alweb
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Hi ,
some updates on 2_09_X
latest anim is 2_09_06 and 07 ( combined)
SVN Project data are updated
Thanks
Al
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Maybe a "test revised character" should be done so we can test it with animation and see how it goes ?
Those who doesn't want or can't adjust their action should be able to stick with the original character.
Al
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Well,
The elegant way should be to correct the situation at character level, even if some adjustment would be needed further on animation work.
This also would be a " fantastic challenge and a good learning way to revise our animation work" hehehe ! just kidding with you Yves !
No seriously, Personnaly I had to revise all my Tin woodman animation cause Tin's shoulder-control bones has changed at character level,
So I can figure out the problem... but doing so ,I took this time to handle some other issues on my work and the final result is better.
Who can say that his anim work is perfect and final ? so it's never to late.
Beyond that ,scaling arm/forearm proportion individually is a working solution but will need extra "muscle cp" tweaking work to fix bad joints behavior when the scaled bone are rotated... Can we say that this is a better "time saving" workaround ? ...I'm not sure !
From my point of view , this is a "minor" change at character level...but of course mean a revision of all actions done with the character...
...that's the facts but at the same time, the overall results would be a better animation experience and a better look of the character.
Those specific characters are great but they will always keep a "newbie" look cause of that deformation.
Remain me small people with dwarfism who sometime have this problem.
The character I would recall to revision is : Klu-Klip , Woot , Loons , Yves mention Nimmie ( maybe it's less evident since the character is taller ? )
So that's all I have to say about that
I'll wait for a decision on that issue and will comply to it
I wanted to mention it clearly one time , now it's done ...sorry if this hurt some feeling
Al
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Hi,
I was aware that Woot's arm lenght was too short for my taste...
I mean the relative proportion of his arm with his forearm.
Personnally I scale Woot's arm bones in my animation work
(doing so, it will need some CP muscle mode adjustment )
I have mentioned this issue some months ago...(time past so fast !
)but since It hasen't been adressed , I've assumed that most of you find the character just fine ...
But I've noticed the same arm/forearm proportion issue in some other characters too
Mainly in klu-klip and loon...
So my questions are:
What do you think ?
Am I alone to experience and see this proportion issue ?
Is it a big problem for you ? or you find it just fine ?
Is it still time to fix this ? ( increasing arm lenght, keeping forearm same size )
hey thanks for your interest
Al
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Wow!
very nice ! all those pictures are great !
congratulation!
Al
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Ok thanks for the details about the shoulder_control bones David,
I've updated the new files to SVN.
So the shoulder should be ok ( I say this cause it sound funny to my ears! hehehe )
Al
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Ok ,Thanks for the infos Steve,
No big deal, I've corrected the situation on my local files, as you mentioned.
Sometime I start to animate by posing a character in a "basic pose" and doing so I would shrub the shoulder a bit , ... those shoulder_control keyframes remain as I move and pose the arms further in the animation .
...If it doesn't blend fine with the rig , I will just no more use the shoulder_control bones that way...
But if it's just a temporary update of the rig who had cause that, I will still use the shoulder_control as I did and update the SVN with my local corrected files.
Thanks
Al
Yes, you can use the shoulder control bones if you want-The problem was a while back David Simmons changed the rig, which screwed up any existing animation- (deleting the keys on those bones fixed the problem)
I thought that the rig changes had made the use of the shoulder control bones obsolete- what is it you are trying to do with them?
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Well the movie is a bit long to download I know...but it's a 18 sec clip so...
Also,
Is the scarecrow_proxy model have any facial rig?
The TW model have one...but the scarecrow_proxy.mdl shortcut don't react to facial.act
and I must switch to the final SC model to get some facial action...
Maybe it would be good to have facial rig set on proxy too ?
Al
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Hey David!,
I just drag and drop the facial/lipsych act you did of TW and Scarecrow on 2_09_04/05 choreo
And it works just fine !
see the attached movie.(6.97mb sorenson QT 360 X 202 )The results are quite good to me and easy to include in the choreo .
If you wish to add more of this stuff ,you have my two thumbs up to procede to same way.
BTW:If some people want to take a look at the files and on the overall structure of the choreo/action used , they're are very welcome , see the SVN project files of 2_09_4...just be carefull with the files)
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For now, I got this problem with the left/right_shoulder_control bone of TW.
No big deal , on my local files I've deleted the shoulder keyframes and correct the arms poses on TW act.
Maybe I should avoid using the shoulder_control bone ? ...will see, I'm waiting for some tips on that issue.
Thanks David ! nice work again
I would post more movie to show details if necessary
Al
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replying to myself;)
... my problem seem to be related with the Left / Right _shoulder_control bones
I got to delete that bone/keyframes on act files and pose the arms again.
Should we use that shoulder_control bones to pose the character or not ?
If not , they should be hided somewhere isn't it ?
thanks for any clue
I'll stay in stand-by on this issue before starting to delete the shoulder_control keyframe I've used.
Thanks
Al
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Hi,
I'm looking on act2 seq9 sc 2-3-4-5
I've just updated my files with SVN
I use AM 13.0r
I got some problem with Tin Woodman model , the shoulders rig or keyframe are looking bad.
(attached a picture of the problem)
Scarecrow and Woot seem to run fine.
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Is someone else have seen or experienced this problem with TW before ?
Is it something about a change on Tin Woodmans rig ?
Is it related to the AM version I use ?
Is TWO running only with AM 14 now ?
Thanks for any help cause I'm presently stuck on this.
...hope the act files won't be too much altered...
Alweb
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Hi David,
I'm not sure the .info files are necessary in SVN
personnally I never upload them...you got one in SC 05 (.act.info)
If someone can re-confirm if we should or not upload it...I'll appreciate
David , if you have added your .act on choreo , get us some QT render to show the result
if not I'll look at it as soon as I found some time
thanks
Alain
Yes, the files are up on SVN and your Project/Chor have been updated to include them (I hope - let me know if they haven't) I also added full TM and SC to your project so I could do the work. I haven't dropped them onto the Chor.Cheers
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David,
Have you updated the SVN with your files ?
Will you include them into my choreo ? or you wish that I
look at this myself ?
Nice work so far...
thanks a bunch
Al
critics and suggest : Avoid as possible to key the eyes balls and brows on words, try to key the idea behind the voice.
... to show what the character have in mind as he speak.
...it can be anything think of something funny (we're doing cartoon ! ) like suspicious , intrigued,surprised, skeptical , fearless etc...
...its not so important but pick one and keep it for the sentence or at least 3-4...5 seconds.
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Oh! I forget ,
David,
Tinman have his head lay down in his left hand at some time...
Maybe this should cause some distortion of the left cheek and eye?
I know he's made of tin and metal tin don't react as flesh would do but
... keep this is mind as you keys your facial emotion poses.
ok bye
Al
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Nice work David!
I think in the "my heart draaaaaag at me" ( not sure of the words sorry
)the mouth should stand drop open for a moment , so emotion would seem more
"desperate" ...with a loud mouth...if I base my impressions on what I heard .
no need much eyes and brow move here...he would say that sentence like if he
still in the moon...still thinking of Nimmie...so eyes and brow can stay fixe...see what I mean?
again nice shot David.
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A comment about facial animation:
May I mention something about the lipsynch and facial animation ?
... I think it is mucho importante... and well known
exemple:in a sentence a character as he speak start happy and finish sad.
Facial expression (emotion) of a character is much more important than the lipsynching of the mouth.
So the facial expression keyframes should be set first...
Once this keyframes are fixed you should have the basic timing of the facial animation, with the brow, eye blink, eyes moves etc.
and I include also some important mouth shape ...like an emphasis OOO or AAA sound, a full open mouth or rageous smile etc.
..you see?... keying the main sounds of the sentence...emotionally related but still not the lipsynch.
When this step is done, only then, add the lipshynch...with the detailed tongue and lips moves , P , M , N sound etc....
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**Note that if you do the detailed lipsynch in a separate action you can "blend" it on choreo to attenuate the mouth shapes as needed...
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Now,
I think peoples often start by the lipsych first and base there facial expressions with eyes and brow move on the lipsynch timing.
Most of the time(lost) , it result in an over-acting facial animation with too much little moves (eyes blink, brows, mouth) and not enought emotion and feeling...
this was often my impressions...you're free to take what you wish on it.
thanks
Al
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Hi,
Thanks for your help David,
If you want to do facial/lipsynch action , great !
only one thing , keep in mind to not animate with the "head" bone and other "body" bone, so your facial actions will blend/add fine to mine in choreo.
About the voices and audio files I'm working with...well, it comes from SVN, and I'm not aware of any update about this.
So if they're not the final voices...well ? of course, we don't want to do useless work so...
...Anyway, since the animation layout and timing are still a work in progress ...it may change so doing refined lipsynch action would be effectively a bit early... we should wait for the final voice audio track .
But David, If you want to do some facial action,(facial expression and eyes blink etc. ) I think you still can go ahead , we will just add a lipsynch action layer over in a further step.
About changes you have mentioned, they're cool but maybe it would be better to get a longer sequence done before doing this kind of suggestive changes...
Generally my impression is that we should keep action as simple as we can...when a character is doing something , the focus is localized at one point in the screen ...no need to add too much secondary movement elsewhere, it would distract the eye from the focus point...it disturb to see two focus points at the same time.
I mean being careful to not over-acting the scene
...Same for the lipsynch , no need for very well spelled mouth wording...the main point remain on keying facial pose...lips can just babbling and it will be just great ! Of course you're already aware of that , I just want to refresh those notion here...
Probably that's why my work look kind of incomplete ...and effectively it is. We'll see all this much better later
MHO
Hey thanks again!
...sorry if I'm not following the forum every day
Al
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Ok thanks for the feedback Ken.
Which format is best for the forum ? WMP ? and Which compressor ?
I would use those setting cause you're right about the time to download and to upload too
ok bye
Al
Your movies take ages to download Alain! For some reason. I notice quicktime downloads slower than other stuff. The animation is good in both. Just needs some refining. A note to anyone doing the lipsynch.....this isn't the final dialogue. -
02_09_05
the suite of 04
Note:
at this time, I'm not doing any lipsynch or facial animation on 02_09.
If someone want to work on this , those facial anim will be add on my choreo...
don't use the head bone or any other body bones and control system, use only the facial rig and stuff
so when the facial action will be add over in choreo , everything will "add" or "blend" fine
PS: SVN is now updated with the files
Thanks
Al
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Hi
it's better late than never
Here, some work on 02_09_04
Still need some tweaks
Thanks
Al
ref. for previous 02_09_02 ...03
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Here some comments about the character's texture and style.
I think Nancy's style is as valid as any other would be.
A good thing about it is that it would surprise people by its imaginative design and original color, those are good points as mentioned upper this threads.
On the other side,two points :
1- I would like to see more refinement in the texture work itself.
the map are blured... most of them seem to be just sticked over with not much map editing to fit the pieces.
I presume it's just preliminary study works from Nancy and that resolution and details will be improved later...
2- some color combination look a bit odd to me...like hard green and rubis red...
I mean I would use some restriction in color combination...nothing to overide Nancy's color style ,
just more unification of the color theme for every character .
too much (3-4) differents pur color (primary and secondary) in the same character seem a lot for my eyes...maybe the artistic rules about color would be broken and re-ordered here but I got some doubts
... what wrong about color tone ?
As usual, this is my personnal opinion about this ... and I'm talking mainly about detail here...
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some well known fact about color that come to my mind:
-Use red with parcimony
-Use complementary color ( blue with orange , red with green , yellow with purple)
-Add a bit of a main color in the others
Nice work again Nancy
Al
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Nice!nice! nice !
a good lightning for an early morning at the shop .
I would also see strong lightning coming from the tinsmith fire.
...with spotlight on specific area...showing distance...most of the
place remaining in mid-darkness.
Al
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hehehe ! it's cool to see this getting together !
Al
arm and forearm proportion
in TWO Characters
Posted
This seem an elegant solution!
And I will certainly use it with Woot.
two thumbs up !
You rock !
Al