A Proposed Project

[Wizaerd]

ddustin and I are collaborating on a project, not so much working together, but helping each other out with tips and techiques, and thought we'd post a message here to get some feedback (suggestions , tips, and/or techniques) as how to proceed.

 

The animation in question would be a short, not really a movie per sae, more of a commercial.

 

The camera opens up onto a small building (very small, appears to be big enough only for a single person to stand inside). On one side of the building is a window with a conveyor belt running out from it, to the back of a delivery truck. packages would be sliding along the conveyor into the back of the truck.

 

A character (I'm thinking the Homer Simpson aka The Fat Guy) walks in the door of the building. Inside the building is a huge warehouse. Because it's meant to be a cartoon, the dimensions of the inside are greatly exaggerated. There'll be conveyor systems all around the warehouse, with packages sliding along in various stages of readiness.

 

Along the conveyor will be stations where robotic arms will be working with the packages. packing them, closing them, sealing them, etc...

 

Along they'll slide to the end of the conveyor where they'll be weighed, a shipping label will print out, and be applied to the package, and it'll slide out the window.

 

The parts I (we) need assistance with is the modeling of the delivery truck for outside, and a method to get a steady stream of packages sliding along the conveyor.

 

I don't want to use anyone else models, (other than the FatGuy) but am looking more for assistance in the form of suggestions and tips on how to model the delivery truck, and how to get the multiple packages moving along the conveyor.

 

I have the outside of the warehouse modeled, and in a sperate set (choreography) the inside of the warehouse. I also have in place the conveyor system (nothing fancy, I'm not looking for photorealisticness) as well as various packages modeled and textured (again, nothing fancy). I have a model of the robotic arms (rigged for animation), but haven't placed them yet.

 

Still to be modeled are some basic shelves for the warehouse (easy enough), and a computer station where the package will be weighted and a label printed.

 

Again, any and all suggestions and tips on the remaining modeling would be greatly appreciated as well as ideas on how to keep packages moving along the conveyor...

[ddustin]

Wizaerd and I decided it would be good to do this in the WIP section so as to put a tutorial in place.

 

The first thing I can help with is the moving of boxes through the warehouse.

 

The complicating this is I see Wiz want to have them close then continue moving into trucks.

1. Are these boxes moving in a straight line into the trucks?

2. Do they start out flat then get set up by a Box Erector (Wiz will know what this means)?

3. Do the boxes need to be individual boxes or can they be all in the model?

 

The best way to move objects that are the same (they are the same right?) is to make movement in the chor, then export that movement as an action. That way you can bring it back into the chor and set it to repeat.

 

If the boxes are in a straight line, you move them all exactly the same distance so box b is now occupying the same location box A was. When you see it work you will go duh....

 

We can set up an online meeting so I can quickly show you what I mean. The online SW only works for PC's and mac's running windows. There is a number everyone can call into to talk. There can be 10 people.

Let me know if you want to do this. I'll set up a quick chor with boxes.

 

David

[Wizaerd]

ddustin, only the boxes in the opening shot (outside the small building) will show boxes moving into the truck. It's a short enough path, that I've already figured out that'll work (with Rodney's help)...

 

The boxes inside the warehouse are trickier because there needs to be a steady stream moving at all times in the warehouse, regardless of my camera shot or angle.

 

They'll start already built, strictly a box with it's flaps opened. They'll move along the path (conveyor) for a short bit, stop, a robotic arm will pull a lever and a chute will drop items (basic primitives) into the open box. Then it'll slide down a bit, and stop while robotic arms close the flaps (most likely two set of arms and two stops to close each sides flaps). Slide along, stop while arms seal (tape) the box shut. Slide along, stop on a scale, be weighed, slide along, stop for the label application, then continue out the window. The truck or outside conveyor will not be seen from the inside shots...

 

oh, and I'm not available for any online meeting or conf call, it being my birthday weekend, and have plans for most of the weekend...

 

 

I forgot to mention the conveyor is not in a straight line... here's a top down shot of the warehouse with the conveyor system

[ddustin]

ddustin, only the boxes in the opening shot (outside the small building) will show boxes moving into the truck. It's a short enough path, that I've already figured out that'll work (with Rodney's help)...

 

The boxes inside the warehouse are trickier because there needs to be a steady stream moving at all times in the warehouse, regardless of my camera shot or angle.

 

They'll start already built, strictly a box with it's flaps opened. They'll move along the path (conveyor) for a short bit, stop, a robotic arm will pull a lever and a chute will drop items (basic primitives) into the open box. Then it'll slide down a bit, and stop while robotic arms close the flaps (most likely two set of arms and two stops to close each sides flaps). Slide along, stop while arms seal (tape) the box shut. Slide along, stop on a scale, be weighed, slide along, stop for the label application, then continue out the window. The truck or outside conveyor will not be seen from the inside shots...

 

oh, and I'm not available for any online meeting or conf call, it being my birthday weekend, and have plans for most of the weekend...

 

 

I forgot to mention the conveyor is not in a straight line... here's a top down shot of the warehouse with the conveyor system

 

Wiz,

Happy Birthday!

 

Paths are OK with a big but..... you need to control the ease of each object along the path. I have not played with the multiple objects along a path to see if there is some group parameter.

 

Online meetings are really hit and miss with me. I offer them when I have the time..

 

Closing boxes would typically be done by a closing/taping machine, and a robot would not pull a lever (unless you want it for the toon nature of your animation). You would use robots to offload boxes to a pallet.

 

I think the best way to show your boxes moving is to use an action setup to repeat 50 or so times.

The illusion is that the boxes are moving, but in reality, they only move once. The action makes them repeat. The problem with this approach is you still have a lot of boxes to move.

 

Using this approach you would only close the box once (it would be repeated in the action). After the box is closed, it would be a different model (flaps already closed).

If you had 50 boxes you would need 50 bones. You could use muscle mode to move them as well (I think).

 

I need to think a little more on this.

 

David

[zandoriastudios]

I would suggest drawing some concept art for the man,truck,boxes,conveyors,building to help you keep an overall style together. Do this BEFORE you start all of tthe modeling...

[Wizaerd]

Wiz,

Happy Birthday!

 

Thanx... I'll be heading out here in a short bit, my girlfrind and I are spending the weekend at some fancy schmancy resort...

 

Paths are OK with a big but..... you need to control the ease of each object along the path. I have not played with the multiple objects along a path to see if there is some group parameter.

 

This is how I'm doing the outside boxes, since the conveyor path is very very short, and there's no stopping points along the way.

 

Closing boxes would typically be done by a closing/taping machine, and a robot would not pull a lever (unless you want it for the toon nature of your animation). You would use robots to offload boxes to a pallet.

 

Yeah, but in keeping with the exaggerated toon theme of the animation, the arms will close the flaps. There'll be no lever for that, just for the initial packing of the box. An arm'll pull a lever, a chute will lower, and a bunch of sphere, squares, and cones (all brightly colored) will drop into the box. Then further along, the arms will close the flaps.

 

I think the best way to show your boxes moving is to use an action setup to repeat 50 or so times.

The illusion is that the boxes are moving, but in reality, they only move once. The action makes them repeat. The problem with this approach is you still have a lot of boxes to move.

 

Yeah, that's the problem I keep seeing as well. Doing all this to a single box would be simple enough (ok, not simple, but simpler...) But I need boxes moving along the conveyor all the time. However, the thing to keep in mind is that besides the packing, the closing of the flaps, the sealing, the weighing & labeling, all these boxes are in the background. The focus of the camera will be on the character throughout most of these shots.

 

 

Joe

 

I would suggest drawing some concept art for the man,truck,boxes,conveyors,building to help you keep an overall style together. Do this BEFORE you start all of tthe modeling...

 

Thanx, most of the modeling is already done. (except for the delivery truck, and computer station and even that's mostly done...) Since it's a single person project, the overall style of the models are fitting together. I'm not going for realisticness, it's mostly the "story" I'm going after...

 

While it doesn't seem from my initial post, there's a story at all, but in reality, there is. Those in my industry and my office will completely understand it... It's strictly a personal project, so I'm not necessarily creating it so that anybody and everybody would "get it", although seen in it's entirety when it's done, most people would "get it"...

[ddustin]

[attachmentid=19803]

 

Here is a quick example of what I mean by using actions to make it look like the boxes move non-stop.

You can set the number of repeats to as many as you want, plus set the duration of the action.

Make sure to set both actions the same to maintain the illusion.

David

boxes_8_19_06a.zip

[MattWBradbury]

Here's the kind of layout I would do for the outside. Just a quick sketch

 

[attachmentid=19804]

 

My true mastry of line shows out in this image

 

Make sure to give the truck a little bit of a shake like Mr. Incredible's put put car from the movie The Incredibles.

[Wizaerd]

Here's the kind of layout I would do for the outside. Just a quick sketch

 

[attachmentid=19804]

 

My true mastry of line shows out in this image

 

Make sure to give the truck a little bit of a shake like Mr. Incredible's put put car from the movie The Incredibles.

 

I still have the truck to do, as well as additional texturing, lighting and filling the background with hills, etc... But your sketch pretty much sums up what I want for the opening outside shot...

[MattWBradbury]

I'd suggest getting a more rotated shot so you can see the window where the packages are coming out.

[Wizaerd]

I'd suggest getting a more rotated shot so you can see the window where the packages are coming out.

 

That image was by no means "the shot", since it'll be animated... Homer'll walk in from the right side, around the truck (which'll show the packages coming out of the window along the small conveyor...)

[ddustin]

Wiz,

I hope you had a great birthday!

 

Have you looked at the example I posted?

 

I think the box folding step should only be 1 box, then use an action to repeat it, that way you can have it loop as long as you need it too. Same with the dropping of product into the box (going to use the newton plug-in?).

 

Haven't had time to do the rotoscopes.

David

[Wizaerd]

Wiz,

I hope you had a great birthday!

 

I did... thanx...

 

Have you looked at the example I posted?

 

I did... Made perfect sense...

 

I think the box folding step should only be 1 box, then use an action to repeat it, that way you can have it loop as long as you need it too. Same with the dropping of product into the box (going to use the newton plug-in?).

 

One of my biggest headaches was trying to figure out how to keep all this moving in synch in the background. I think instead of having these things moving in the background in a steady cycle, I'm going to plan my shots more carefully, and only include the boxes as needed...

 

Basically, animate everything (using a single box for the "close up" shots), including my character and camera movements, then come back in after the fact and place the moving boxes. I'll probably save on render times as well as complexity of the animations themselves as well.

 

Well, at least this is what I'm hoping I'll be able to accomplish...

 

I've not ever used the Newton plugin, but was going to at least take a look at it, as well as try out some basic stuff with it...

 

The good thing is I'm not on any kind of deadline, so I'm taking my time will all this... As well as working on a few other things when I get tired of looking at the same thing all the time...

[ddustin]

Wiz,

The newton plugin is a blast to play with (patience required).

 

As far as keeping it all moving....

 

If each group of boxes is only moving the distance of one box including the space, you can make it loop real easy.

The folding box is the first one in it's line of boxes (all the others are open and stay open).

When it goes under the folding mechanisum, it gets closed then moves ahead one position.

The line of boxes that are after the folding mechanisum are all closed already, they advance by one as well.

 

Remember, it's not what you see, it's what you think you see!!

 

It would involve making an action in the chor (you automatically make a choreography action when you move something in the chor), You then export that action, import it back in and apply it to the same model you created it with, that way you can set the number of repeats (you first need to delete any moves you made before adding the action). It sounds a little convoluted but it works well.

 

David

[MattWBradbury]

I hope the shot doesn't call for motion blur. Doing the repeat animation would leave a ghostly line across the conveyor belt every time a new package came out of the window. I also suggest not having the bend in the outside conveyor belt. A straight belt would make the scene look more cartoonish and it will allow you to reset the box movement position ealier so you can make it look like boxes are coming out much faster.

[ddustin]

Wiz,

How are you coming on this?

 

David

[Wizaerd]

Wiz,

How are you coming on this?

 

David

 

Been handed a fairly big project at work, so have less time for A:M, plus I'm working on something else in A:M as well... Fortunately, I'm not under any deadline since it's just something I'm putting together for my own eddification...

 

Are you still planning on rendering out that UPS truck as a rotoscope? That way I have something to base my own on without using someone elses model... Was considering a 3DS object, especially since it won't need to animate, but thought I'd at least try modeling it...

[ddustin]

Wiz,

How are you coming on this?

 

David

 

Been handed a fairly big project at work, so have less time for A:M, plus I'm working on something else in A:M as well... Fortunately, I'm not under any deadline since it's just something I'm putting together for my own eddification...

 

Are you still planning on rendering out that UPS truck as a rotoscope? That way I have something to base my own on without using someone elses model... Was considering a 3DS object, especially since it won't need to animate, but thought I'd at least try modeling it...

 

If you aren't going to animate it, a prop is OK, except it needs to have the doors open.

 

Guess I forgot about the roto, sorry. Will try to do it today sometime.

 

David

[Wizaerd]

If you aren't going to animate it, a prop is OK, except it needs to have the doors open.

 

Guess I forgot about the roto, sorry. Will try to do it today sometime.

 

David

 

I can always modify the 3DS object itself in another modeling app, as well to eliminate the doors or make them appear open... Or at the very least use creative camera angles to hide the doors, and model new ones in A:M directly... Several different approaches...