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elbow popping


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david, i´m loosing my mind over this, maybe you can explain what happens...

 

i´ve added some forearm and bicep bowing to my animation, and then the elbows start popping randomly. i´ve seen this before, it sometimes happens if at some point arm squetching is involved. and it is in this animation, but the popping occured not before adding the bow... now the funny thing is, when i remove the bowing, it still is there...

test.mov

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david, i´m loosing my mind over this, maybe you can explain what happens...

 

i´ve added some forearm and bicep bowing to my animation, and then the elbows start popping randomly. i´ve seen this before, it sometimes happens if at some point arm squetching is involved. and it is in this animation, but the popping occured not before adding the bow... now the funny thing is, when i remove the bowing, it still is there...

 

Can you send me the model and Action/Choreography, Sebastian? That would make it easier for me to find.

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here´s two versions of it...

 

version D is with all the keys for bow and squetch removed, in version C it´s still in... but it still happens in both versions... frame 25.10 for instance...

 

you will have to clip skip when opening a gazillion times, since there are so many models in the chor...

mainscene_anim01_C.cho

mainscene_anim01_D.cho

baldy_ready.mdl

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forget the info on the frame number, it varies after closing and reopening... i just deleted everything except the keys for hand ik controls and elbow controls, and it´s still happening :( the keys are set to zero slope, so the elbow bone isn´t moving during holds... but still... :angry:

 

but i´m working in v16 :blink:

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when i delete the keys for the elbow, the popping stops... but when i only set a single key, it starts again... what i dont understand is, that before i keyframed the bows, everything worked fine... and what i also don´t understand, why was my model saved when i saved the project? i didn´t change the model in days, so it shouldn´t have been written over today, right? seems to me like some constraints got messed up due to adding keyframes in the in the chor without touching the model itself.. can that be?

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when i delete the keys for the elbow, the popping stops... but when i only set a single key, it starts again... what i dont understand is, that before i keyframed the bows, everything worked fine... and what i also don´t understand, why was my model saved when i saved the project? i didn´t change the model in days, so it shouldn´t have been written over today, right? seems to me like some constraints got messed up due to adding keyframes in the in the chor without touching the model itself.. can that be?

 

I don't think you messed up the constraints, the problem may have been lurking waiting for the right combination of events to show itself. It could be a lot of things...right now, I'm thinking cirularity, which gives all kinds of crazy unrelated appearing problems. I'm still digging, so that may not be the problem in the end. I just have to go through a bunch of testing to isolate what's going on.

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i was able to reproduce it... try and switch the interpolation for the elbow controller to zero slope, and it will be gone, switch it back to spline and it pops...

 

but it´s somehow weird again, because in the chor of my project everything is set to zero slope, including the elbows.

testography.cho

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i was able to reproduce it... try and switch the interpolation for the elbow controller to zero slope, and it will be gone, switch it back to spline and it pops...

 

but it´s somehow weird again, because in the chor of my project everything is set to zero slope, including the elbows.

 

hmmm, after reopening and closing it´s gone... deleted the "scale to reach" keys and set keys for IKFK squetch for the right arm, had a short moment of popping while moving the slider, but nothing permanent.

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I turned OFF the supports limits/damping in the kinematic constraint on the forearm and the problem goes away.

 

I haven't found anything else, so that may be it. I don't think that setting is necessary with the way the IK works now...so I'll change that in the next update. Thanks, Mark!

 

Here's the updated character. If you run into anything else, yell.

baldy_ready_update.mdl

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I turned OFF the supports limits/damping in the kinematic constraint on the forearm and the problem goes away.

 

I haven't found anything else, so that may be it. I don't think that setting is necessary with the way the IK works now...so I'll change that in the next update. Thanks, Mark!

 

Here's the updated character. If you run into anything else, yell.

 

thanks a lot you 2 lords of the rigs!!! once again you saved the night! :)

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I turned OFF the supports limits/damping in the kinematic constraint on the forearm and the problem goes away.

 

I haven't found anything else, so that may be it. I don't think that setting is necessary with the way the IK works now...so I'll change that in the next update. Thanks, Mark!

 

Here's the updated character. If you run into anything else, yell.

 

thanks a lot you 2 lords of the rigs!!! once again you saved the night! :)

 

That one was Mark. He's my favorite rigger.

 

I checked the legs (which are rigged with the same setup) and I had already set those to "OFF"...I guess I just missed fixing the same thing on the arms. Hopefully, nothing else pops up.

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The kinematic constraints on the forearm bones in the "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls/right_arm/right_arm_FK_IK" and "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls/left_arm/left_arm_FK_IK" needs the "Support Limits/Damping" set to "Off".

 

You could just delete those Poses and drag the ones from the corrected model and re-save or you could go into the Poses and change that setting.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

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Edit

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I also e-mailed a link to you, Sebastian.

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The kinematic constraints on the forearm bones in the "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls/right_arm/right_arm_FK_IK" and "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls/left_arm/left_arm_FK_IK" needs the "Support Limits/Damping" set to "Off".

 

You could just delete those Poses and drag the ones from the corrected model and re-save or you could go into the Poses and change that setting.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

-----------------

Edit

-----------------

 

I also e-mailed a link to you, Sebastian.

 

that does help. thanks :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

In the course of working on the Squetch Rig tutorials, I found out that turning off the "Support Limits/Damping" on the kinematic constraints on the forearms and calves breaks the "arms_IKFK_SQUETCH_biceps_and_forearms_individual" and "legs_IKFK_SQUETCH_thighs_and_calves_individual" Poses (very pronounced in IK). So, I turned those back on, moved the euler limit constraints to the "right_arm_FK_IK", "left_arm_FK_IK", "right_leg_FK_IK_toeIK" and "left_leg_FK_IK_toeIK" Poses, and set the euler limits to be "on" only in FK...it appears to eliminate the problems and I haven't found anything that it breaks.

 

Here is an updated character and Choreography. The rig and Sam are updated here.

mainscene_anim01_C_update_07_23_2013.zip

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