started from stretch on them. My second project had an organization system but it was half ass and I paid for that too. My 3rd project I had my shit together and from that moment, no problems; I knew exactly where every and any file would be, no matter what project, no matter how mush time passed and image links were never again broken. In fact, for projects, I know exactly were I left off and what needs to be done next.

 

Do yourself a favor sooner rather then later get the following zip and look it over, it takes care of everything. You'll think way too much at first but later you'll feel less this way.

 

 

http://www.virtualmediastudios.com/00_VMS%...%20Template.zip

 

The best 15 Mb file you'll ever download (not because its better then anyone else's but because your downloading something to use). Both my new and older 'file structure' is are included you'll see the difference. You put this somewhere and make it Read Only then you make a copy of it for any new project you start. Always use a copy! Rename the top folder to the project name. Once you start a project never move the project folder. In the Models and Scenes folders are Model and Scene standard file structure templates that you do the same thing for models and scenes. Oh, same goes for Shots I think.

 

That's my 2 cents and if I've talked you into using some kind of standard file organization... that you always use project to project... then I've just done you a huge favor!

 

Cheers,

Rusty

[alano]

Thanks Rusty, but I guess I didn't put my original question quite right. My models, decals, actions etc are organized into folders inside one project folder in the root directory of my hard drive even for a small project (5-6 min) like this. When I'm done with the project, the entire project folder will be archived to data DVDs where I can easily find whatever I need again. My problem was that my AM project file loads all the chors into memory when it loads. I suspect this slows down the response of my computer when I'm animating in a new chor. My solution is to save the chors I'm done with (for the time being anyway) and delete them from the project so that only one chor gets loaded into memory at a time. When I'm ready to change something or render, I'll load that chor back into the project and then delete it again when through. I also wanted to know how people translate the filmmaking concepts of shots and scenes into the AM concepts of projects and chors. For example, do people put more than one shot into a chor or use multiple project files for a single scene? A shot per chor and a scene per project file seems right to me in most cases, but I recognize that others might have found a better way.

 

Alan

[rusty]

Thanks Rusty, but I guess I didn't put my original question quite right. My models, decals, actions etc are organized into folders inside one project folder in the root directory of my hard drive even for a small project (5-6 min) like this. When I'm done with the project, the entire project folder will be archived to data DVDs where I can easily find whatever I need again. My problem was that my AM project file loads all the chors into memory when it loads. I suspect this slows down the response of my computer when I'm animating in a new chor. My solution is to save the chors I'm done with (for the time being anyway) and delete them from the project so that only one chor gets loaded into memory at a time. When I'm ready to change something or render, I'll load that chor back into the project and then delete it again when through. I also wanted to know how people translate the filmmaking concepts of shots and scenes into the AM concepts of projects and chors. For example, do people put more than one shot into a chor or use multiple project files for a single scene? A shot per chor and a scene per project file seems right to me in most cases, but I recognize that others might have found a better way.

 

Alan

 

Oh my goodness. The way I do it (and I'm pretty sure the way everyone does it) is one chor per project file. Very scene, in fact every shot... hell every plate has its own project file (and its own folder). You try to put all your work into a single project file by using separate chors and you're going to running very slow.

 

r

[c-wheeler]

I should have said somewhere in my epic e-mail - Its only one cho per shot. Since the cho loads each scene, I just start a new prj file each time.

[alano]

Ah, this makes more sense now. I used AM some years ago for a short, but I wasn't smart enough to haul my archive out to see how I did it then. The program seems to beg to be used as a project file for a scene (a continuous span of time in one location) consisting of at least one shot per chor. Obviously for technical reasons this doesn't work well accept in the case where the scene only has one shot. So a wise move would be to create a master project file for each scene with all the objects, materials, actions etc needed and copy it x times for the x shots required and rename them accordingly before setting out to do setups and animating, yes?

 

Thank you all very much.

 

Alan

[rusty]

Ah, this makes more sense now. I used AM some years ago for a short, but I wasn't smart enough to haul my archive out to see how I did it then. The program seems to beg to be used as a project file for a scene (a continuous span of time in one location) consisting of at least one shot per chor. Obviously for technical reasons this doesn't work well accept in the case where the scene only has one shot. So a wise move would be to create a master project file for each scene with all the objects, materials, actions etc needed and copy it x times for the x shots required and rename them accordingly before setting out to do setups and animating, yes?

 

Thank you all very much.

 

Alan

 

Sounds right. You should download that zip file (url in previous post). If you're on Windows and have MS Office, not only does this project folder template contain pre-named resource folders and sub-folders but also:

= model, scene, shot and set folder templates (each is found in corresponding sub-folders)

= EXCEL Tracking and Control files for the project, models, scene, set, shot, plates

= Inside the above Workbook is a spreed sheet setup for storyboard creation that is quite sophisticated. There are columns for every aspect of animation creation. Using the auto-filter you can extract information like the dialog for each character and lists can be created for needed scenes, sets, models, characters, wardrobe and much more.

= MS Project template for an Animation project (uses RUP again)

= readme files containing documentation on usage

 

All of the above was designed in 2002 based on the Rational Unified Process and my own experiences with control structures and project management. Since its conception, it has been used for each of the 5 animation projects I've completed and has under-gone review and refinement during each project and at the end.

 

The zip file will remain on-line for 5 days or, through 9/10/2007.

 

Cheers,

Rusty

[alano]

Thank you Rusty, but I couldn't download it.

 

Alan

[ypoissant]

Thank you Rusty, but I couldn't download it.

I corrected spaces in the URL. Try again.

[alano]

I've got, thanks.

 

Alan