Altering the setup

[pixelmech]

I'm using TSM to rig my robot. One thing I noticed is that TSM gives the arm and leg 4 bones instead of 2. I gather this is for more arm control/more organic look?

 

Anyway, I wanted my robot stiffer. Also, there were too many spine bones. So what I did was removed a few bones to change the rig a bit.

 

Is this going to ruin how the rig works? Is it a bad idea in general?

[luckbat]

One thing I noticed is that TSM gives the arm and leg 4 bones instead of 2. I gather this is for more arm control/more organic look?

As I understand it, the doubled bones allow the limbs and spine to do squash-&-stretch effects. But you don't have to use those effects, of course.

 

Is this going to ruin how the rig works? Is it a bad idea in general?

Yes and yes. From the manual:

 

The Setup Machine 2 relies on the naming convention and parenting structure of the bones it creates, so it is essential that you do not change the names or the parenting of the bones when you place them into the character. If you do, The Setup Machine 2 will not work properly.

 

Actually, you can remove some spine bones. I think TSM2 needs at least one.

 

Don't worry about all those extra rigging bones. Once the software does its thing, they'll be invisible.

 

http://www.anzovin.com/TSM2manual/

[pixelmech]

Thanks Mike. I'll have to try and put them back in or something. Rigging is going to be the death of me, man.

 

T

[luckbat]

It's awfully easy to make mistakes that way. It'd be better to generate a new base rig and alter it to match your previous attempt so nothing's overlooked.

[pixelmech]

yeah I was just thinking that. Did I mention rigging and death?

[luckbat]

All I can say is, rigging's like modeling. It gets easier the more you work with it.

 

Best of luck. I've been there.

[Morgan]

Actually, you can't remove any the spine bones, either -- Mike, you're probably thinking of TSM1. TSM2 really does rely on the bone structure that Builder puts in -- but bear in mind that you don't actually have to assign any points to the redundant bones. And as Mike said, once you run Rigger, they'll all disappear.

 

-Morgan

[UNGLAUBLICHUSA]

I think its a good idea still to keep the naming convention on the spine bones (maybe its still required). If you delete (say) spine 3, rename 'spine 4 as spine 3, 'spine 5' as spine 4, etc.. don't leave a numerical gap. Thants also good in general as a naming convention basic. good luck on you project.

[pixelmech]

I actually did that with one bone, didn't assign any CPs, so that will be what I do then.

 

So when you pose the character after running TSM - you shouldn't pose him using the bones? You should use the pose sliders?

[Sevenar]

No, you use the bones after you run the TSM Rigger. The Rigger takes away most of the skeletal bones and leaves you with foot, arm, head, and body control bones. They're very good at moving the model's limbs if you properly assigned the control points after running TSM Flipper but before running TSM Rigger. Usually an Auto Assign Bones gives you a quick test weighting, but there are two things you must fix before running Rigger on it. Auto-Assign will assign points on the feet to the black Foot Target bones instead of the Foot bones. No points should be assigned to the black bone, only to the actual foot bone, usually green. You also need to make sure that no CPs are assigned to the purple Body bone (the one that sticks straight out the back.) Re-assign any CPs that get assigned to the Body bone to one of the lower Spine bones instead.

 

If any joints bend the wrong way after running Rigger, open the copy you saved after assigning CPs, but before you ran Rigger, and check the roll handles on the bones comprising the ill-behaved joint. Odds are they're pointing the wrong way. Just swing them around and re-run Rigger. (This happens quite often as you drag bones around, and is why TSM bugs you all the time to save your model before continuing. Get in the habit of doing so, because you can't "un-rig" once you run Rigger. Save right before, because you'll reload that model and tweak CPs and roll handles, and re-run Rigger over and over until you get it right.)

 

Works great...and I'm a total novice at using TSM2.

[pixelmech]

Thanks Sev, that helps!

[Morgan]

No, no -- that would really drive you insane. TSM Rigger puts in control bones for you to use, but it hides all the bones you don't actually animate with. So you don't see, say, all the spine bones -- just the torso and the pelvis controls. The pose sliders are for things like IK/FK switching and stretchiness -- things that you can't readily control with bones.

 

-Morgan

[pixelmech]

No, no -- that would really drive you insane. TSM Rigger puts in control bones for you to use, but it hides all the bones you don't actually animate with. So you don't see, say, all the spine bones -- just the torso and the pelvis controls. The pose sliders are for things like IK/FK switching and stretchiness -- things that you can't readily control with bones.

 

-Morgan

Ah ok - so I'll do my primary animating with the controls. And you are saying I won't ever use the bones to pose then - just the controls? Some of this is starting to make a little sense...

[Morgan]

Yep, you got it. In fact, unless you turn off the TSM constraints pose, you won't even be able to use the underlying bones to pose your character directly -- they're all constrained to the control bones. Well, actually, they're constrained to various other bones, which are ultimately constrained to the control bones, in various complex ways that create the various systems in the TSM2 rig. But that's beside the point. The point is that the complexity is invisible, including the bones that are directly controlling the geometry. When you're actually using the rig, it should be simple -- well, as simple as character animation can be.

 

-Morgan

 

(And in case it isn't clear, Sev got it entirely right, making my post fairly redundant -- I just got distracted between writing my reply and hitting "post.")

[Sevenar]

Right, instead of pulling five leg bones around, you just pick up the Foot Control bone and move it, pointing it with the Toe Control Bone. All the leg bones are invisible once the Rigger is finished, except for the feet & toe bones. If you grab the Foot Control bone and lift it up and forward, the hip automatically rotates and the knee bends at the proper angle.

 

The Neck bone and most of the Spine bones disappear, leaving you with a Head Control bone, an Upper Torso bone, and a Pelvis bone. The Body Control bone still sticks straight out the back and you can grab it to move the entire model, or perhaps bend the model over at the waist.

 

Most of the Arm bones stay, since you usually need more fine control over arm movements, but they're just as easy to use as the others.

 

It's really quite simple--and quite amazing--how it works.

[Sevenar]

Oops, cross-post!