Making my sig 3d

[JoshB]

The light is much better. I'm really liking this render.

 

Do me a favor.

 

Add a directional/sun light that is above the room aiming down to the floor. Be sure to turn cast shadows off. Make it slightly green. And, make the intensity low, you only want to lighten the darkness of the floor in the foreground a little.

 

What this should do is add more light to the room--specifically the floor--while maintaining the same low level light feel you have right now.

 

Also, do a wireframe render/screen capture of your scen from the side view so I can see your lighting setup.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

Dont have much to say now i havent had a chance to work on this but heres a different view.

[Newbert_Zero]

And another render....

[Mr. Jaqe]

Looki'n good! Now it's only missing a couple of fighters

[Newbert_Zero]

I put in the green light.... did i do it right? anyways here it is.

[Newbert_Zero]

Looki'n good! Now it's only missing a couple of fighters

Im gonna start animating very soon. i think though im gonna put somthing abouve the torch light that will look like this though.

[JoshB]

I put in the green light.... did i do it right? anyways here it is.

 

Yes

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

I made the torch flicker. Its really small with multipass. Im trying to make it my avatar but mov files arnt supported. I think the light looks better without multipass though. multi pass makes the light seem dimmer.

test.mov

[JoshB]

If you want it as your avatar render as tga then use flash (if you have it) or you can compose an animated GIF (but those aren't as nice, and they bog down my computer at work )

 

Looking good.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

What would i use to convert it to a Gif?

[Newbert_Zero]

oh and earlier Joshb you posted a picture the one i am attaching and it showes the light in the air also (volumetric) I cant get mine to do that. how do i fix it?

[Newbert_Zero]

oh and heres an update on the project if u want to look at it.

Swordfight_3d.prj

[JoshB]

To make volumetrics work you need to rethink the way you model. Here are some tutes to help you.

 

http://www.alienlogo.com/tincan/Spline1.htm

 

http://www.alienlogo.com/tincan/Spline2.htm

 

http://www.am-guide.com/TinCan/Room-tut.htm

 

The model you have is not a solid mesh--therefore, the volumetric effect is bleeding through your model.

 

Try those. Absorb the info. Particularly the information about continuous splines. This is the only way to make a complete model--right now your wall model is a series of floating patches.

 

Now the down side is when I said this is not the best way to model something I wasn't kidding. You won't be able to use volumetrics with this model the way it is. Even if you fix the non-continuous spline issues in this model will still not be a solid mesh.

 

Have you done the Art of AM yet? You may want to. Or, just forget about volumetrics for now.

 

But, definitely look at those tutorials linked above because you need to work on your modeling thought process. Don't be offended a lot of new users start modeling the way you are (a car grill pops to mind immediately ). Unfortunately it is not a good way to model. It increases your render times dramatically, your normals end up going in all sorts of directions, and you will get internal patches.

 

Which brings me to the image--you have to put this pline ring on the inside of the window otherwise you get internal patches and AM doesn't know what to do with your surface normals which plays havock with your render times.

 

Or, if you really want to use volumetrics you will want to use a different solution.

 

J

[JoshB]

Sorry for the second post just want to make sure I got your attention.

 

You won't be able to use volumetrics with this model the way it is.

 

I was wrong.

 

You will need to make two klieg lights that shine through the windows. Turn on volumetrics. Turn on shadows. Try to match the light as closely as possible to the one that your sun light makes. Then turn off shadows for the sun light.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

i used wall method 2 in the tutorial to make the whole in the wall. did i do it wrong?

 

my splines look like this though. maybe they just arnt running the right way.

[JoshB]

You will need to delete the spline that create patches on the back of the wall to get rid of the internal patches. That should do it. And, the volumetrics should work.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

its stilll not working.

Why is i so hard for me to understand splines?!?!?!?!?

 

 

oh well i guess i dont really need volumetrics.

[JoshB]

For volumetrics to work on this model. You need to use a klieg light. If you don't turn on shadows it will punch right through the wall because it isn't paying attention to the surfaces it hits. Then just stick it behind the window.

 

The problem I find with most people and splines, especially with inorganic models is they freak out when the splines connect and curve. So, they delete the end spline then create a spline that doesn't go around the bend with hanging cps--then deleting the hanging cps. What you should do is run the spline as far as you can--let it curve--you can fix that later. Get the complete spline done--then hit peak. And, you'll get the look you wanted.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

i think im gonna study splines a bit more before i fix the wall....again.

 

But for now i got this. I still need to model the two swords behind it though.

tell me if you like it with or without this.

[Newbert_Zero]

just another render..... i got to go to bed.

[jesshmusic]

This is starting to look alright. I can't offer advice right now because I have been cleaning the old house getting it ready to sell and my brain is fried.

[Newbert_Zero]

ahh. just did a mov render of the camera zooming out over night i woke up and it said out of memory. the movie was 201mb how is it 201 mb. i thought it would be like 20 or somthing but 201? it was only 5 seconds long too. I have a movie saved on my computer thats 5 minutes long and its 21mb. I dont understand why file sizes are so random.

 

 

PLEASE dont tell me its because of my splines....

[JoshB]

Looks good so far.

 

Something about the proportions of this room are bothering me now with shield added. I'm noticing a lot more. The windows seem too large for the walls, the shield seems too large compared to the torch and the wall--usually it is not a real shield placed on the wall it is a coat of arms and smaller than a real shield. Maybe it's just early and I'm being nitpicky.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

Something about the proportions of this room are bothering me now with shield added. I'm noticing a lot more. The windows seem too large for the walls, the shield seems too large compared to the torch and the wall--usually it is not a real shield placed on the wall it is a coat of arms and smaller than a real shield.

I see what ur saying. i had it like that at first but i made it almost smaller than the torch. i was tired and made it way to big after that. Ill ajust it later.

 

I think im gonna either change the decals or make them smaller. I like the feel the decals give but they look kindoff boring and repetitive cause the whole room is covered with the same decal. maybe ill cover the walls with castle bricks. and the floor will be like dirt or somthing.

[JoshB]

ahh. just did a mov render of the camera zooming out over night i woke up and it said out of memory. the movie was 201mb how is it 201 mb. i thought it would be like 20 or somthing but 201? it was only 5 seconds long too. I have a movie saved on my computer thats 5 minutes long and its 21mb. I dont understand why file sizes are so random.

 

This has nothing to do with splines. When you render you are creating an image. Therefore, depending on your settings it will increase or decrease your file size. Use quicktime. Go into the setting set them to high. And, use the sorenson3 video compressor and it will be much smaller. From the sounds it's either an avi file or your quicktime file is uncompressed.

 

For me to give you the real answer you will have to tell me more. What size were rendering--obviously an image the is 1024x768 will be a much larger movie file than say 512x384? AVI, MOV, or TGA--different images/sequences take up different amounts of space? What compressor if any? How long was the sequence? Stuff like that.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

Ok... It was quicktime. it was uncompressed...wait a minute how would compressing it jump it down to under 50mb without making it a huge blur? other mov files ive made with Am are only like 2 or 3 seconds long and alot of them are under 1mb!

I made the video slightly larger then vga but still it was only like 100 more pixels in lengh and width.

What really bothers me is i have another short quicktime video file thats like 3 minutes long and its only 28mb its about the same size as mine and it appears as if the quality is fine. compare that to mine. 5 SECONDS long and its like 7 times larger in file size.

[JoshB]

Ok... It was quicktime. it was uncompressed...wait a minute how would compressing it jump it down to under 50mb without making it a huge blur? other mov files ive made with Am are only like 2 or 3 seconds long and alot of them are under 1mb!

 

Compressors are like various image file types. Each has a mathematical algorithm and a method to read it so that it uncompresses. Think of it like this. Make an image in PS or some oher paint program. Save it as a PSD, a TIF, a JPEG, and a BMP. Each one will be different in size because each uses a different algorithm to save it--which various software can then read later. Similar to zip files. When you render a quicktime at full blast there is no compression which means each frame is left mathematically the same as it was when it was created. Most of the time this is unnecessary because the differences are only noticeable to the computer. For instance, the R value in the third pixel from the right uncompressed is set to 244, compressed it's 246.

 

I made the video slightly larger then vga but still it was only like 100 more pixels in lengh and width.

What really bothers me is i have another short quicktime video file thats like 3 minutes long and its only 28mb its about the same size as mine and it appears as if the quality is fine. compare that to mine. 5 SECONDS long and its like 7 times larger in file size.

 

VGA=640x480 you made your 740x580. Now I'm going to try to get technical--I wish I wasn't because this is not my area of experitise--but in general this is my understanding of images in CG. Say you have a square of red. This red sqare is the same color all the way through. Therefore, when it is saved the computer says from point A to B this is the color I need to be and from points C and D this is the color I need to be. If you're a programmer type it would look something like this:

 

A location = 0, 0

B location = 0, 4

C location = 4, 0

D location = 4, 4

 

Set color (0, 0; 0,4; 4,0; 4,4) = red

 

Now, the more complex the image the more time the computer has to do this. Therefore, if you render something that is pretty flat in color--not a lot of bump maps, no real variations in color, and a solid color for the background the computer doesn't have to do all that. From what I understand of uncompressed images the computer calculates a per pixel color NOT an area of color.

 

For instance the image at the bottom goes like this. Solid red on the left saved as a jpeg at 12 quality. The one of the right has a noise filter placed to give it some variation save in the same manner. Notice the difference?

 

J

[Rodney]

Josh,

Great explaination!

 

Now add in changes from frame to frame that are designed to be there!

 

I wouldn't recommend testing your action/animated scenes with complex backgrounds. Rather I would suggest maximum simplicity first... then add detail later.

 

Consider compositing the characters over a single background image repeated throughout (as a rotoscope for instance). Even then you'll get differences in each frame but the compression should be much better.

[Newbert_Zero]

wow.....

 

thanks for taking your time to explain that to me. I really apreciate it. the problem is is that i dont have sorenson so i dont really have anything to compress it with. exept AM. do you know of any free programs that would compress mov files? I have windows movie maker that works with basicly everything exept mov files.

is there also some free program that converts avi to mov?

 

again i apretiate you taking the time to explain all this stuff to me.

[JoshB]

If you have a version of quicktime later than 4, I think (can't remember when sorenson3 was added to it) it comes with a version of the compressor. What you need to do is in AM you have to select quicktime as your output. The click the little triangle to open the options for it. Click on set (sometimes you have to click multiple times). It will open a new window. From the drop down select sorenson video 3. Then the quality slider is similar to that of the JPEG saving option in PS. Be sure your frames per second match the frame rate of your chor. Keyframe intervals aren't important here (at least I've never noticed a major difference when playing with this). Hit okay. Set your other options and you're done.

 

thanks for taking your time to explain that to me.

 

We are using one of the most underplayed CG applications available. The documentation is more limited than others. Therefore, if we don't help each other--who will?

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

wow i didnt know AM had sorensen in it. thanks for explaining that to

[Newbert_Zero]

do me a favor and compare these two. wich one looks better?

 

right or left?

 

studies show if you chose right you have an IQ of 6.

[starwarsguy]

I think they look the same so.... Right?

[Mr. Jaqe]

Kyle: Nononononooo, details, my friend, details! Look at the details! I like the left one best since it's darker, but you might wanna use the right one since your scene has an "evening mood"

[Newbert_Zero]

they are acually EXACLTY the same... so you both have an IQ of 6.

 

COUGHjustkiddingCOUGH

 

 

they are slightly different.

[JoshB]

They look like different compression methods of the same image--just my thoughts.

 

The one on the left has a slightly higher range to it from dark to light. Pay attention to the highlights specifically. The one on the left has brighter highlights (specifically with the seal of the shield) while the one on the right has more muted colors.

 

Just my observations.

 

Which do I like better?

 

Either one is fine--they are so similar it isn't worth discussing.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

ok this is the real difference. decals. one i thought was slightly off so i just moved it over a little. the first time i also decaled some parts seperatly. so the only difference was the decals.

 

it was interisting though to see what you guys thought about it.

anyways the sheild and sword model is complete so im gonna put it on the wall then render it soon.

[starwarsguy]

I still don't think it'll make much difference to viewers.

[Newbert_Zero]

i know i was just having a little bit of fun. before i rendered it i thought it would be more of a difference but i guess it wasnt.

[Newbert_Zero]

oh crap please tell me this isnt happining.... i lost it... i lost the whole project. HELP! oh no. I lost. it all... i was almost done with setting it up too....

[Newbert_Zero]

oh good i scared the mess outof me for no reason. i didnt lose anything exept my old model of the sheild. i didnt even need it anyway. i just downloaded my uploaded project file.

 

i put the sheild with swords on the wall now. tell me if the sheild/swords are to big or to small.... and how it looks

[Newbert_Zero]

heres a full shot.

[Newbert_Zero]

....Im so lazy. I need to start animating.

[steve392]

That doese look good with that lighting ,nice job

[starwarsguy]

Yeah, it looks good. The only thing I'd suggest is working on the wall texture a bit.

[Newbert_Zero]

Yeah, it looks good. The only thing I'd suggest is working on the wall texture a bit.

ya i agree with you i need a different wall texture or at least adjust it.

 

 

thanks for the comments

[JoshB]

Do me a favor.

 

Do a screen capture from top view filling as much of the screen with the layout as you can. I want to see something. Or, post the project file.

 

Looks good though. You may want to take the decal you have (if it is seamless) set the repeat value to 6 or something and turn seamless on. This will reduce the size of the bumps which are definitely too large.

 

....Im so lazy. I need to start animating.

 

HA! I'm spending more time solving other people's problems than I am working on my own stuff. How lazy is that? Actually I just don't want to get too involved in my stuff because I lose all track of time--and got too much other stuff to do.

 

J

[Mr. Jaqe]

HA! I'm spending more time solving other people's problems than I am working on my own stuff. How lazy is that? Actually I just don't want to get too involved in my stuff because I lose all track of time--and got too much other stuff to do.

 

J

I'm not sure if I would call spending time solving other peoples problems lazyness... Btw, this scene is really beginning to take shape! Still needs a couple of fighters though *nag* *nag*

[JoshB]

I'm not sure if I would call spending time solving other peoples problems lazyness...

 

Sorry should've specified further. I want to be a creative director or technical director when I finally bust onto the scene--so, it is very enjoyable to help people out it just doesn't take a lot of effort for me. It's a Freudian way of avoiding my own work. Which I am going to take a break from the forum for a little while here soon to get cracking.

 

But, first I have to finish what I started.

 

It really is looking good. The shield is a good size. I'm mostly wanting to look at the lighting setup your are using to see what can be done about a couple of areas that I think could be improved. I am looking forward to seeing this animated though.

 

J

[Newbert_Zero]

ok heres the project file.

Swordfight_3d_please_work.prj