Sevenar Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 This is a Wings3D import of a 3DS model of the Master Chief character from the Xbox game "Halo". Master Chief A:M model About all I can get it to do is load. Neither the bones nor the skin made it across the translation. Anyway, is there any way at all to get this mesh rigged? I wouldn't know where to start on something like this. Is there any way to kind of spline "over" it to make a true A:M model instead of a poly mesh? It's for an amateur fan video a bunch of friends and I are making for the Halo 2 launch in November. If anybody has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate them. If there are any professionals out there, how much would a job like this cost (bearing in mind that this project isn't going to be sold, obviously, due to Microsoft's copyrights) ? Any advice gladly accepted, Sevenar Quote
Roughy Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 take it from me mate, if u r going to be able to animate that, ye got a lot of clean up to do. i tried to import the original 3ds model released by bungie into a:m. the maps for the head and arms made it through, rest was crap. and also notice that the model only looks good when its peaked, smooten it and you`ll see the messy parts. i tried to clean it up, but its just too messy. like 3 splines where there should be one, lotsa odd connections. you`d be better off modeling it from scratch. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 22, 2004 Author Posted September 22, 2004 Rats. I was afraid of that. I can't model worth a hoot. There's no way to get the arms to move independently in the game engine, so I have to have an external animation solution in order to do what I want to do. Nothing's ever easy, is it? Thanks for trying, though. If anyone else has any good ideas, please let me know. Thanks, Sev Quote
Roughy Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 wait up.. okey, he is messy. but if you keep him peaked (non smoothend). he is actuly not that bad. of course, peaked wont look that good, but its what everyone else has been doing (if u seen the guys over at halo.bungie.org that have been messing with these models in max, they always keep them peaked) i started to rig him, got the foot done. Quote
KenH Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 Triangles don't work in AM. No two ways about it. Is it possible to export the 3DS file into quads? That model has no continuity to it. It's just made of seperate triangles. The only possibility of animating him would be if he was like a robot ie arms and legs only rotate on the one plane. Quote
Roughy Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 i got the legs looking decent tho. anyway, im dropping the rigging and im going to clean him up instead. lotsa work to do now.. Quote
Roughy Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 okey, i give up, that thing is way too messed up. would be animateable tho. Quote
Roughy Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 okey. i found the original .3ds model. and its actuly looking sharp. the few parts that still are textured, look mighty fine. the rest, well. looks like you expect it to look. but either way. trying to tweak these decals into place.. Quote
Roughy Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 got the decals somewhat lookin good now, they get kinda distorted when i smoothen it tho. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 23, 2004 Author Posted September 23, 2004 Holy cow! I didn't think I'd ever see anything even close to that! I could certainly work around the bare spots with judicious camera positioning. Even if I couldn't get the right arm rigged, I might be able to fake it enough to complete the shots I can't manufacture in the game engine. Roughy, that's some really good work. How can I get that project from you? Many, many thanks, Sev Quote
Roughy Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 the version of the model i got is a lot cleaner than yours. the patches on yours are not connceted, on this one they are. and im sure ill be able to fill in the few missing texture spots, just gimme some time... Quote
Sevenar Posted September 23, 2004 Author Posted September 23, 2004 Fantastic! I humbly await your next display of your masterful A:M kung-fu... Quote
triath5147 Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 Just a suggestion but when I import from other miserable programs, I usually go through the model and get rid of all the triangles making them 4 point patches, by breaking points and deleting splines. It takes about an hour on 800 to 1000 poly models, but it animates smoother, is easier to manage, and looks better. and once you export back out of AM it will be peaked and smoothed where it is supposed to be, so it holds up against the original look of the model. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 23, 2004 Author Posted September 23, 2004 That's a good idea, but as Roughy said, the original model I found didn't have the patches connected so there wouldn't have been much point. (no pun intended!) Regards, Sev Quote
Roughy Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 i spent a lot of time trying to clean up the model sevenar imported. tok me about an hour of cleaning til i relized everything was connected in 3point patches. and each 3point patch wasnt connected to the next patch. so basicly. it was just a bunch of piece put next to each other. Quote
Monterey Jack Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 Hey Roughy, Where'd you get the the 3ds model you tried to use? I'd like to take a look at it. Thanks, Gregg Quote
Sevenar Posted September 25, 2004 Author Posted September 25, 2004 I couldn't find Bungie's 3DS version, but then again I didn't exhaust all the Halo mod sites either. I think Roughy's work looks great, though, and I can't wait to get my hands on the finished product. I'm really glad the A:M user community is so helpful. Perhaps someday I can return the favor. Sev Quote
Roughy Posted September 26, 2004 Posted September 26, 2004 okay. bad freaking news. im at a lan right now, when i woke up after a few hours of sleep i found that the folder where i keep most of my models was deleted everything ive done the last year, including the mc. gunna have to fix it up again, ill have it somewhat decaled agian in a few days Quote
triath5147 Posted September 26, 2004 Posted September 26, 2004 If the model was just a mess of triangles, than the problem is the file format, when it was exported had mipmaps. You want to avoid this at all costs, and start from scratch and export the model or get an exported model that does not have mip maps for the skin. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 26, 2004 Author Posted September 26, 2004 Roughy: Ouch.... Well, stuff happens. Just let me know when you're back up to speed, please! Thanks, Sev Quote
Roughy Posted September 28, 2004 Posted September 28, 2004 okey, i got it back to where i was before i lost it. few texture glitches, like a phantom patch covering the parts, not sure, odd stuff. http://www.streamload.com/roughy/mc2.mdl <--a:m http://www.streamload.com/roughy/mc.3ds <-original 3ds version the only problem with importing the 3ds is that the decals screw up, atleast thats the only problem as long as you keep the model peaked. i tried earlier to rig him a bit, hes built pretty good for this, shouldnt be much of a problem. happy rigging. Quote
KenH Posted September 28, 2004 Posted September 28, 2004 You've done well with what you had to work with. I still maintain that he's too spline heavy to animate well. Also, the model's size in kb is quite cumbersome. If you had the patience, you could delete all the "cross splines" and make 2 tris into 1 quad. That would probably improve it. But then there's the problem of continuity of the splines....oh I'll stop thinking about it. Quote
Roughy Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 i was on about deleted the cross splines, but it seems the decals depend on them, and actuly creating new decal information just takes to much patience, and i used up all that when getting it back to this after it was deleted.. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 29, 2004 Author Posted September 29, 2004 Roughy: Thank you soooo much! One minor problem--the CYBORG2.BMP and FACEPLATECHROME.BMP files are missing. Can I get those from you too? Thanks! Sev Quote
pia12254 Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 I was curious about Ken's comment about the model not animating well. I also wanted to see what it was like to work with a model that had been converted. I rigged the little guy and did a quick run cycle. It looks like the patches do cause all kinds of crazy render artifacts...too bad, he would be a cool model to animate! Maybe if someone used the converted model as a reference it would be easier to just build in AM...of course, I'm not the one whose going to do that so I guess "easy" is a relative term... He is pretty spline heavy but he seems to pose fairly well without too much distortion. I only spent about 30 mintues rigging him (maybe that's a lot...I'm pretty slow :-) ) so I think with work you could get him to work pretty well. If I did it right, I think I attached the run cycle. Quote
pia12254 Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 ...Trying to attach run cycle....arrghhh.... Any ideas why it won't let me attach a video file??? It is only 29 frames long and I have tried .mov, .wmv., .avi and it keeps sayng, "You cannot upload this type of file". I'm sure it is something obvious but I have uploaded things in the past and not had problems... any ideas? Quote
KenH Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 You can only attach an image or files like proj...I think. I believe animations need to be re-directed from your site. In any event, nothing bigger than 1mb is allowed. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 29, 2004 Author Posted September 29, 2004 The problem in my particular case is that most of the film footage will be shot with the game engine so the whole thing won't have to be hand-animated, which would take a total novice like me thousands of hours. Unfortunately, the Halo game engine doesn't let you do anything but run, jump, crouch, shoot, throw, hit, and drive. You can't drop your gun at all (except in one hackable instance) and even then, you can't move your arms once you drop it. Soooo....for any shot that requires the Master Chief to do anything with his hands where he doesn't have a gun in them, you simply have to have an external animation to composite into the game backgrounds. He can't point, punch a button, lift anything, etc. Now most of that I can work around with clever camera angles and judicious editing, but there are going to be a few shots where he'll just have to use his hands, so if I can just get a close approximation in A:M, he doesn't have to be a perfectly-animatable model. Just enough to move one arm independently should be enough, although being able to bend and pose the whole model would be ideal. If the patches distort, I'll just have to figure out a camera angle to minimize the flaw, shoot wide shots so the A:M model is too small to notice the bugs, but big enough where you can see the action, etc. It's just the vagaries of "machinima". It's sort of a cross between animation and a marionette show. If I can just get the decals from Roughy, I'll be in business... Sev Quote
pia12254 Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 Ah ha! Finally a workaround for the cheap wanker that doesn't want to pay for web space... I am trying to insert the run cycle as an animated .gif. Hope it works. Sevenar, I think it will probably work for what you are describing. Although the hands are very basic and may need to be reworked. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 29, 2004 Author Posted September 29, 2004 Wow. I sure am glad there are people out there who know what the heck they're doing. That's fantastic! I think it looks great! If you can get me that rigged version, I'll gladly credit you both in the video. It would save me an enormous amount of time. Thanks! Sev Quote
chris Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 Just a quick note... you have some funny patch shimmering going on there... I assume it has to do with the splinage mess that occurs when importing a 3DS file into A:M but thought I'd mention it. It will probably become more noticable when textures are added as patches will pop out through the textured mesh when animating a messy imported model like this. You may have to do more cleanup after all. :S You did do a remarkable job importing it though... I usually choose to remodel it than try and work through all that strangeness. Quote
pia12254 Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 Hey Sevenar, Yeah dude, you're welcome to the rigged version. I just set it up with Weight Mover and The Setup Machine. I just got the Setup Machine and this is really the first thing I've rigged with it. It is an amazing rig to animate with!!!! Without the fingers I think it only has like 10-12 bones to animate everything...and you can get the coolest poses with it. Just let me know how you want me to get it to you. It is actually on my computer at work and I might not be in tomorrow or Friday so it might be as late as Monday... Quote
Roughy Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 lol! my bad. forgot the textures yah. one sec.... http://www.streamload.com/roughy/mc.zip looks ten times better with the textures i tell ya, as long as you keep him peaked, looks pretty good when hes smooth too. and could i have that rigged version too ? first time i attempted importing the masterchief months ago my purpose was to make a small movie out of it. realy wanna see that get done. Quote
pia12254 Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 Hey Roughy, Sure thing man. I don't know how people usually exchange projects here. I have seen people just post the link as an attachment within a post so I will do that as soon as I get the chance. When you guys get some cool stills/animations done be sure and show us! Later. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 30, 2004 Author Posted September 30, 2004 Hey Sevenar, Yeah dude, you're welcome to the rigged version. I just set it up with Weight Mover and The Setup Machine. I just got the Setup Machine and this is really the first thing I've rigged with it. It is an amazing rig to animate with!!!! Without the fingers I think it only has like 10-12 bones to animate everything...and you can get the coolest poses with it. Just let me know how you want me to get it to you. It is actually on my computer at work and I might not be in tomorrow or Friday so it might be as late as Monday... You can zip it up and email it to me at sevenar AT bellsouth D0T net (can you tell how much I hate spambots?) I really, really appreciate it. Please let me know how you'd like to be credited in the email. Roughy, if you'd do the same, that'd be cool. I fully believe in giving credit where it's due. Thanks again, Sev Quote
Sevenar Posted September 30, 2004 Author Posted September 30, 2004 Is there something I can do by hand to eliminate the bigger gray patches? I'm not so concerned with the smaller ones--looks like normal wear, or something. But there's at least one large one in any angle I can position the camera, though. Also, is it possible for me to copy and grayscale the main skin BMP to make it some sort of specularity map? The metallic bits are shiny in the game engine, and it would help the compositing if I could get a slight glint off of the plates. It's not a big deal if I can't do it, but surely that's within A:M's material capabiities, isn't it? Thanks, Sev Quote
pia12254 Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 Hey guys, Here is the rigged version. I don't think the hands really work...not enough detail really to make it worthwhile. I ran it through WeightMover so it has some control point weighting applied to prevent creases at joints etc. However, to really make it flawless will probably take more work (smartskin, fan bones etc.). Let me know if you need anything else! mc2b_RiggedA.mdl Quote
Roughy Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 okey, this is odd... i am unable to select anything. refuses to select splines at all. what version you running ? creating a new model and importing it doesnt work either, oddish stuff.. good rig, except the hips aint that sweet. it doesnt bend where its supposed to. Quote
Sevenar Posted September 30, 2004 Author Posted September 30, 2004 It doesn't like the premade Actions in 10.5r, (gets all twisted up) but apart from that, SIMPLY AWESOME. You guys are the coolest. If you want to see a short sample animated with the Halo engine (nothing A:M), click below. Special Bulletin (PG-13 version) (QuickTime, right-click, Save As 3.3MB) The announcer is actually George Lowe, voice of Cartoon Network's Space Ghost: Coast to Coast. He was kind enough to do some voiceovers for our various projects. Quote
Roughy Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 heh, you cant pirate red vs blue, since its freely downloadable at their web site... and as for the premade actions screwing it up, i dont think the rig pia used is the same as the one used for the premade actions. Quote
Sevenar Posted October 1, 2004 Author Posted October 1, 2004 Roughy: Technically true, but some jerks pirated their DVDs and plastered them on BitTorrents last season. The Sponsors also get hi-res versions of the videos three days early, plus the DVD of the season for free at the end of it. Season 3 will start this week, along with their new series The Strangerhood. Sev Quote
pia12254 Posted October 1, 2004 Posted October 1, 2004 Hey guys, I am using 10.5 (r?)...I'm not sure why it would behave so strangely? Even if you have a later version like 11.0, it seems like it should still work. As for the hips not bending in the right place...yeah, this is the first character I've ever rigged with TSM and probably the 2nd/3rd I've ever tried to rig...not my forte! Sorry about that. I don't know if you can adjust it now that it has been run through the Setup Machine. I kind of think not based on my own attempts. As for the premade actions that come with Hash CD...they will not work because the actions are built for the Hash rig which is different from the Setup Machine rig. I forgot to send you the run action I had built...sorry again! But it was pretty simple so you can probably replicate it pretty easily. If you still want it later I will try and post it when I get back to my computer. Later fellas. Quote
Roughy Posted October 1, 2004 Posted October 1, 2004 aight then, wonder why the heck its so screwy for me.... well, either way. since the hips are messed ill prolly end up rigging it myself anyway. Quote
Roughy Posted October 1, 2004 Posted October 1, 2004 hehe, just saw one of ur vids over at halotv sevenar Quote
Sevenar Posted October 1, 2004 Author Posted October 1, 2004 Which one, "Warthog Motor Madness"? That was a lot of fun to do... Quote
Sevenar Posted October 3, 2004 Author Posted October 3, 2004 Yep, that's the one. If you go to www.sponsorsvsfreeloaders.com you can see some more. Quote
Roughy Posted October 4, 2004 Posted October 4, 2004 lol, ive seen it like 3times now (trying to win a headset at HaloTV, and i did ) Quote
Sevenar Posted October 4, 2004 Author Posted October 4, 2004 Cool! Glad somebody's getting a little profit off of it! Quote
Sevenar Posted October 5, 2004 Author Posted October 5, 2004 Hey, guys? (beg, beg, grovel, grovel) Any way you might be able to, um, do the Elite model too? Nah, forget I said anything... Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.