Simon Edmondson

I was preparing the whole project for rendering and tried out the png and EXR formats as suggested above. This is the result as a straight Jpg But, when I go to png, I get this And EXR gives me this. Sorry I can't upload that. I only have Photoshop CS2 and, when opening the png and EXR frames the alpha is there but I can't access it or the other layers. The EXR is notably different to all the other file types in the result it gives. It is a lot lighter in appearance and looks like its waiting to be adjusted but... how ? You may gather, accurately, that I am not very conversant with PNG and EXR formats. Any help gratefully received. Thank you very much. regards simon I should add; the only change from render to render was in the file formats used. No other settings were changed.

i'd be interested in a UK group although i think we are possibly a bit too georaphically diverse for that ? regards simon

I'm no lighting man but, perhaps a version of a gobo light ? I think thats what they are called (?) the ones that project dots of light? Perhaps it even better that we don't know ? Best get some kip ( sleep ) regards simon

For me two of the least successful films of the past 12 years were Titanic and Pearl Harbour. Both tremendous effects but the 'human interest' story threads ruined both films. "Tora, Tora, Tora" and"from here to eternity" ( ? the one with Burt Lancaster rolling in the waves ? ) did that so much better, without the effects. I have a tremendous story, ( nothing to do with me its a real event) I've been trying to work out how to tell for some years as I research the period. It has all three C's and lots of drama, beginning, middle and end. Just not an author able to do it justice ! Enjoy your weekend. regards simon

Some things don't change I suppose ! I got a set of three DVD's of films of that era a few months back, only found time to watch one so far and that was "Steamboat Will" with Buster Keaton in the lead role. It shows its age but some of the 'effects' are jawdropping and make you wonder how they did it? These days it would all be CG but this was about 20 years before the first computer was even built. There is the one every knows, were the end of the building falls on him but he is standing in just the right place to make it through the open window. The first time I saw that, I was about 10 and just accepted it and got on with watching the next bit. Now I can barely believe they did it and got away with it ! Some of the other stunts are equally as impressive, and his face is the same whatever happens... Thank you very much for the tip, it sounds like something I would like to see. I'm still recovering from last years hiccups but hoping to go to Scandinavia this time next year to try and see the Northern Lights. A trip to London would depend on timing and the rate of recuperation. The trip to see the lights has been an ambition since the last, unsuccessful, attempt in 99. Which had the plus of being the most enjoyable holiday I've ever had but I digress ... regards simon

Rodney Thank you for your reply. What I was after was the glow effect of the jpg image. The png loses some of that and gains that dark rim to the light cone. we discussed the merits of rendering to different image formats earlier. I think perhaps I should render a sequence to png then save as afterwards. ( its a good excuse to get out the house and watch people walking down the sea front while its rendering away ! ). Off for an ice cream... regards simon

I rendered out a full version but the lighting looked wrong. So I went back and tried to adjust it to get the 'correct' settings. When rendered to jpg format I get this result When rendered to png format, this is the result. Tried it with .tga and open EXR but the results were very similar to the png. Although EXR looked a lot brighter when they were opened in photoshop. The QT file was closer to the jpg in result. Which was good for the sun ray lamp and the shadows on the wall but not under the beach lounger or the figure. Is it because the other formats has an alpha channel and jpg does not ? regards simon

Take four. ( I hope ) the jitter has gone. If so, it was almost certainly due to me overkeying the back movements. There were keys at four points in each step and the movements at each point were too large. Perhaps gone too far the other way this time , not sure ? Getting there very slowly. Thank you all for your patience and help. regards simon Scene_Five_D_Wire.mov

It had not occurred to me until just now but, earlier someone mentioned Charlie Chaplin. I'm not a great fan of Chaplin although I do admire his craft but, the films of that period are great examples of visual story telling, simply because that was the only way they could do it. They did use Inter titles but the absence of sound meant that the story had to be told in other ways. The acting devices they used look rather hammy today and I'm beginning to feel that way about some of the acting in recent animation films but, thats for another thread. A friend made a study of the use of Inter titles ( Interstitials ? ) for her dissertation and one of the interesting things about it, was that films could be shown all around the world with just a change of titles into the different countries national language. The visuals did the work. There was an equivalent version of that in the mid 90's when several major Hollywood films deliberately mixed down the dialogue so the films could be shown in different markets without costly change. Jurrasic Park II was a particularly painful example of that as I recall, ( I thought the cinema sound system had broken down and complained on the way out! ). In the UK at the moment there is a great popularity for Scandinavian TV drama. Despite it using subtitles it attracts very large audiences and out rates much more expensive and touted US imports such as " Boardwalk Empires". It would be difficult to pin down exactly why it is so popular with so many people but I suspect it is because, visually, narratively and in terms of the acting performances, it is very unlike the norms of UK and US TV. Scenes last more than 3 mins and often contain no edit within that time frame, they assume the audience is paying attention and allow the actors to flex their muscles. I'm hooked ( you might be able to tell ! ). simon

Rodney This is more of a trivial contribution I'm afraid but, There was a show on BBC R4 a few months back about Calvin and Hobbes and Bill Watterson. There was a wonderful anecdote about Steven Speilberg's assistant calling him with the possibility of making a movie. BW refused to take the call. In the Anniversary book he covers some of the battles he had with the syndication people, its a while since I read it but most of them were about merchandising and possible film or TV spin offs as I recall. Unless he's changed his mind, I'd be surprised if there was a film. On a fan note, his drawing are terrific. If you've not read the 10th Anniversary book I'd recommend it. Less trivial, more relevant a little later. regards simon

Rodney I was thinking about this over coffee this morning. The 'show don't tell' mantra was one we were told about on the course I mentioned before. They made the point that Novels are about the writing, everything gets done through the words, Theatre is about the dialogue and the performances, Film is primarily a visual medium and its that and the performances that do most of the work. We were told to avoid exposition as much as possible and I hear that advice in my head every time I see TV drama, especially crime based drama. This may not be the moment but, it is arguable that exposition is so prevalent in TV because of need to fit every scene inside 3mins or less and move the story arc along. Going back to an earlier point, the three C's model of clarity, character and conflict would fit perfectly with Bill Watterson's "Calvin and Hobbs" and a lot of it is done with visuals as much as text. For me it has some of the best writing I've read and he does it all in such a condensed form. The transition of Hobbs from Toy to Tiger and Back in the same scene is very well done and, instantly understood by the audience. regards simon Ps The tenth anniversary edition is very good, not just on the evolution of the characters, stories and drawings but on the conflicts with the corporate syndicate too. The man has a very high level of personal integrity.

I would have liked to see it but sadly, the recent flash upgrade won't work for me so it won't allow me to see it. simon

Rodney The POV idea would be very useful for the next one planned but, as you suggest, I'll not try it with this one. I followed Roberts pose to pose tutorials and tried to set up a walk cycle to try that. I won't use a cycle in the end but it was good to do to find out where the errors may have been before. There was a glitch setting up the action as, for some reason, it wouldn't allow me to play the cycle through using the buttons at the bottom of the view but, when I switched to the chor that option was available. I think the reason the figure jittered before may have been because I had over keyed the movements in the back and shoulders and the program was having to cope with that. You live ( and hope to ) learn. Scene_Five_Wire_C.mov I will have another go at doing the walk freeform ( as it were ) tomorrow. Its getting to be like drafting a script, albeit more rewarding. regards simon

(Mode Note: Quote Repaired) Gerry If you find a method that works for you, thats what you want. Your own way will develop as you do more of it. In my naivety, when I started out I thought it would just be the first draft. HA !!!. The one that got made by others, went through about 10 versions and ended up silent with no dialogue. I'd thought it would be an animation and it ended up live action. The original outline was about three sentences. I'm still learning how to do it and probably will be up until I finally pop my clogs. I've mentioned Robert Rodriquez elsewhere, when he was doing the medical experiments, he sat there writing out each scene on index cards until he had a structure he liked, then wrote it up from there. I tried that but didn't get very far. When I start I usually have a beginning and an end but not sure about the bit inbetween and thats where all the exasperation goes on with a lot of revisions along the way. I wishj you well with it. regards simon

Send me that PRj and I will look at it. Robert Thank you once again for your kind offer. I don't mean to be rude but, pardon me if I don't send it at this stage. Perhaps later if I don't crack it myself. I'll try constraining the cameras to a null and move that with the character. Steep learning curve so far but, worth it in the end. Hope so anyway. Mark No need to apologise at all. It was a good idea just needs adjustment. Thank you. regards simon

Updated. Here is the movement from the side camera. Side_Wire.mov Here is the same movement from the perspective camera. Scene_Wire.mov Simon

Robert Thank you for the feedback. I will look at it again this afternoon, I'm a little reluctant to take up more of your time than I have already but thank you very much for the offer. The jitter is not apparent in the orthogonal views when I play it through, though I will check again, perhaps because those cameras are constrained to the Body Null ? That causes trouble when using the orthogonal's and the null is rotated. The whole thing tips over too in a way that is difficult to control. regards simon Ps On a trivial note: The Orthogonal's sounds like on of the challenges in "Jason and the Argonauts" !

(Mod Note: fixed quote container) I love Gerry's explanation of the Hemingway story. I think what it shares with the Brautigan, is just what Fuchur says. Clarity, character and conflict. You already have the story and all the essentials are there. I did some screen writing development courses a few years back and they kept telling us not to overwrite. The thing we mustn't do ( unless directing ) was to write in shot details, like "wide view, pulling into ...". Even scene details were frowned upon to some extent, "Interior, domestic living room, daylight" was OK but detailing what that space contained, unless directly relevant to the action of that scene, was not. That was the work of the production designer and the Director. In a novel the writer is both the storyteller and the director screen writing, whether for animation or live action is something different again. With the three C's model it allows for subtle variations that would come down to the writer or director in the way the different aspects are brought forward at each moment. An example of that might be the work of my favourite Director, Robert Altman who choses to emphasise different aspects in successive scenes. When it goes well the total is greater than the sum of its parts. When badly the audience or consumer, feels confused and perhaps let down? For me the McKee approach seems a bit too mechanistic but, if it helps to get your work completed thats grand. I'm not a fan of the sometimes schmaltzy production values of country music but, the song "Good year for the Roses" has all the, Clarity, Character and Conflict you need, and it does it in less than three mins. Hank williams song "Move it on Over" would be another good example. My interest in animation was sparked when I heard a song called " The Band played Watzing Matilda", sung accapela by June Tabor. It was all about the Gallipoli landings in WWI and the aftermath in Australia. I wanted to make a film with that power and strength. In the end a friend suggested it was better left to the song and I reluctantly agreed. regards simon

Gerry Thank you. I've revised the turn this morning and hope its improved, less robotic. I was using the turn handles on the bones before and went back and tried that again at first but, this version was corrected using the rotate values in the properties section. Scene_Five_Wire.mov I was reading somewhere the other day that one of the biggest mistakes beginners make, is to make their movements too big, and suspect I may be guilty of just that. regards simon

Here is a wireframe of scene Five. Apologies for the delay, The dentist and other things have intervened. Any feedback welcome. regards simon Ps the feet do lift and tilt, honest !,, It doesn't show so well in the wireframe. I've just spotted that the turn stop is too sudden before it sits down ( the drink would slosh out ! ) I will correct that and any other points raised, tomorrow. Scene_Five_Wire.mov

This sounds like Machstudio & Source Moviemaker - or are there any differences? I don't know.It was not an are I wanted to pursue myself so did not remember all the details. I will try to find out and get to you. simon

Robert Thank you as ever for the videos. I will watch them later this afternoon. regards simon

Gerry Thank you for the input. I've been working on the revised walk ( again ) and will try to post it later. I live in a fairly rural area and don't get a lot of footfall going past my window, so was quite focused at the seafront. The problem was it carried over as I was going around the supermarket later and forgot what I'd gone in for ! coming out with lots of other secondary stuff. I was reminded of two things, the Dancer and choreographer Merce Cunnigham habitually watched people walking to note the variety thereof and, a very shortsighted person I once knew ( she couldn't see any detail beyond about 6 feet ) told me she recognised her friends by their walk as she and they went along the street. I hope to get to that point with the characters but it might t take a while. Just remembered, one of my fave characters, the Pink Panther, used to hop every few steps... regards simon

Robert I was just reworking the whole walk when I saw your message. I'm dLing the Tuts now. I spent a large part of Saturday afternoon at the seafront watching people walk by I was surprised by how much some people swing their arms, even when walking fairly slowly. A rather portly bloke went by, walking quite briskly for his size and his forearms were almost horizontal, with his elbows beyond the navel. The main thing that surprised me was that people seem to swing the arms around the hips, increasing their personal space, while swinging backwards and forwards. I'll try again next weekend too... regards Simon Ps Has the stuff arrived ?

Here is a wireframe of the walk. I think its going to be completely redone as the hand/arm moves are too large for what I wanted . Scene_Five.mov This is the setup in the chor Its still a work in progress I guess. regards simon