Pengy Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Hello all: I'm trying to come up with an old leather material for a pilots helmet and bomber jacket I'm working on. This is what I have so far I think its pretty close but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsguy Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Well, if you're going for realistic, you need to add the lines and indentations (not just smooth brown) and specularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Thanks for the advice Kyle that was just a half a sphere I used to check the material. I changed the colours of the material(funny how thinks get clearer after you step away for a while. Started working on the helmet..loads to do still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Well... Closer detail would be needed to make a good critique. If however you wouldn't see it any closer than this... I would have to say it doesn't look much like leather yet. If it were me... I would probably use an image decal rather than a material especially if you want it to look worn and used. With an image you could create the wear patterns and bump map from the texture. You could probably find some photos of leather on the web, or you could even photograph some if you have a digital camera. This is just my opinion. If you like how the material works than go for it. Does need some more specularity and a slight bump. You may want to also use the same bump map and modify it for specularity... to break up the highlight as it does on real leather. Vernon "!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshB Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 The issue I have with photgraphing leather (despite being a BIG fan of using photographed textures) is that it is difficult to get a neutral light--thus, you get specular highlights where they aren't needed. Therefore, for a leather-like effect I used a colored material with the specular size, falloff, and intensity set the way I want and then add a bump map. You can use the materials used in the famous babbage water tutorial to get a decent bump map then just resize, make tilable, and place. I would also recommend [digital] texturing and painting. While he uses that other software the same effects can be achieved within AM by tweeking the afore mentioned variables. Also, depending on how worn you want the leather to be I would also recommend taking the base leather color you want into PS (or some other paint program) and mucking it up a bit (difference clouds, and a little airbrush). Right now the leather is too clean. As odd as this sounds: Think about where the hats been. Is it new or old? How many times has the owner stepped, sat, or otherwise beat this thing up? Also, how real do you want it to be? etc. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Thanks for the input guys. I'm actually going to do it the hard way and work on the material. I've gone the decal route and this time, since there's no time limit, I thought I'd push myself to learn how to use Master's materials better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpeak2 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 You can drop the same material on the group a second time and in the properties of the material shortcut add a bump percentage to it and the two materials will match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sculptorpro Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Why don't you try Darkling Simulations Syymbiont, they ara free plugin materials and have adjustment controls. Attached a pic of some leather coat I am trying to make and the controls available with the plugin. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ...The issue I have with photgraphing leather... is that it is difficult to get a neutral light--thus, you get specular highlights where they aren't needed.... Put it on a scanner! You get more overall lighting on a scanner plus you can get some really high resolution images. I rolled a tomato on a scanner once... keep some paper towels handy. Good luck with the leather material Pengy. Vernon "!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsguy Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Wow, sculptorpro! That pretty good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Forwood Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Photograph the leather on an overcast day or with controlled light through a diffuser or just take out all the highlights in Photoshop. Actually, Vern's idea is probably the quickest and should give excellent results but you're still going to have to do some PS work to get the wrinkles and creases in the right places for your decal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshB Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I know it's possible I was just saying it's difficult/annoying. You could also place to lights on either side at a 45 degree angle which will balance lighting on either side. But, why wait for an overcast day (the scanner is a handy tool to keep around). I was just thinking you slap a fractal sum or some other combiner render and poof--you got your bump layer for PS. But, as vern said good luck with it. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Still Plugging away..redid the material again. I also applied a second instance of it as a bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsguy Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Not bad! I still think it needs more crumples though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 My suggestion would be to add some of those "lined groove" things as a bump. These are not exactly wrinkles but those subtle patterned "grooves" that are characteristic of leather. I would use that cell turb thingy, just as a bump. a reverse bump. Use black and white as the two attributes and play around with the settings. These lines would go "in" to the surface and be very subtle. I am fascinated with this and just might give it a go myself just for fun. Vernon "!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Thanks Vern. I was just going to decal a bump for the wrinkles but if I can use all materials for the skin that'd be great. I really like the colouring on this 1. The other one had smaller specks and wasn't as noticeable. I'd look forward to seeing what you'd come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Didn't spend to much time on it... it started coming back to me why I use image decals for this stuff! So much more control. Plus it takes much longer to render than decals with the same result. Anyway here is my quick test. I have two materials, one for bump, and a modified one for color. I used a kind of complicated material with several levels of cellturb combiners. I have an overall turb combiner (I forget which one I used) at the top level scaled very large that sort of "blends" two (actually four) slightly different sets of cellturb combiners to create a less regualar pattern. That is one of the things about materials I don't like... very hard to put non fake looking subtle variations in the texture without a lot of effort. I mixed two sets of cellturb/threshhold to get the wrinkles. I then nested a cellturb/webbed in reverse in one of those combiners to get the pimply bumps on the skin. So the wrinkles and bumpies are in the same bump material. There is pretty subtle detail in the bump which is hard to see in this image. I am not very experienced with nested materials, and just couldn't get those fine multiple wrinkle lines characteristic of leather. You know... the lines that are like "sketchy" right next to each other. Well... at least not so I was satisfied... I get to obsesive about realism with these things. Normally I could do this in photoshop much faster... and better. The inset is not a larger render... I cheated and just scaled up a section in photoshop. The main render took 18 minutes (slow machine)... I didn't feel like doing another one. I will post the material if you would like it. Need to get some sleepy sleep. Vernon "!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 18, 2005 Author Share Posted February 18, 2005 Not bad Vern I'd like to see how you set up the material please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modernhorse Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Great Vern. That's thick like a nice slice of bologna. Mmmmm ...bologna. I'd like to look at the material too. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 added another bump to try for the lines.mine's not quite as cracked as Vern's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 This is the image I'm using as a roto. Is there a way with bump maps and decals, without adding geometry to create the seams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 finally broke down and painted a bump map forthe cracks Also started my attempt at making the seams as you can see it was a failed attempt. I'm all ears if anyone has suggestions on how to make them better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modernhorse Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Pengy - I have no suggestion for you but will say that each pic you post looks better than the one before it. The ear pieces seem sort of dark and lack specularity as in your reference. Keep on! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Thanks Doug: I'm glad you think so. At this point it's all hit and miss, so many different aspects to concentrate on. If you mean the metal ear pieces I haven't messed with them at all yet. It is definately serving it's purpose as a teaching aid. Vern was totally right as usual, just taking my roto and using it to help decal would have been alot easier Ah well never hurts to have more options available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvern Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Sorry Pengy! I haven't forgotten about that material I created. I will post it very soon. Got busy with something else... and writing all of these posts takes so much of my free time! As for the seams on the leather... Man... in a perfect world... doing it with geometry would be great... and not as scary as you might think. It would mean of course breaking apart the helmet and extruding some extra splinage and folding it over... or... You could "reorganize" the splinage so you have at least 3 or 5 splines close together on a seam and then "bump" the middle one down. Use a bump map to accentuate it... ...okay that does sound scary... I did something a tiny bit similar in an image contest a few years back... the theme was toys 2001: http://www.hash.com/imagecontest/Sept01/19.jpg I used a bump and displacement map for the seams. the fabric was a texture... I... uh... I scanned the actual doll on a scanner by rolling it as the light moved along the glass. It worked quite well. The tricky thing with leather is that it is very thick and really needs to have the geometry altered to look "photorealistic". I suppose you have seen David Walkers winning entry for the mechanical contest? Man now that is nice leather... that creep... just kidding Dave! If you have enough patches (I think you do) try using a displacement map along with the bump map. This works very well. Just a subtle displacement with finer detail in the bump. You really just need a suggestion of a raised area. Also, to make it look even better, you should have a different color or wear pattern on the seams since they would get "rubbed" more. Here is the displacement map I used for the doll image: And this is the bump map: Vernon "!" Zehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengy Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Thanks you Vern I think that's exactly what I was looking for. My plan for the helmet other than learning is to use it for a not so realistic character. But, that being said it would be nice to have it as "realistic" as possible, ya never know when these things might come in handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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