Trailer Proposals

[Rodney]

00:00:00:00 Intro

00:00:00:00 Image of Latimer at his window (Lightning Flash with Thunder) (consider rain)

00:00:00:00 Image of Latimer's Parents at Graveside (Lightning Flash with Thunder) (consider rain)

00:00:00:00 Trees blowing / Leaves Falling (Dark Silhouette of Trees and Gravestones in lonely Graveyard)

00:00:00:00 Camera begins to zoom in on something large perched atop a Gravestone

00:00:00:00 Camera begins to move around the shape revealing it was the back of a character (Gravedigger). The Background subtly changes from that of the real world Graveyard to that of the land of the dead while circling Gravedigger. This acts as a bridging device between the two worlds and Gravedigger is the one that is taking us from here to there.

00:00:00:00 Thunder and Lighting (no rain) as Gravedigger is fully revealed (Is he smiling? Or just content?)

00:00:00:00 Gravedigger steps down from off of the Gravestone as his dialogue begins: (he says... something relevant)

00:00:00:00 Gravedigger walking and musing about events we don't understand or yet comprehend (not directly related to story but hinting at it in subtle way) "

00:00:00:00 Gravedigger taps on a Gravestone and walks on

00:00:00:00 Gravedigger taps again

00:00:00:00 Gravedigger taps again and smiles / starts digging "Most folks come here an' don't even know they're dead yet."

00:00:00:00 Cut to Latimer awakening from the grave with an audible gasp / Wide Eyed and Disoriented (perhaps with a slightly comical and amused look on his face to lighten the mood just a bit) "But they figger it out sooner or later."

00:00:00:00 Fade to Black with Title appearing "Woke Up Dead"

00:00:00:00 Fade Out with laughter of Gravedigger

 

I timed this out to one minute but decided to erase all the timing because the shorter the better and it might not take one minute.

 

Thought: It might be raining in the real world but no hint of rain in the land of the dead. This would help differentiate between the two visually/environmentally/sensually. Perhaps in the land of the dead it thunders and lightnings but never rains.

[Ilidrake]

Very nice. Check your email. I sent what I came up with to you. Your idea is good and works well. Perhaps the dialogue from my trailer will fit into this one?

[Ilidrake]

Okay I've converted the above to script format for you to go over quickly. I'm still considering what his actual dialogue will be. But this breaks it dwn pretty good so far.

 

SCENE 1: EXT - WINDOW

Image of Latimer at his window (Lightning Flash with Thunder) (consider rain)

SCENE 2: EXT - GRAVEYARD

Image of Latimer's Parents at Graveside (Lightning Flash with Thunder) (consider rain)

SCENE 3: EXT - GRAVEYARD

Trees blowing, leaves falling. Dark silhouette of trees and gravestones in lonely graveyard.

CAMERA BEGINS TO ZOOM IN ON SOMETHING LARGE PERCHED ATOP A GRAVESTONE. CAMERA BEGINS TO MOVE AROUND THE SHAPE REVEALING IT WAS THE BACK OF A CHARACTER (GRAVEDIGGER). THE BACKGROUND SUBTLY CHANGES FROM THAT OF THE REAL WORLD GRAVEYARD TO THAT OF THE LAND OF THE DEAD WHILE CIRCLING GRAVEDIGGER. THIS ACTS AS A BRIDGING DEVICE BETWEEN THE TWO WORLDS AND GRAVEDIGGER IS THE ONE THAT IS TAKING US FROM HERE TO THERE.

SCENE 4: EXT - LAND OF THE DEAD GRAVESITE

Thunder and Lighting (no rain) as Gravedigger is fully revealed (Is he smiling? Or just content?) Gravedigger steps down from off of the Gravestone as his dialogue begins.

GRAVEDIGGER

Hello there. You wouldn’t happen to be Latimer would you? Didn’t think so. I wish that boy would hurry up and get here.

Gravedigger walking and musing about events we don't understand or yet comprehend (not directly related to story but hinting at it in subtle way) "

 

Gravedigger taps on a Gravestone and walks on. Gravedigger taps again. Gravedigger taps again and smiles and starts digging.

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT’D)

Most folks come here an' don't even know they're dead yet.

CUT TO LATIMER AWAKENING FROM THE GRAVE WITH AN AUDIBLE GASP / WIDE EYED AND DISORIENTED (PERHAPS WITH A SLIGHTLY COMICAL AND AMUSED LOOK ON HIS FACE TO LIGHTEN THE MOOD JUST A BIT)

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT’D)

"But they figger it out sooner or later."

 

FADE TO BLACK WITH TITLE APPEARING "WOKE UP DEAD"

 

FADE OUT WITH LAUGHTER OF GRAVEDIGGER

[Rodney]

Added: Thanks for the conversion!

 

Give me some time to consider your email. At first glance I'd say it is sufficiently different that I wouldn't mix much between this one and that. Here's my rationale.

 

In this proposal (#0) the goal is to reduce dialogue to the fullest extent possible (the emphasis would be on the visuals and most lipsync either would occur off screen or be hidden in shadows.

 

Is Gravedigger's actual name Gravedigger? I thought that was just something we called him because nobody really knows his name. In light of this, going with "Hello my name is Gravedigger" seems to be unnecessary and not only that I think it's better to keep up the mystery of this character. If he ever says his name (which I'm not sure he should) it should be to Latimer (in the movie). If you are specifically targeting kids fo r the film then yes, he should probably state that his name is Gravedigger.

 

I do like that your proposal has Gravedigger dealing with a 'throw away' character. If nothing else, he can do things to that character that he can't do to Latimer. My thought with using Latimer in the trailer is that as this film is all about Latimer I'd be good to actually see Latimer in the trailer. That he appears at the climax of the trailer suggests that he's pretty important and because he's seen for such a short time the viewer may want to know more about him and what is going to happen to him. This is the trailer asking the question on behalf of the audience, "Who are these characters?" But importantly... not supplying those answers. The film will do that.

 

The area that I really want to consider more is where you have Gravedigger discuss plot elements (the exchange betweenDeath and Cleopatra) My first instinct is to suggest that you don't want to reveal such an important plot element of the movie in the trailer itself. Generically I think it would be appropriate to have Gravedigger comment on how things are getting bad but I'm not sure he should attribute that to Cleopatra.

 

What I think would work pretty well would be your proposal as a narrative (Gravedigger talking) over the top of scenes pulled out of the movie. Example:

 

SCENE 1 - GRAVEYARD

Gravedigger digging a grave out tossing dirt to the side.

He stabs the shovel into the ground, pulls a handkerchief out and starts wiping his forehead.

Sees the audience.

 

GRAVEDIGGER

Hello, Name is Gravedigger*.

 

Begins digging again.

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

As you see I'm about to welcome another soul to the Land of the Dead.

 

Panaramic view of Land of Dead

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

Things haven't been the same around here since Cleopatra.

It's not my place to judge but handing her the keys of the kingdom seems a bit reckless.

 

Images of Cleopatra enraged (subjects cowering)

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

But that will all be changing when Latimer gets here. At least I hope it does.

 

The casket in the grave suddenly pops open and a skeleton sits up and looks around.

 

Gravedigger pops him in the head with the shovel and slams it shut.

 

GRAVEDIGGER

You're not Latimer.

 

Gravedigger smiles to the camera and then shrugs.

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

Tourists! (laughing).

I'd love to stay and chat but my hands are full here.

 

(Odd thought: This could hint that he is digging up graves looking for Latimer but I suppose he could just look at the gravestones for that.)

 

Gravedigger goes back to digging then stops and smiles at the camera.

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

See you soon!

 

FADE TO BLACK.

 

Apologies for the liberties I've taken and I hope it's okay to post this here. I shortened the dialogue... remember you're gonna hafta animate all of that!

 

For what it's worth, your proposal is funnier. You should post that here in the forum.

 

As I see it we are in full on brainstorming mode here. Throw stuff at the wall until something sticks.

 

 

*Excised after feedback from Lloyd.

[Ilidrake]

That's really good. I don't mind you playing with this at all, that's why I asked for your help. Very nice to see a different approach. I think your right about the name, we should keep that hush hush in the trailer. Get people to wondering who this guy is and what he's talking about. Well, I'll stew on this for the night and start working on Gravedigger in the morning.

[Rodney]

I've made a few minor changes above and crossed 'Name is Gravedigger' out in lieu of your feedback.

 

The downside of my adaption of your proposal (above) is that I've inserted some expensive shots: specifically the Panoramic View of Land of Dead and Cleopatra's Tantrum with Cowering Servants. That might still be doable given six months to work with and it'd help produce assets for the film itself. Also, the panoramic view could mostly be a 2D painted backdrop in the far background.

 

Sleep well Lloyd.

[Ilidrake]

Okay here's a rough draft of the trailer. And I mean ROUGH lol. I did this after I finished Gravedigger modeling. Had to give my brain a rest. Let me know what you think? I the timing good? Is the dialogue working? Is the music good? Be brutal!!!!

output2.mov

[Rodney]

Rough is good.

You are off to a good start.

 

You'd be able to take what you've got here and run with it as a general purpose trailer.

But if it's a general purpose trailer you're going to want to follow it up with additional trailers.

 

A few things I would definitely add:

A few longer pauses at choice points in the dialogue will give Gravedigger a chance to perform some action... or move from here to there... wipe his nose... something in tandem with the dialogue to engage the audience... to entertain... to captivate.

 

I'd say you should emphasis Gravedigger's voice more at key words or phrases (you've got this going on pretty good but I think there needs to be some tension in his voice.. or a growing sense of urgency... a sense that what he is describing is real. That feeling is building up from the moment we are introduced to Gravedigger and it's only interrupted by the inopportune appearance of the skeleton. I think , "Tourists." could use considerably more emphasis. I'd say he could even say it sarcastically (as I believe he does with Latimer in the movie?)... his non-verbals are telling us something, perhaps 'how dare you interrupt me right in the middle of my speech you stupid tourist. This (or whatever is on his mind) we primarily see only in the form of his words, "Tourists." and his actions are then dictated by the words he says. I assume here that he then laughs at his own action (that of stuffing the skeleton back into it's coffin... 'serves him right for interrupting me') and not that of the appearance of a skeleton that is simply not Latimer. If anything I think he might be rather disappointed that it wasn't Latimer. (But I didn't get the sense that he was looking for him in the script. Latimer just seemed to be another soul passing to the Land of the Dead there. Who is Latimer that Gravedigger should know him?)

 

My primary thought at this point would be to look at each cut in this trailer sequence and determine the motivating factor behind that cut. Why does the camera cut away from the first shot... Gravedigger does something and/or says something important there. Why does the camera cut to the panorama... Gravedigger is trying to show us something important there. Why is he telling us of the troubles with Cleopatra... perhaps he's leading up to why the Land of the Dead needs a Latimer. He's interrupted just as he's about to tell us about Latimer... " We are robbed of some very important information here. Gravedigger's response, "I know Latimer and you are (definitely) not Latimer."

 

The awkwardness of this is that in watching this trailer we still haven't a clue as to what is really going on in this film (although we think we might have seen a hint of it in the panorama and with that mad lady that must be Cleopatra). If we blinked we probably missed Gravedigger saying the name "Latimer".

 

I'd suggest livelier music (epic score stuff) during the two inserted scenes (for panorama and Cleopatra), Since they are only a few seconds it'll only need to be a few beats. And of course Foley throughout (I really missed that sound of Gravedigger bonking the skeleton... how could you leave that out!).

 

Whew... this is difficult to dissect so go easy on me here!

You know the story but we in the audience are on the outside looking in still trying to figure everything out. And we've only had a few seconds to do that.

 

If continuing 'as is' perhaps a quick series of still images (ala Marvel comics intro to their movies) at the beginning and/or the end, might give the audience a glimpse of other interesting characters and situations in the movie. Of course the problem there is that those would have to be created and I'd guess that you'd need at least 12 shots at a minimum.

 

To answer your specific questions:

 

Is the timing good? I few more pauses at critical points (one primarily)

 

Is the dialogue working? I'd like to see more emphasis on some words and accents (i.e. what does Gravedigger really think about Cleopatra. This should come across in his voice even if in only a subtle way) Conversely, how does he feel about Latimer? He seems to know who Latimer is I don't any of that is conveyed when he says the name "Latimer'.

 

Is the music good? A bit hard to hear and didn't seem quite appropriate as the trailer continued. (i.e. Cleopatra's tantrum)

But... as an intro and general background music. It works for me!

 

 

That's my first look at it. It's a lot easier to critique than to create, so kudos to you.

You've got a really solid breakdown for a first rough draft.

Keep that pace up and you'll soon have a movie!

[Ilidrake]

Thanks Rodney. I've been watching it over and over. The acting is definitly bad. That's me trying to do a scottish. I think perhaps I will re-record the dialogue and see if I can mix it up a bit more to give more insight into what the movie is about. It's 45 seconds long so I can definitly add to it without very many problems. If you yourself would like to break it down and add or take away from it please do.

[Ilidrake]

I've been playing around with this using diffrent soundtracks and I can't find anything I like. Care to try?

[Rodney]

Care to try?

 

I don't think I had better mess with music although it'd be a fun exercise.

 

I'd say that for music you are in similar territory as those color tests... each character has a musical theme of their own. For this purpose, the environment is a character also.

 

'Gravediggers Theme' would be what... a slow, wistful chant of a tune?

I almost get the feeling he'd just say, "This sure isn't your average Disney musical."

 

'Cleopatra' would be more pomp and circumstance (perhaps with crashing cymbals when she goes into a rant)

 

'Latimer's Song' wistful and wandering.

 

'Nora's Theme' confident and reliable.

 

Franky's Song like a divine comedy. (Although the origin story lead in would be one of drama and tragedy)

 

Edgar's lively and attentive (if in any way associated with poetry) and otherwise somber

 

Death's Song: Fearful and Loud (but elements are stripped from it to play out the earliest stanzas as calm and content)

 

If you yourself would like to break it down and add or take away from it please do.

I'll see if I can dream up any solutions. Must sleep for now...

[Ilidrake]

After I got home from the dentist today I decided to do some research and just watch trailers. Mainly trailers around animated movies. And the one thing that caught my eye about most of them is the amount of plot they give away. They are really good, but they don't give me that, ohhhhhh I gotta see that and find out what it's about, feeling. Maybe it's just me. I had that feeling watching the halo 4 trailer lol...but none from movies.

I want people to watch my first trailer and ask themselves, what is that about? what is he talking about? I wonder are there more trailers? When does it come out so I can find out what is going on? Reveal just enough to hook people but not give the entire movie away.

[Rodney]

After I got home from the dentist today I decided to do some research and just watch trailers. Mainly trailers around animated movies. And the one thing that caught my eye about most of them is the amount of plot they give away. They are really good, but they don't give me that, ohhhhhh I gotta see that and find out what it's about, feeling. Maybe it's just me. I had that feeling watching the halo 4 trailer lol...but none from movies.

I want people to watch my first trailer and ask themselves, what is that about? what is he talking about? I wonder are there more trailers? When does it come out so I can find out what is going on? Reveal just enough to hook people but not give the entire movie away.

 

Yes, but aren''t most trailers created when significant portions of the story are already in the can?

 

There is a reason the word 'trailer' is used for these 'previews'... they follow.. or trail... after the making of the movies themselves and are presented as previews to let the audience see at a glance what the movie is all about.

 

It's related to that old 'show me don't tell me' thing that entices the viewer by engaging with us through our visual and auditory channels.

 

Added: Without specifically looking at any trailers I would say that most follow this general outline:

 

- Introduce Character(s)

- Introduce Conflict

- Show Characters in emotional state or peril

 

This invites the audience to quesiton and to ponder how the characters will react and interact.

[Ilidrake]

Okay so not getting too far off of the original Gravedigger premise let's see what else we can come up with. Perhaps we can integrate other parts of the movie into our little bit. I suppose by picking key parts of the movie and animating those small sections. Question is though how would we "key" these sections on top of what we already have? I can see doing an entirely diffrent trailer but I really like the one we have now.

 

On another note they also have teaser trailers which is what we in essence are making here.

[Rodney]

Not sure where we go from here.

In the interim here is a rough of two proposals thus far merged together.

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SCENE 1: EXT - WINDOW

Image of Latimer at his window (RAINING) (Intro Latimer: He'll be the last image we see besides the title as well)

 

Color: Saturated blues and greys

 

CUT TO SCENE 2: EXT - GRAVEYARD

Image of Latimer's Parents at Graveside (RAINING) (Shot suggests: Someone has died here)

 

Color: High Contrast (Dark Shadows against patches of light with some color, primarily deep browns, reds, blues and greys)

 

(LIGHTNING FLASH WITH THUNDER) (Visual and Audio Purpose: increase tension)

 

SCENE 3: EXT - GRAVEYARD (TRANSFORMS INTO EXT LAND OF DEAD GRAVEYARD)

Trees blowing, leaves falling. Dark silhouette of trees and gravestones in lonely graveyard.

CAMERA BEGINS TO ZOOM IN ON SOMETHING LARGE AMONG THE GRAVESTONES. CAMERA BEGINS TO MOVE AROUND THE SHAPE REVEALING IT WAS THE BACK GRAVEDIGGER. THE BACKGROUND SUBTLY CHANGES WHILE CIRCLING GRAVEDIGGER FROM THAT OF THE REAL WORLD GRAVEYARD TO THAT OF THE LAND OF THE DEAD AS THE BACKGROUND ALTERS ITS STYLE AND COLOR (THIS ACTS AS A BRIDGING DEVICE BETWEEN THE TWO WORLDS. (NO RAIN) (FOLEY SOUND OF SHOVEL AGAINST CONCRETE TONK! TONK! BUT WE DON"T SEE THE ACTIVITY)

 

Color: Blended colors but mostly Grayscale. Color only appears at critical areas (i.e. Moving dirt, Gravediggers eyes or a glove/hand on a spade)

 

GRAVEDIGGER steps forward and digs at a grave, tossing dirt aside.

He stabs the shovel into the ground again and stops, pulling a handkerchief out and wiping his forehead.

 

Color: Moving dirt (redish brown) Handkerchief (Yellow with printed patterns)

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

As you see I'm here to welcome another soul to the Land of the Dead.

 

QUICK FADE IN WITH PANARAMIC VIEW OF THE LAND OF THE DEAD

GRAVEDIGGER (OS Voice Over): All souls come here eventually.

 

Color: Blurry image as camera pans through a city some color but mostly from windows. (empty streets?)

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

Things haven't been the same around here since Cleopatra.

 

QUICK FADE IN OF SEQUENCE WITH CLEOPATRA ENRAGED (SUBJECTS COWERING)

It's not my place to judge but handing her the keys of the kingdom seems a bit reckless.

 

Colors: Bright Colors - the opposite of the Graveyard (Clashes of White, Yellow, Orange and Red)

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

But that will all be changing when Latimer arrives.

I hope he gets here sooner than later.

 

Color: Black (voice over) This moment acts as an anticipation for what will happen next

 

The casket in the grave suddenly pops open and a SKELETON sits up and looks around.

 

Color: White Skeleton takes front and center against black backgound

 

Gravedigger pops SKELETON in the head with the shovel and slams it shut.

 

GRAVEDIGGER

You're not Latimer! Back you go!

 

Color: Land of the Dead Greys

 

Gravedigger smiles to the camera and then shrugs.

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT'D)

Tourists! (laughing).

Most folks come here don't even know they're dead yet.

 

Color: Dark colors against black as we can hardly make out the figure of Gravedigger. It seems like we are fading out to a close here.

 

We hear (but do not see) Gravedigger tap on gravestone three times (FOLEY: TONK TONK TONK!)

 

CUT TO LATIMER AWAKENING FROM THE GRAVE WITH AN AUDIBLE GASP / WIDE EYED AND DISORIENTED (PERHAPS WITH A SLIGHTLY COMICAL AND AMUSED LOOK ON HIS FACE TO LIGHTEN THE MOOD JUST A BIT)

 

Color: Latimer Blue and Fully colored face (His color stands in stark contrast to the grayscale color everywhere else.

 

GRAVEDIGGER Smiles a really big and satisfying smile.

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT’D)

"But they all figger it out sooner or later!"

 

GRAVEDIGGER REACHES A HAND TOWARD CAMERA AS IF WE AND LATIMER WERE OCCUPYING THE SAME SPACE.

 

GRAVEDIGGER (CONT’D)

"Don't they Latimer?"

 

CUT TO TITLE WITH WHITE TEXT ON BLACK BACKGROUND (TEXT: "WOKE UP DEAD"

FADE OUT WITH LAUGHTER OF GRAVEDIGGER

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Things this proposal attempts to accomplish:

 

Introduce Latimer quickly. (Someone of important to the audience)

Hint that somone is dead and someone is in mourning over whomever is dead. (i.e. Latimer's Parents)

Briefly intro the real world and then move quickly to the transition point of the Gravesite

Transition from there to here (or here to there if preferred)

Grant a brief glimpse and intro to The Land of the Dead (visually via panarama and audibly via Gravedigger)

Grant a brief glimpse at the villain

Hint at the importance of Latimer

Break up the seriousness of the story thus far with humor

Return to Latimer (the audience can now connect the dots and understand that this is the same guy they saw at the beginning of the trailer and know that he is the Latimer that Gravedigger has been awaiting)

Reveal Title of Film (Astute folks in the audience will get that the title relates to this kid named Latimer who has just 'woke up dead'.

 

Something like that anyway.

[Ilidrake]

Good stuff. Just for kicks, mainly me and you, the scene where Cleo is throwing a fit in the background of the shot we could have Death standing there. No one but me and you would know but I think an easter egg like that would be funny.

[Rodney]

for kicks, mainly me and you, the scene where Cleo is throwing a fit in the background of the shot we could have Death standing there. No one but me and you would know but I think an easter egg like that would be funny.

 

I like the way you think!

[Ilidrake]

Well first things first. I'll finish up Gravedigger today and then I'll begin Celopatra. I have Death i just need to change is clothing which won't be difficult at all. Then I'll go through and mock up the sets we'll need. I like the tombstones you were working on. I don't suppose you would mind refining them and making a few variations to use.

 

On a side note I had planned on re-recording the dialogue for Gravedigger but the dental wrk I had done really prevents that for now. If I do re-record it there will be no accent and it'll be pretty lousy right now.

[Rodney]

I don't suppose you would mind refining them and making a few variations to use.

 

It would be an honor.

I wont be able to get started right away because I'm still fixing things I broke up there in the top of the forum header... perhaps later today.

[Ilidrake]

No rush. Thanks Rodney.

[Ilidrake]

The biggest thing I'm having difficulty with is the transition from the living world and the land of the dead. I'm thinking perhaps we should zoom in on Latimer's tombstone and then having lighting flash and then perhaps zoom out.

 

..Orrrrr simply have the scene with his parents standing next to the grave with leaves blowing by. Lighting flashes and they are gone and Gravedigger is now sitting on top of the tombstone. He jumps down and begins tapping headstones an the scene continues.

 

What do you think?

[Rodney]

The biggest thing I'm having difficulty with is the transition from the living world and the land of the dead. I'm thinking perhaps we should zoom in on Latimer's tombstone and then having lighting flash and then perhaps zoom out.

 

..Orrrrr simply have the scene with his parents standing next to the grave with leaves blowing by. Lighting flashes and they are gone and Gravedigger is now sitting on top of the tombstone. He jumps down and begins tapping headstones an the scene continues.

 

What do you think?

 

If you are after ultra-simplicity, I think you can just cut from an image of Latimer's parents at the gravesite to one with without them at Latimers grave. I think it'd be good for the audience not to know how much time has transpired between the two.

 

The image I've had in my mind is clearer for the one with Latimer's parents in it.

For that I see the camera at a high angle up in the trees looking down on Latimer's parents who are laying a rose at the base of his tombstone. Similarly, I don't think it's important to show how long it's been since Latimer actually died. They could be at his funeral but it could be much much later as well. The important thing is to show how much his parents miss him. In the image I see Latimer's father is standing while his mother is kneeling at the grave. She's obviously devastated and he is trying to be strong. He kneels down as if to comfort her but we can't be sure if his knees didn't simply fail him also. I had the thought of him holding and dropping a red rose onto the ground as he embraces his wife. In my minds eye the scene is not clear... it's gloomy and dark. The only real color is the rose.

 

That would give us a sense of where we are about to leave 'the real world' and when next we open our eyes it's almost in the same sense as Latimer. In a way we've traveled with him from one side to the other although he is not aware yet of what has occurred.

 

I think its not only okay to leave some things out of those transitional scenes but it is better because then the audience can supply/attribute their own feelings and emotions. Almost everyone has experienced some form of loss in their life and so they can sympathize with these parents who have lost their son.

 

The awakening (for us) with Gravedigger at hand is a bit like we've made the transition ourselves in order to arrive in time to witness Latimer 'wake up'. I think this is a pivotal scene if for no other reason that it's the focus of the title itself. Latimer waking up dead is a significant moment. We can echo that a little in how the audience experiences that also. They'll experience it first by transitioning from the presence of Latimer's parents to an empty graveyard... where they meet with Gravedigger who is about to wake up Latimer. This helps us as members of the audience empathize with Latimer all the more because we've just made that transition ourselves.

 

Note that I'm not suggesting that Gravedigger actually see us and welcome us. We aren't really there... and yet we are. We are confused.... like Latimer... and some folks (primarily Death) will be along shortly to help us figure everything out.

 

Unlike the first scene which I envision with the camera looking down... the scene in the graveyard of the dead is from ground level... almost underground. In this way both scenes allow us to be Latimer... or at least share his perspective... hovering over his parents at graveside vigil... and coming up out of the ground. I envision the camera doing a low move into the graveyard moving slightly up hill as we are introduced to Gravedigger and watch him moving around. He's at work and we aren't yet awake yet ourselves, so he doesn't know we are there watching him. As it should be, things really get interesting with the awakening of Latimer.

[Ilidrake]

Well I'm not really looking for ultra-simple because the living side and the dead side graveyards would have to be identical for that to work. Unfortunatly they are nothing a like. That is why I think I may have to do a zoom. Perhaps Latimer's mother lays a red rose on the headstone and we zoom in on that. Then we animate it withering and begin zooming back out to show the graveyard of the dead with Gravedigger tapping on a nearby gravestone.

 

I've included a quick render of a few camera angle i'm experimenting with.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Ilidrake

[Rodney]

Unfortunatly they are nothing a like.

 

This is where I need to be able to get inside your mind. You say they are nothing alike but I have no frame of reference for that.

What is different about them? Have the gravestones changed into other shapes? Do they just look more weathered and broken than their real world counterparts?

Is there a stylistic difference such as the real world being rendered more realistically and the land of the dead more stylistically and abstractly?

 

When you say they are nothing alike... I have no reference point, and mostly because I don't know what the real world graveyard looks like to begin with.

Keep in mind that I'm suppose to be creating gravestones as such so I kind of need to know.

 

Note that I'm not opposed to creating stuff and then you saying, 'yes, that's it!' and 'no, it's not like that at all.' but perhaps you can find some images on google or post some doodles so we can start getting into sync with our understanding of these two worlds.

 

When I say 'ultra simple' I'm thinking that the real world graveyard is (primarily) cleaner and better lit than that of the land of the dead. From there other differences would flow. My thought here is that even in real world graveyards there are new gravestones and those that are very very old.

In some cemeteries I've been to there are the open areas that are well lit (and better liked as far as cemeteries go) and those harder to get to places often near trees and hills where shadows dominate and most prefer to never go.

 

Edit: Nice images! That gives me something to go on.

[Ilidrake]

Funny you should mention reference pics I've been looking around for a few days and came up with the following images to use for inspiration. These are the best images I could find for what I see in my mind. Consider Corpse Bride as being very inspirational for the look I would like to closely match but not copy.

 

The first 2 images are close to the Land of the Dead and the last would be close to my Living World that I'm seeing.

[Rodney]

Awesome. Thanks!

 

It occurs to me that one of your story elements might be that when Latimer (or anyone for that matter) dies they enter the grave in the real world but wake up in a very different location. What made me think of this in particular is your previous rendering with Latimer's Mom at the grave. This could almost be a private or family cemetery (I don't see any other gravestones) and this would stand in stark contrast to where Latimer wakes up dead which is in a graveyard filled to the brim with gravestones. I'm not sure if that factors in... but it was a compelling thought for a moment.

 

Be right back with some thoughts concerning your previous rendering...

[Rodney]

Okay, take this with a large dose of whatever...

 

Some thoughts that occur to me in looking at this rendering:

 

A - Consider some foreground trees/foliage to push a greater sense of depth.

 

B - Consider squaring off the tombstone with Latimer's Mom. If she is going to stand there she'll want to be face to face with the tombstone.

 

C - Latimer is actually buried here so there needs to be some indication of that. If it's been many years then perhaps just some taller grass etc. but if the funeral was today then a mound of freshly packed dirt. (Note that it's location to the tree is rough but... hey... this isn't reality... and it looks cool.

 

Note that I flipped the image for two reasons. The first is because I wanted to see how well your image lined up with what I saw originally in my imagination. Once I flipped the image it was pretty close! What I saw was mainly just from a higher angle looking down... this to increase the sense of loss and sadness. I like the warmth you've got in this ground level approach. The image of the Mother... very painterly and appropriate. I almost get goosebumps considering her recent loss and what she must be going through.

 

Oh... almost forgot the other reason I think flipping the image might be appropriate. Throughout most of this movie the characters will be moving from left to right. This may be a perfect opportunity to have characters directed the opposite way. In it's own way this opposing direction represents an obstacle to our hero which he must overcome.

 

I'm impressed with this rendering. It's got a lot of heart.

Looking very good Lloyd. Looking very good!

 

 

Edit: I'll add this thought too. The closeness of the camera is another element that is adding warmth to this shot. If you are trying to accent the sadness then you might want to pull back the camera to isolate the Mother more. Personally I like the warmth but I'm not sure what you are going for primarily in this shot. Perhaps the shot could start off as warm and then move back and upward and fade out as it gets lost in the darker branches above.... then cut to the Land of the Dead Gravesite.

 

 

 

Whoops. Forgot to upload the image.

[Ilidrake]

Well as I said this was an experimental shot. But there were a few things I was trying to accomplish with this shot. I wanted to project that Latimer's mother does in fact love him. She is overbearing and controlling but not because she is evil or mean. What she does comes out of love for her son. So I kept it low. I could have went closer but I wanted the shot to also give a sense of lonliness or isolation for this woman who lost someone so important to her.

Regarding your idea to pull out furthur and then move up that gave me a great idea! When the camera pulls up into tree branches these could actually be tree roots to trees in the Land of the Dead. So the camera pans upward and we think tree branches, and it gets darker and then it breaks through the surface and we see trees and more tombstones and Gravedigger marching along tapping headstones. I think that would be a really creative way to transition the two realms. Now most people would go dwn through the ground but I think this would be much diffrent approach and would give that sense that something just isn't right with the world.

 

Oh ya, I was thinking that this be a private cemetary right behind the family house. This would help depict how well off Latimer's family is.

[Rodney]

When the camera pulls up into tree branches these could actually be tree roots to trees in the Land of the Dead. So the camera pans upward and we think tree branches, and it gets darker and then it breaks through the surface and we see trees and more tombstones and Gravedigger marching along tapping headstones. I think that would be a really creative way to transition the two realms. Now most people would go dwn through the ground but I think this would be much diffrent approach and would give that sense that something just isn't right with the world.

 

Ooooo. I like it. If we can pull that off to the degree I think we can that'll be a great transition.

 

I was thinking that this be a private cemetery right behind the family house. This would help depict how well off Latimer's family is.

 

That seems to lend itself well to thoughts of Latimer's parents social status and hints at their family history. I like!

[Ilidrake]

Okay I'm doing a little research into tree roots to see how I can accomplish this transition without making it obvious until the camera comes through the surface. And if you hadn't had a chance take a look at the main forum take a look at Gravedigger textured. I think he looks pretty good.

[Ilidrake]

Rodney if you haven't had a chance, drop over to the Gravedigger post and snag a copy of the trailer script I finished. Overall I'm quite pleased with it's outcome.

[Rodney]

Thanks Lloyd, I'll check it out!

[Rodney]

I read through primarily for flow and it flows pretty smoothly!

 

This part I don't think you'll need because you've accomplished the transition via the camera move upward through the trees and into the roots of the graveyard:

 

 

BACKGROUND SUBTLY CHANGES WHILE CIRCLING GRAVEDIGGER FROM

THAT OF THE REAL WORLD GRAVEYARD TO THAT OF THE LAND OF THE

DEAD AS THE BACKGROUND ALTERS ITS STYLE AND COLOR (THIS ACTS

AS A BRIDGING DEVICE BETWEEN THE TWO WORLDS.

 

You could still do the camera move around Gravedigger that but the primary reason for changing the background has already been satisfied. Perhaps you can just use it to show interesting elements of the Land of the Dead's grave site or to give us an initial sense of the mass and weight of Gravedigger.

 

Your trailer script had me seeing some interesting colors contrasting with grays and I began to perceive how lights become even more important in every scene. This could really help because whatever lights are available then compliment the characters in the scene. Thinking forward to scenes from inside the city it'll be fun to play with subtle lighting coming from windows and of course The Raven itself. Lighting for this movie is really going to be a treat.

[Ilidrake]

Thanks Rodeny. Yes. Lighting is something I have been considering heavily and reading up on. I think for the trailer I may have Gravedigger carry a lantern to give a bit of orange/yellow glow to contrast the gray enviro.