thefreshestever Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 david, i´m loosing my mind over this, maybe you can explain what happens... i´ve added some forearm and bicep bowing to my animation, and then the elbows start popping randomly. i´ve seen this before, it sometimes happens if at some point arm squetching is involved. and it is in this animation, but the popping occured not before adding the bow... now the funny thing is, when i remove the bowing, it still is there... test.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 david, i´m loosing my mind over this, maybe you can explain what happens... i´ve added some forearm and bicep bowing to my animation, and then the elbows start popping randomly. i´ve seen this before, it sometimes happens if at some point arm squetching is involved. and it is in this animation, but the popping occured not before adding the bow... now the funny thing is, when i remove the bowing, it still is there... Can you send me the model and Action/Choreography, Sebastian? That would make it easier for me to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 here´s two versions of it... version D is with all the keys for bow and squetch removed, in version C it´s still in... but it still happens in both versions... frame 25.10 for instance... you will have to clip skip when opening a gazillion times, since there are so many models in the chor... mainscene_anim01_C.cho mainscene_anim01_D.cho baldy_ready.mdl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The popping didn't happen in v16, but I see it in v17. Now that I see it, I can do some more investigating. I'll post again shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 forget the info on the frame number, it varies after closing and reopening... i just deleted everything except the keys for hand ik controls and elbow controls, and it´s still happening the keys are set to zero slope, so the elbow bone isn´t moving during holds... but still... but i´m working in v16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 It acts like a circularity in the constraints...that may not be it, but I'll do some digging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 when i delete the keys for the elbow, the popping stops... but when i only set a single key, it starts again... what i dont understand is, that before i keyframed the bows, everything worked fine... and what i also don´t understand, why was my model saved when i saved the project? i didn´t change the model in days, so it shouldn´t have been written over today, right? seems to me like some constraints got messed up due to adding keyframes in the in the chor without touching the model itself.. can that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 when i delete the keys for the elbow, the popping stops... but when i only set a single key, it starts again... what i dont understand is, that before i keyframed the bows, everything worked fine... and what i also don´t understand, why was my model saved when i saved the project? i didn´t change the model in days, so it shouldn´t have been written over today, right? seems to me like some constraints got messed up due to adding keyframes in the in the chor without touching the model itself.. can that be? I don't think you messed up the constraints, the problem may have been lurking waiting for the right combination of events to show itself. It could be a lot of things...right now, I'm thinking cirularity, which gives all kinds of crazy unrelated appearing problems. I'm still digging, so that may not be the problem in the end. I just have to go through a bunch of testing to isolate what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 i was able to reproduce it... try and switch the interpolation for the elbow controller to zero slope, and it will be gone, switch it back to spline and it pops... but it´s somehow weird again, because in the chor of my project everything is set to zero slope, including the elbows. testography.cho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 i was able to reproduce it... try and switch the interpolation for the elbow controller to zero slope, and it will be gone, switch it back to spline and it pops... but it´s somehow weird again, because in the chor of my project everything is set to zero slope, including the elbows. hmmm, after reopening and closing it´s gone... deleted the "scale to reach" keys and set keys for IKFK squetch for the right arm, had a short moment of popping while moving the slider, but nothing permanent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpeak2 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I turned OFF the supports limits/damping in the kinematic constraint on the forearm and the problem goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 I turned OFF the supports limits/damping in the kinematic constraint on the forearm and the problem goes away. thanks sounds good... but where do i find this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I turned OFF the supports limits/damping in the kinematic constraint on the forearm and the problem goes away. I haven't found anything else, so that may be it. I don't think that setting is necessary with the way the IK works now...so I'll change that in the next update. Thanks, Mark! Here's the updated character. If you run into anything else, yell. baldy_ready_update.mdl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 I turned OFF the supports limits/damping in the kinematic constraint on the forearm and the problem goes away. I haven't found anything else, so that may be it. I don't think that setting is necessary with the way the IK works now...so I'll change that in the next update. Thanks, Mark! Here's the updated character. If you run into anything else, yell. thanks a lot you 2 lords of the rigs!!! once again you saved the night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I turned OFF the supports limits/damping in the kinematic constraint on the forearm and the problem goes away. I haven't found anything else, so that may be it. I don't think that setting is necessary with the way the IK works now...so I'll change that in the next update. Thanks, Mark! Here's the updated character. If you run into anything else, yell. thanks a lot you 2 lords of the rigs!!! once again you saved the night! That one was Mark. He's my favorite rigger. I checked the legs (which are rigged with the same setup) and I had already set those to "OFF"...I guess I just missed fixing the same thing on the arms. Hopefully, nothing else pops up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 but could you explain how i can fix this for other existing characters by myself? i can´t find that constraint.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 The kinematic constraints on the forearm bones in the "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls/right_arm/right_arm_FK_IK" and "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls/left_arm/left_arm_FK_IK" needs the "Support Limits/Damping" set to "Off". You could just delete those Poses and drag the ones from the corrected model and re-save or you could go into the Poses and change that setting. Hope that helps. ----------------- Edit ----------------- I also e-mailed a link to you, Sebastian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 The kinematic constraints on the forearm bones in the "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls/right_arm/right_arm_FK_IK" and "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls/left_arm/left_arm_FK_IK" needs the "Support Limits/Damping" set to "Off". You could just delete those Poses and drag the ones from the corrected model and re-save or you could go into the Poses and change that setting. Hope that helps. ----------------- Edit ----------------- I also e-mailed a link to you, Sebastian. that does help. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 In the course of working on the Squetch Rig tutorials, I found out that turning off the "Support Limits/Damping" on the kinematic constraints on the forearms and calves breaks the "arms_IKFK_SQUETCH_biceps_and_forearms_individual" and "legs_IKFK_SQUETCH_thighs_and_calves_individual" Poses (very pronounced in IK). So, I turned those back on, moved the euler limit constraints to the "right_arm_FK_IK", "left_arm_FK_IK", "right_leg_FK_IK_toeIK" and "left_leg_FK_IK_toeIK" Poses, and set the euler limits to be "on" only in FK...it appears to eliminate the problems and I haven't found anything that it breaks. Here is an updated character and Choreography. The rig and Sam are updated here. mainscene_anim01_C_update_07_23_2013.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefreshestever Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 thanks david. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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