SPHERICAL LIMITS...

[Kelley]

What has to be activated for Spherical Limits is show up in the Properties?

[robcat2075]

What has to be activated for Spherical Limits is show up in the Properties?

 

If you create a relationship that bone is used in then the manipulator options and limits become avaiable, but only in the properties for that relationship.

[Kelley]

Relationships? It's just one damned thing after another! [but Thanks!]

[robcat2075]

Relationships? It's just one damned thing after another! [but Thanks!]

 

You probably don't have to make a new relationship; if you're animating the bone directly it's likely already in one of your rigging relationships.

 

If you need to limit the movement of a bone that you don't animate directly (say, a middle spine bone) then use a spherical or euler constraint.

[Kelley]

robcat: Thanks for your come-back. Here's what I'm trying to do:

 

Everytime I install a 2001 Hash skeleton, and try to pick up the foot, the leg turns into a scrambled mess...flipping in all directions. I can avoid some of this by not lifting the foot, but by pulling down and then swinging it forwad like a pendulum, and then, lastly, adjusting the bend at the knee.

 

KenH was kind enough to bone two characters for me with TSM2, and while I had similar problems, they were much less.

 

In both cases the Toe Bones, and the Ankle Targets drift away from the mesh. Strangely, I've never had difficulties with any bones above the belt. [What is this telling me? If anything.]

 

But if I use a Hash model that comes with the A:M, the models act flawlessly, foot bones and Ankle Targets move right along with the mesh. So it's my hope that I can build a more stable model by installing Spherical Constraints. In reading the toot in A:M2000 I just discovered that Sperical Constraints are accessed in the Action Window. I had been in Bones Mode.

 

Howe're...I will appreciate any advice on this. And thanks again.

 

[attachmentid=16400]

[Stuart Rogers]

Everytime I install a 2001 Hash skeleton, and try to pick up the foot, the leg turns into a scrambled mess...flipping in all directions. ... In both cases the Toe Bones, and the Ankle Targets drift away from the mesh. Strangely, I've never had difficulties with any bones above the belt. [What is this telling me? If anything.]

I never could get on with the 'official' rigs. After so much frustration (probably a mind-set problem on my part) I forced myself to pull them apart, see what they were doing, and cook up my own rigs as best I could (I'm *nearly* at a rig I'm happy with). As for 'what is this telling me?' - probably that you're using FK for everything above the belt, and IK for everything below. BTW I came to the conclusion a long time back that spherical limits were almost never the solution to any biped rig problem.

[robcat2075]

Everytime I install a 2001 Hash skeleton, and try to pick up the foot, the leg turns into a scrambled mess...

Just that first sentence tells me "knee target Problem" Something has gone wrong in the constraints that tell the knee where to point. Perhaps as Stuart suggests you're mistaking FK for IK; that would create instant knee target trouble.

 

In both cases the Toe Bones, and the Ankle Targets drift away from the mesh. Strangely, I've never had difficulties with any bones above the belt. [What is this telling me? If anything.]

It's telling you you've installed the rig improperly or are using it improperly. I know you were careful, i know you read the directions but... you've altered a heirarchy, mistargeted a constraint, misnamed a bone, changed a pose from Off to On or vice versa... something easy to do, hard to track down on the limited info we have so far.

 

But if I use a Hash model that comes with the A:M, the models act flawlessly, foot bones and Ankle Targets move right along with the mesh.

That is additional confirmation that you changed somthing about the rig when installing it.

So it's my hope that I can build a more stable model by installing Spherical Constraints.

Since the Hash models dont' use them, you don't need to use them either, and they won't get you what you want anyway. Better to figure out what went wrong with the rig.

 

 

I used to recommend TSM to people so they could side step the rigging hassle, but then they'd complain when it didn't automatically smooth the joints or animate the character for them. I prefer it though.

 

But that doesn't mean the AM rig is broken to begin with.

[oakchas]

But... Wasn't there a problem with the 2001 rig with the Knight, and perhaps KeeKat? I 'member when I was doing TAOA:M excercises (the chorus line and It's a pitch) that at least Knight's Right leg went all wonky on me....

 

That doesn't answer the question, I know. But IIRC, there was a problem, and it was either the rig or the Knight... everybody had problems with it.. there was a fix, but darned if I rmember what it was. It may have been as simple as downloading the rig from Hash or a different Knight....

[Kelley]

(Robcat quote) Just that first sentence tells me "knee target Problem" Something has gone wrong in the constraints that tell the knee where to point. Perhaps as Stuart suggests you're mistaking FK for IK; that would create instant knee target trouble.

 

"Knee Target Problem" indeed. How to fix it? Is there a place where I can enter some constraint figures to keep the knee facing forward? As for the FK/IK confusion, I don't think I'm getting it wrong. At least, I don't think so. FK, as I understand it, would involve moving the Thigh Bone to its proper orientation, then the Shin Bone, then the Ankle, then the Toes. I have not been working from the top down. I've installed the rig and tried to lift the leg from the Foot Target. I have TSM2, and as Stuart pointed out, it is not the panecea that us newbies hope it would be.

 

In the rig I'm attempting right now, which is building bones up from scatch, how would I go about installing Knee and Foot Targets on Beast?

 

(Robcat quote) It's telling you you've installed the rig improperly or are using it improperly. I know you were careful, i know you read the directions but... you've altered a heirarchy, mistargeted a constraint, misnamed a bone, changed a pose from Off to On or vice versa...

 

I appreciate your faith in me here, and though it's posible that I got the instructions wrong, I know it's not from altering a hierarchy, etc., because it goes squirrely right from the very first. I never have a chance to mess with those possible pitfalls.

 

Do the Hash models use the 2001 rig, or do they go at it another way?

 

Thanks again for the advice.

[zandoriastudios]

there is a model (on extras CD?) called "Musana Warrior" that has a great quadruped leg setup like your model. If you could find it, I might help you see the way to rig your own--or you could just copy that rig.

[robcat2075]

As for the FK/IK confusion, I don't think I'm getting it wrong. At least, I don't think so. FK, as I understand it, would involve moving the Thigh Bone to its proper orientation, then the Shin Bone, then the Ankle, then the Toes. I have not been working from the top down. I've installed the rig and tried to lift the leg from the Foot Target.

But if your character is set to FK and you're trying to manipulate it as if it were IK... tangled mess

 

I have TSM2, and as Stuart pointed out, it is not the panecea that us newbies hope it would be.

I dunno... I've used it repeatedly to rig characters... they are completely well behaved. The limbs go exactly where I expect them to.

 

 

 

In the rig I'm attempting right now, which is building bones up from scatch, how would I go about installing Knee and Foot Targets on Beast?

 

Simplest possible IK-only Leg setup:

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&sh...ndpost&p=171898

 

I appreciate your faith in me here, and though it's posible that I got the instructions wrong, I know it's not from altering a hierarchy, etc., because it goes squirrely right from the very first. I never have a chance to mess with those possible pitfalls.

Post a character that you're sure you did right but isn't... we'll find out what is wrong

[Stuart Rogers]

I have TSM2, and as Stuart pointed out, it is not the panecea that us newbies hope it would be.

I dunno... I've used it repeatedly to rig characters... they are completely well behaved.

Can I point out that I didn't actually say anything about the TSM2 rig?

[robcat2075]

ok here...

 

30 minutes to model a simple figure on the same basic layout as your dinosaur

20 minutes to rig with TSM2

40 minutes to animate

 

 

[attachmentid=16426]

[attachmentid=16424]

 

Everything worked as I would expect it to. And I've never even used TSM's quadraped rig before!

 

I'm just not having any trouble placing any body part anywhere I need it to be at any time.

 

Of course, the simple geometry of my character meant I didn't have to do any fanboning, but from your description , that's not the trouble you are having.

 

TSM was designed by animators who have seen and used the very best that modern CG rigging has to offer and they use it themselves. If it did crazy whacky things for no good reason... they wouldn't put up with it for a millisecond.

 

As I was doing this, one thought came to me... is it possible some of your CPs are not properly assigned?

 

Even darker thought... Is it possible you haven't done the whole TSM process yet? Builder, Flipper and Rigger?

 

I want your dinosaur to work. Lets figure out why it doesn't.

dino9.zip

DinoJumpH.mov

[Kelley]

Again...Thank you all. Your responses are much appreciated. Let me say at the outset, that I work on a golf course grounds crew in the summer. During the winter I hibernate in front of a warm computer monitor and build models. The season has started for this year and I am coming home happily exhausted. [Getting back into shape] So the pace of my A:M work [and responses] may become a bit slower. But I have two essential goals: learning to build a stable rig, and getting Pose Sliders to work for me so I can get my 'Tubs' character talking. So:

 

[1] Will Sutton: I checked the A:M Extras CD and the 'Musana Warrior' does not seem to be there. Any other thoughts?

[2] Stuart Rogers: You're right. It was not you who made the comment, it was Robcat, and I think I read more into it than he intended. Sorry.

[3] Robcat: First, where might I go to check that my IK model is not in FK mode? Second, I will follow the links you gave me for examples/tutorials. It may take a few days to work through them now that I'm working. And lastly, I'm hand painting a texture for Beast. By the time that's done, I should have a trial rig installed. If I'm still having problems [as I darkly suspect I will] I'll post the model for inspection. And BTW, I printed out the instructions for TSM2 and while I thought I followed them to the letter, my results imply that I missed something.