Stride length/repeat issues

[oakchas]

Okay...

 

I've been futzin with this off and on for days... I've looked in the Tech Ref, I've looked in the TAO A:M. I've searched all over the forums and I get different answers. I think it would be beneficial to all newbies to "get" this... so I'm posting it here, hoping that an old tar like me will get an answer... I'll even do a tute on it once I get it figured out.

 

Just as a test animation, I took Thom into the default choreography. I placed him on a figure-eight path to see him from all angles as he completes the walk along the path. I applied the resolute walk action to Thom. I want the finished render to be 3:00 long (that's 90 or 91 frames (another minor source of confusion for me... Is it 90 or 91?)).

 

Thom "speed walks" the path. It seems as though Thom takes about 1000 steps to complete this figure-eight instead of about 20. I don't understand this. The resolute walk takes 1:01 to complete one cycle. The Chor is set for a length of 3:00 the render is set for a length of 3:00.

 

This is what the Tech Ref says about this:

 

Crop Range

Visible: Instance Only. These are the times for the start and end of the action as it will be used in the choreography. It permits cropping off the first or last frames of the action.

 

Chor Range

Visible: Instance Only. These Start and End values represent the range of time that the action is executed in the choreography. They can be used to speed up or slow down the action, or just have it start at a different time.

 

Cycle Length

Visible: Instance Only, Default: 0sec. This property represents the length of time for one cycle in the choreography. If the repeat is just one, then it is just the end minus the start. If there is a repeat, it is also divided by the repeat. It represents an easy way to tell how much the action is being scaled up or down in length.

 

Changing the Chor range changes the chor length as well.... so, I can get him to amble along the path... but it's a 15 second animation not a 3 second animation.

 

Somewhere else, I got a suggestion to turn stride length off and just do repeats... tweaking the number of repeats to get hime to complete the path. that works... but still see slippage and can't seem to get 4.5 repeats only 5 or 6 (Don't know if only whole numbers are allowed).

 

Elsewhere someone suggested setting the ease at 0 on frame 1 and at 100% on the final frame... that didn't do it either... sometimes he steps-skates-steps or else he steps-steps-steps then skates.

 

Thom is doing some very odd things when I get ahold of him. I'd really like him to resolutely "amble" around this figure-eight over 3 seconds.

 

All of this said, I know the answer is right in front of me. I have had him do exactly what I want. I cannot get him to repeat that. So I ain't gettin' it.

 

Your help will be appreciated... and I promise to turn it into a wink tute or a PDF or something else useable once I "get it" with your assistance.

[T-Dogg]

Charlie,

 

I'm no expert, but I tried to repeat the project you described. I do have a few suggestions.

 

First off, 3 seconds is an awfully short amount of time to walk around a figure 8. Watch Thom go around the path without adding the walk cycle and you'll see exactly how fast he needs to be moving to get from beginning to end in 3 seconds. Maybe my figure 8 was larger than yours, but there was just no way he could "amble" around it in 3 seconds.

 

Secondly, the Resolute Walk seems to have a pretty short stride length for our favorite featureless yellow guy. If you study the action, you'll see that Thom never even fully extends his legs. I think you might need a different walk cycle with a greater stride length. That would let him go further with fewer steps.

 

That's just my 2 cents... before taxes even.

 

I don't mean to hijack your thread, Charles, but there is something that has always confused me about walk cycles, as well. I've read that the first and last keyframe should be identical. However, some animation lessons then go on to say that you should set a key at the next-to-last frame and then delete the last one. I don't think this was mentioned in TAoA:M though, so I was wondering if A:M handles things in some way that avoids having 2 identical keyframes in the walk cycle. From my own limited experience, it seems like when I animate a walk cycle and leave the first and last keyframe the same, that I do indeed get a very slight pause when the animation cycle repeats. I've been starting at 0 and ending at 24. Is it best to end at 25, but set a key at 24 and then delete the keyframe on 25? (I use frames elapsed instead of that SMPTE. It's easier for me to understand.)

[oakchas]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, Charles, but there is something that has always confused me about walk cycles, as well. I've read that the first and last keyframe should be identical. However, some animation lessons then go on to say that you should set a key at the next-to-last frame and then delete the last one. I don't think this was mentioned in TAoA:M though, so I was wondering if A:M handles things in some way that avoids having 2 identical keyframes in the walk cycle. From my own limited experience, it seems like when I animate a walk cycle and leave the first and last keyframe the same, that I do indeed get a very slight pause when the animation cycle repeats. I've been starting at 0 and ending at 24. Is it best to end at 25, but set a key at 24 and then delete the keyframe on 25? (I use frames elapsed instead of that SMPTE. It's easier for me to understand.)

 

Tony,

 

I think TAO A:M addresses this only in this way... The walk Cycle is 01:01. So, in order to view it looping, set your render output frame range to 01:00. Your method would do the same thing.. I haven't seen the pause in a cycle unless looping the full 01:01.

 

I won't have any more time to futz with this until Monday... Then we'll see what I get...

 

I get your point about the length of the path for for him to "amble," but he really doesn't have to speed walk around it... I am looking at creating my own cycle for him but at this point I'm just trying to get a feel for the character (a modified Thom) and see what he looks like from all angles with different decaling or projection maps, etc.

[robcat2075]

putting tom on a path:

 

tomonpathmp4.mov

[oakchas]

Robert,

 

I donlt know if your mov is a tute or not... (as I can't view mov files here at work and I'll be working 12 hr days thru Sunday...)

If not a tute, the project file would be useful.

[robcat2075]

Robert,

 

I donlt know if your mov is a tute or not... (as I can't view mov files here at work and I'll be working 12 hr days thru Sunday...)

If not a tute, the project file would be useful.

 

It's really just to show it can be done and how to do it.

 

but here's the V13 prj. You'll need to point it to Thom and the walk.

 

tomonpath.zip

[T-Dogg]

Thanks for answering my question Charles! I figured something had to be done to avoid having two identical keyframes in the walk cycle.

 

I guess I was on the right track when I tried to answer your question earlier, since robcat pretty much says the same thing in his video... more time or bigger steps. Of course, he explains it a lot better than I did!

 

The only other options I can think of are to scale Thom up or scale the path down.

 

I tried using ease, but like you, I got pretty messed up results. I prefer to leave my stride length turned on for walk cycles anyway.

[oakchas]

Robert,

 

Thanks for the tutorial... I was able to sneak a peek at it at home... with the speakers muted... so I'll give it a listen on Monday.

 

Tony,

 

I agree with leaving stride length on... Glad I could help clear something up.... just not my addled head!

[Pokintail]

Okay...

 

I've been futzin with this off and on for days... I've looked in the Tech Ref, I've looked in the TAO A:M. I've searched all over the forums and I get different answers. I think it would be beneficial to all newbies to "get" this... so I'm posting it here, hoping that an old tar like me will get an answer... I'll even do a tute on it once I get it figured out.

 

Just as a test animation, I took Thom into the default choreography. I placed him on a figure-eight path to see him from all angles as he completes the walk along the path. I applied the resolute walk action to Thom. I want the finished render to be 3:00 long (that's 90 or 91 frames (another minor source of confusion for me... Is it 90 or 91?)).

 

Thom "speed walks" the path. It seems as though Thom takes about 1000 steps to complete this figure-eight instead of about 20. I don't understand this. The resolute walk takes 1:01 to complete one cycle. The Chor is set for a length of 3:00 the render is set for a length of 3:00.

 

This is what the Tech Ref says about this:

 

Crop Range

Visible: Instance Only. These are the times for the start and end of the action as it will be used in the choreography. It permits cropping off the first or last frames of the action.

 

Chor Range

Visible: Instance Only. These Start and End values represent the range of time that the action is executed in the choreography. They can be used to speed up or slow down the action, or just have it start at a different time.

 

Cycle Length

Visible: Instance Only, Default: 0sec. This property represents the length of time for one cycle in the choreography. If the repeat is just one, then it is just the end minus the start. If there is a repeat, it is also divided by the repeat. It represents an easy way to tell how much the action is being scaled up or down in length.

 

Changing the Chor range changes the chor length as well.... so, I can get him to amble along the path... but it's a 15 second animation not a 3 second animation.

 

Somewhere else, I got a suggestion to turn stride length off and just do repeats... tweaking the number of repeats to get hime to complete the path. that works... but still see slippage and can't seem to get 4.5 repeats only 5 or 6 (Don't know if only whole numbers are allowed).

 

Elsewhere someone suggested setting the ease at 0 on frame 1 and at 100% on the final frame... that didn't do it either... sometimes he steps-skates-steps or else he steps-steps-steps then skates.

 

Thom is doing some very odd things when I get ahold of him. I'd really like him to resolutely "amble" around this figure-eight over 3 seconds.

 

All of this said, I know the answer is right in front of me. I have had him do exactly what I want. I cannot get him to repeat that. So I ain't gettin' it.

 

Your help will be appreciated... and I promise to turn it into a wink tute or a PDF or something else useable once I "get it" with your assistance.

 

I know the problem exactly, because I've had it too. This is what you need to do: have a shorter path. The original action is 1:10 seconds, but when applied in a choreography it will speed up or slow down depending on the length of the path. If you have a character walk a long path in a short amount of time, the only way it can accomplish the task within a set stride length is to take faster steps. Lengthen the animation, and shorten the path, and your problem should disappear.

[oakchas]

I know the problem exactly, because I've had it too. This is what you need to do: have a shorter path. The original action is 1:10 seconds, but when applied in a choreography it will speed up or slow down depending on the length of the path. If you have a character walk a long path in a short amount of time, the only way it can accomplish the task within a set stride length is to take faster steps. Lengthen the animation, and shorten the path, and your problem should disappear.

 

You know... for some reason, this statement alone out of all the above tips and pointers, it the one that made me think.

 

Thinking is important.

 

You (and everyone else who pointed this out, in different ways) are correct. While I want thom to walk in the figure eight in 3 seconds... he, like we mortals, cannot do it. I tried. It has to be a small figure eight for me to hope to do it in the alloted three seconds.. and it is difficult to do (smoothly).

 

Doh!

 

The aha moment.

 

The only way that I can make him "amble" as I wish is for the figure eight to be a long enough path that at regular speed, Thom would more than complete it he did it at his usual pace cycle of 1:01..

 

So, if his regular pace cycle has him completing the fig eight before the end of the render... I can slow him down so that he just finishes at the end of the render.... but the reverse is not possible with any realism... Why didn't I "Get" this, sooner?

 

Sheesh!

[T-Dogg]

Now you've got it Charles!!!

 

If memory serves me, in Physics class they taught us that Speed = Distance/Time. So to change the speed, you've gotta either change the distance or the time.