alweb
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Hi Vern
I don't know if this set will still stand for Bob Taylor's need.
But let say , at this time that a good scene set is still usable anyway.
With this in mind , here my comments and suggest about the set...
Your free to interprete it in your own way...
1- the office seem to long, I would cut it in two.
this will leave more space to the tools and sand mold area on the left balcony
1A- no-need for the second door and the passage in front of the office...
1B - the stairway to the office door should be backed up to follow the office ...
2- Adding more pillars under, and put some steel frame on the surrounding walls and corner would help
maybe some can go straight to the roof
3-I would see some window on the top of left wall... for fresh air
4- Make sure you can move the walls and stuff independently... to make space for camera angle and lightning effect
5- the bucket is too big... the foundry part of the shop should be a small one...see the ref picture I've posted before on that topic...It'll show some interesting proportions.
6- I would move the intrance door , windows and the little arc balcony more to the left , this will leave more space at the top of the stairway...
6A- What about a balcony ramp be made with concrete ? just an idea here...
7- I you can , make some camera shot to show good location where action would happen... related to the script.
8- Some rought lightning , to show atmosphere...
9- Ken is right , the step of the stairway seem to big...
that's it ... it was my 2 cent on that ...
great work Vern
Thanks
Alain
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Fantastic ! very cool !
This make the overall project much more funny and interesting.
IMHO , The speedy sequence is not a problem , it can even reveal some cool Am 3d effect and trick...
Al
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Hi,
Great distorsion map effect Vern.
But don't you fear that this technique will task rendering too much ?
IMHO keeping the front house simple would help to outline character ...
How about just using a concrete wall with big rock placed here and there...
... still lot of place for nice details, ... dirt and crack map would be cool
... the wood used for the window would be very old etc.
Is the distorsion map rock effect wouldn't be a better use for low walls surrounding the place ?
Here some ideas not drawn on the sketche:
Maybe some wood beam to sustain the roof ?..
... and the roof be made of orange tiles
my two cent
Al
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....he set I have is as long as a football field... approximately... it has the stairs in the same spot with the upper level that circles the foundry.... it's just really big... really big... did I say it was big?
Your scale seem right Vern... have you notice the arrow to "other department " in the top view ?
If you wish you can add a paint shop , bio lab , private rooms etc. ... but those places are not in the script so useless but an enlargement possibility should be good ... like if you can see that there are other dept even if nothing is happening there...
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Alain, Can you indicate where they find the Tin Head? ... I suppose he could just be sitting on an open shelf behind some "junk".
Yes , this sound pretty plausible to me
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Modeling Chains? Anyone have an idea how I should handle the chains?
...modeling and rig a chain is a good 3D challenge isn't it ?
...an idea : some automated robot running on the floor should add some fun to that place... ku-klip need help to run a shop like that...
Al
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Hi Vern, and all other who make great models.
Here some sketches I've done who give some clues about the ku-klip workshops sketches I've made before.
also some ref pictures that show a strap system and other interesting elements.
William ask me to post them here ... hope it can help
I'll try to give some feedback on the thread if necessary ... but you still made a great follow on that.
Al
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...In the forest the trees observe a wood chopper and said: " the axe's shaft is one of us ..."
interesting turk proverb.
Al
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Hi
Good work Seven ! It's cool to see someone doing more from my modeling.
You can do so much funny stuff with a Bush Model ! hehehe
I have to said that most of my modeling work (available on the extra CD) are not very "up-to-date" stuff .These models has been done 3-4 years ago ! an eternity in 3D.
About the "mando face tutorial" and other reference or tech notes exposed on my website tutorial , it's quite old stuff too , still useful for beginner in some ways ... I think ?
So don't worry about any broken link or obsolete instructions, I don't have any plan to update the website at this time . I got lot of new 3D stuff at home and I'll probably make a new one than updating the old... but don't wait for me, I'm very sloooowww ! zzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
thank peoples
Al
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Hi
Nancy This link is incredible ! I'm very please to get it.
there's so many thing available...too cool!
Thanks a bunch ...
Al
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My little niece said to me " bigger the axe ! " So...bigger the axe
Thanks
Al
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Here Tin Woodman , some idea of mechanical stuff...
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Some more sketches...
Here a scene with the friends on the road in background the tin castle stand on a lake or river...
I know , I've added a character ... but there's always a frog somewhere in a story isn't it ?
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Hi
Where would I find an online version of the original piece Tinman of Oz ?
Hey William ! Is your kangi sign is :
"WA" meaning harmony-peace ?
Edit : This "edit" feature is cool... especially when what you said is...obsolete
hehehe!
...and I've found something about the online version
Thanks
Al
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Yes, I agree. It's time to get the rough voices to make a previz and start refining this baby
Maybe storyboard it out is the next step now, ...
I think the script should be stabilized first , a house begin with good foundation ...
MHO
Al
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I agree with the need. I think the fate of his breaking heart is the natural arc, and viewer concern with what will happen if it completely shatters, as it should be progressing toward since he cannot have Nimee.
The fear of Tin heart falling apart as the "natural arc" ? mmmm ?
This bring me some lights , I'll read it with this perspective in mind.
Thank Peter
Al
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Perhaps the flashback of tinmans transition could be made into an exciting prologue? I find flashbacks don't have the intensity of what is thought to be the present.
Edit: I like the idea of unifying the evil characters. Instead of having to introduce both the witch and Mrs Yoop. Mrs Yoop would obviously be the one that should stay.
Ken, I think this would be helpful ...
Also perhaps a "Woot establishing shot" would be set at the same time ?...
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Something happened to Woot who force him to quit his country... something caused by the same evil witch who had persecuted Nimmie... and that's why Woot is searching adventure to repair his credibility , his strenght , honor or what you may think of... ? This arc would be completed when the evil will be punish at the end...
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Regarding unification of the evil forces... Mrs Yoops might be "in contact" with the Evil Witch at some point to receive instructions , payback , menace or pressure from her ... see what I mean
"I know my english is worst with each reply , hehehe ! and you don't have to ear me ! "
it's just some toughts anyway ... trying to be constuctive
Thanks
Al
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Camera cuts to Ku-Klip cowering on the ground in the middle of making Tin Girl in his workshop. Mrs Yoop is there telling him to hurry up with her slave. The dust is gathering in her house and she can't cook! This slave will carry out her every whim!! Haahahahahahaaha.
Ken , this is a good way to announce Tin girl , avoiding her to tell us where she come from...
Alain
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Hi
I've search the script to find "plot" and other mechanic element ,
( I've used the synopsis I've posted before as a guide ) I've found :
1-A plot would be " searching Nimmie Amee " or " Tin Woodman love problem "
2-Action in loonville would not qualify as a "plot" but more as an "event"
3-As for what happen in Tinsmith shop , it's not a plot
4-At Nimmie Amee's house , IMO it's more a "conclusion" of the first "plot",... It happen in middle of the story and cut it in two ... so you got "before Nimmie's House" and "after Nimmie's house".
It sound problematic to me.
5-With events at Mrs Yoops castle , I got difficulty to define a plot in the scene... there is lot of action but what would be a plot ? I mean in regard of the whole story ...
A plot would be " escape from here " ??
6-Disapearing and be found by Ozma (hippogyraf) is the conclusion...of course Tin Woodman love problem is solve and the evil is punish but... It miss something ...probably something that has not been established in the beginning ...
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IMHO "explanation" should be done by the events and in action, not much by the characters themself . Here some aspect I've found , related to or I would suggest to revise ...
(010-011)-Woot explain where he come from , his country etc. in Tin castle
(021-027)-Tin Woodman recall ( lot of voice over ) a recall is good , but not as an explanation container... and so soon it would look like a first episode reminder...
(044-044)-scarecrow song --- not a "must scene"
(046-046)-overflow replic
(097-112)-Tin head scene ---funny but not a "must scene"
(126-130)-from Klu-Klip about Chopfyt etc. at tinsmith shop (explanation overflow)
(131-131)- Is the transition to Nimmie's house a bit fast ?
(132-170)-At Nimmie's house, lot of explanation and few action , for a so important confrontation ...
(200-200)-Is the green monkey "trick" should be set by Yoop when she transform Woot ? We learn this by Ozma (341) at the end and it look like a patch...
(216-216)-Tin Girl explanation about her story
( 262-273 ) transition : freed from Yoop, walking in badland they complaining of the situation--not a "must scene"
(271-271)- overflow dialogue
(278-278)-explanation by scarecrow about the invisible world
(293-293)-explanation, hippogyraf explain itself ? (sound childish ?)
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Some solutions and ideas :
*** An intro should be done where Woot presence is establish . Why his presence as a traveller looking for adventure ? where he come from ? etc. ... this would be the plot B resolved in the conclusion
*** Remember Dorothy is coming to Oz world from a tornado , this is the main plot , at the end she go back to her house in the real world ... her quest in the Oz world turn around her "come back" to normal life ... So In the same manner what drive Woot ?
***Tin Wood man Quest for love would be the plot A that drive everybody all along the story.
*** Tin Woodman should fight his flesh counter part to get back Nimmie...His flesh counter part would be drived by the evil force since it was glued with magic stuff from the witch.
*** Nimmie should also leave his flesh body ( as her love commitment to Woodman ) and her spirit integrate the Tingirl servant ... So the two entity (tin man and tin girl ) are back together...
*** Maybe Mrs Yoops is just suffering from solitude , like a giant little girl who want more toys...Is something more evilish should be set for her ? ... anthropophagy or something ? hehehe
***The evil presence is set by the Witch who kept Nimmie (in the recall shot)...Mrs Yoop is coming after... So to keep the evil menace from the start, I would suggest to tie up Mrs Yoop to the witch maybe they can be the same character ? or Yoop a subsidiary of the main evil witch ? the two should be punish at the end...
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The script actually seem to me as a "collage" of scene tie up by transition ...of course there's links between scenes but the main plot (the one I found) is in a certain way stopped at Nimmie's house , after that there's lot of "catching up" to "patch" the story...
Maybe this is because the story is in "old style" ? , it would work for a book edited in that time ...
For sure you're aware that mechanic who rule "story" and used today are not the same ... have evolve with the medium ...
So as a composer choose his key in relation with the instrument , the script writer develop the story to trigger action to a determined point in the timeline (conclusion )...
This have not much to do with the theme , or actions , events , color of characters , atmosphere , and other elements who are important but does'nt constitute the spinal column of the story...This is very important IMO.
The beat process ( with the "must scene " trick) is just as good way to time how much scene you have to put together to get it done in the movie lenght you wish...
This was my tought at this time , hope I've not bother you to much with that.
ok thanks
Al
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That is from Jeffrey Scott, "write stuff" column 2, and his other stuff is at:
http://users.adelphia.net/~getjeffrey/
A question to ask ourself maybe is if a 30 minute (that would be more like 20 minute) script contains 15 beats, then how many beats would a 90 minute movie contain?
http://users.adelphia.net/~getjeffrey/WriteStuff.htm
Thanks for the reference Yves, I've lost it
How many beat for a 90 minute movie ? Is the Oz story is a 90 minutes movie ?
ha hum ! this is.... long !
maybe it'll contain 40-45 beats ? 30 min X 3 = 90 min so...
Al
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Nice model Stian,
I'm working myself on a sail boat since a while and I know how hard it is to model manufactured form like that , as for cars , boat , planes etc.
great work !
Alain
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...You're right Ken,
I think that there is kind of two story...
The first is from the start to the point where Nimmie Amee reject Tin Woodman
... and the second from this point to the end.
IMHO, there also lot of "explanations" done by the characters , characters should do thing not explain situation ... count them you'll see...
Of course , there no "recipe" for script writing but some pro ( not me for sure!
hehe ! ) think that there is some stuff who "work " and some that won't work... and it's not a question of the theme , cool stuff , hot stunt , nice picture etc....it's more about the "mechanic" under the hood used to trigger the action...On my personnal side , if you know me , you won't be surprise if I'm for a mix of the Oz story with a remake of "heavy metal 2006" and use the 100 K budget to buy some rights to use metal hit ! hehehe !
...watch him become a god , until his head explode ... symphony of destruction
hehehe !
Alain
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Hi, me again ! hehehe !
The little I've learn about script writing , I took it in this paper...
I don't remember who's wrote it , sorry for the author ... grin
This help me a lot in my own thing...I got other paper from the same pro , about "writing terms", "pilot" "character bible" and other marketing stuff... if some are interested I would find a place to
post it...
thanks
Alain
the text about "plot A / plot B stuff " :
Rather than attempt to espouse the "eternal truths" I'm going to run through how I create a
half-hour story. Over the years I've developed a simple method that works quite well.
Let's say we're writing for an animated action-comedy series starring a trio of goofy but nice
aliens, disguised as high school teens, who work undercover on Earth trying to save the planet
from invasion by a mother ship full of nasty aliens.
Okay, so we need a story idea...a premise. We want something that fits with the characters and
format, is as unique and clever as possible while at the same time somewhat familiar.
We need a beginning, middle and end.
So we begin with a character problem for our goofy alien heroes. Perhaps they're in school taking
a physics test which, for them, seems simple as 2+2. Trouble is, one of them answers the question so completely that the teacher realizes he's just discovered the theory of time travel.
This gives us an interesting subplot and complicates the story. Our goofy aliens have to work hard to keep their cover from getting blown when everyone learns what they've discovered.
Although this is the B-story, it is this plot that will give us the most character and comedy.
For the nasty aliens' plot we'll have them attempt to depopulate air and army bases by creating a "humanoid" walking tornado which can suck up anything. That's fairly unique (at least I've never written it before).
Now we need a funny way for our goofy alien heroes to handle this, so we'll have them don wacky backpacks and disguise themselves as tornado-busters (that's the familiar part, poking fun at two hit movies). This is the A-story. The action plot.
So we've basically got a character subplot for our beginning, an alien monster attack for our
middle, and we'll end by having our heroes thwart the nasty aliens' plan, while at the same time
resolving their time travel subplot.
We've now got our basic story. Next we have to work out the scenes (or beats).
Typically, in a half-hour episode, we need from 10-15 beats, depending on how long we make each one. But how do we come up with all these story beats?
The answer is amazingly simple. Just ask yourself one question: "What are the scenes that must
be there?"
Let's go back to our story example: We might want to have a threatening teaser at the top of the
show with the nasty aliens creating their tornado monster. But we must have a scene that introduces our main characters at school. We must have a scene in which our heroes encounter the tornado monster. We must have a scene in which the tornado monster attacks a military base (or two).
We must have a scene in which our goofy alien heroes try, and fail, to stop the monster.
We must have a scene in which they attempt to figure out how they can cleverly defeat the nasty aliens' plan.
With regard to the subplot, we must have a scene in which the time travel subplot complicates
the story. The most obvious would be to send one of our heroes back in time. If we do this, then we must have a funny scene in the past.
Now in order to ensure that the time travel subplot is not a waste of time (no pun intended) it has to advance the story. So our time traveler must return with something from the past that helps resolve the plot (perhaps he comes back with Leonardo da Vinci who helps devise a cockamamie helicopter that sucks up the tornado monster). Of course, we must have a climactic battle scene in which the heroes defeat the nasty aliens. And finally, we must have a last scene, called the tag, that wraps up our show with a gag.
Now, all of these scenes are, for the most part, essential points that I didn't have to think about because they are logically necessary to the plot. So for a 10 scene story our work is practically done. If we want a more detailed plot we can search for 2-3 additional scenes that complicate the villains' plans, our heroes' plans, or our subplot. We can even add a clever twist or two.
But the point I'm making is that writing stories is very simple. And if you don't get stuck in the "complexity" of it all, the story beats are usually right there.
You don't even have to worry about the order in which you think of the scenes.
That's because the final system I use takes care of this. I put the beats together with what I call the "box and arrow" technique.
After fully answering the "must scene" question write down all of your beats on one sheet of paper and put a box around each. Find the one that should come first and label it #1.
Then draw an arrow from that box to the next scene in logical sequence and label it #2.
Do this until you've connected all your scenes. It may look like the wiring schematic for a cruise missile, but it will give you a good idea of your story, which scenes are missing and which you might not need.
Cool isn't it ?
Al
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Hi
again some tought...
At this time I can see some problems in the "mechanic" of the script...
Is somebody familiar with the "plot A / plot B technique " in script writing ?
If some want to discuss about this I would elaborate, if not it's ok too
... I don't want to be a spoilsport ! hehehe
bye
Alain
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Hi
I've some question in mind about the script...
- Who is the hero ?
- Who is the Vilain ?
- Is this story is more about Woot ? or Tin Woodman ?
Thanks
Al
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Hi,
I've made a short resume of the script to get a better understanding of the story.
with a kind of progression bar...in case this help other ,
If I made mistake somewhere or got it wrong , let me know.
synopsis
Day 1
1- ( 000-043 ) Woot come to Tin Woodman castle , associate with him and Scarecrow in a Quest to find Nimmie Amee ( Tin Woodman 's love )
A- ( 043-060 ) transition : they're traveling an open road , Scarecrow sing , they rest at night
Day 2
2- ( 060-083 ) In Loonsville, they are captured by loons,Woot manage to escape with his friends
B- ( 083-090 ) transition : They're traveling in Munchkin county to tinsmith shop
3- ( 090-131 ) In tinsmith shop, they talk to a cloned tin head and got info from Klu-Klip on Nimmee and about the existence of Chopfyt...
C- ( 131-132 ) transition : They leave as Klu-Klip get back to his work
4- ( 132-170 ) At Nimmie's house , they find that Nimmie is no more in love with Tin Woodman and live with Chopfyt, Tin Woodman supported by his friend quit with a broken heart.
D- ( 170-170 ) transition :They are now traveling in the badland
Day 3 ( start in middle of # 5 )
5- ( 170-262 ) Coming to Mrs Yoop castle , captured and transformed by her into a Tin Owl , stuffed bear, and a green monkey ... meet with Tingirl and after some action they escape from Mrs Yoop
Day 4
E- ( 262-273 ) transition : In badland, they walk and speak together, complaining of the situation
6- ( 273-351 ) They disappear and been found by the hippogyraf who is Ozma, She transform them back to normal , tin man and girl share the same heart... Woot is also back as a boy...
7- ( 351-end ) final : Mrs Yoop get what she deserve and has been changed into green monkey ( to get Woot back from this trick of Ozma)
Thanks
Al
Ku-klip's Workshop sets
in TWO: General Discussion
Posted
Nice work Vern !
Your models look good from here... thanks for the fly trought ... very usefull.
I can't wait to see the set full equipmed !
... like a long workbench with vise and anvil , and a set of shelves along the wall of the first level ... also the machine tools and drill powered by strap ...
Have you plan to add a strap system with the transmission gears from the water power wheel ?
>How about adding a big fan extractor in a wall or in the roof? Just a thought. <
Good idea Paul
About proportion.. I think it's "real life size " on everything ...isn't it ? (based on Tin woodmans size )
Regards
Alain