triath5147
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Posts posted by triath5147
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The system I use to get models and animations from AM to 3DGS is quite simple actually. I create the content in AM, than export to Direct X with Chris's Direct X exporter from Obsideon Games, than I can import X files into 3DGS's MED ( model editor, and save in their format for use in the games. I either texture the models in AM or I use Ultimate unwrap, depending on what will be easier for that certain model. Things are starting to wrap up on it now. Only one more week till the demo is released, and in two weeks, we may be negotiating with Walmart depending on how the game is received.
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Just to let ya all know. I have been working with some friends of mine to make a game with 3D Game Studio. All models, and animation were created with AM, as well as cutscenes and props and other modeling content.
You can see a few screen shots here:
http://www.conitecserver.com/ubbthreads/sh...&fpart=all&vc=1
The free demo version barring any unknown bugs, will be released in about 2 weeks.
The game has three types of game play, 3rd person run and jump/fighting, a puzzle mode where you collect keys, and jump on platforms, and a wonder sphere mode, which is like a physics ball, you control on ramps, with powerups, and speed ups and what ever. The game has not yet been rated, but is intended for even young audiences. Hope you try the demo when it is public, I will post a link for the demo when it is uploaded.
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Hey everybody, I am agreeing with everything Rodney has already said, and am just adding my 2 cents.
I approached Rodney for help with this, in the hopes that we could make documentation for A:M that doesn't quite exist. I would like to make these docs, very visually intensive. I don't know about you, but artists act emotionally, and learn more visually, than just reading some boring text, with no examples.
Let's face it, reading some of those Reference pages is like reading the manual that comes with your appliances. The information is all there, but it fails to keep your attention.
I also know that most people learn by doing,... not reading and hopefully the series we create will inspire people to start building from their imaginations with the confidence that only comes from experience, and satisfaction of doing it yourself.
Theres nothing more gratifying than starting with nothing and watching your work come to life, and we're going to give you the nudge you need to make that a reality.
I plan on making the series, based on what I would have liked to have seen when I was just starting out with A:M. Which means alot of detail, alot of pictures, and above all, alot of examples of different settings and what they actually do for you, so it will take some of the guess work outta this magic software, and allow you to really tap into it's power, which eludes many of us.
Lets see some more topics that are really buggin you guys.
We plan on basing the series on the PWS, and going from start to finish, to try and cover everything.
As the project matures hopefully we can get support from Martin, and possibly even develope these tutorial sets on new features before the CD comes out. That way you have a clear doc. on the feature and what it can actually do to help you.
OK thats all for now.
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This actually brings up a feature request I've had for a long time, but has always slipped my mind, and I never asked for. But finding back facing polies, especially in hands and fingers and where you have alot of small patches can be frustrating.
I wonder if the guys and /or gals at HASH could instead of making little yellow lines. ( which if it is a shallow cylinder, like the tip of a goat horn or something, the yellow lines, even though they are backfacing, stick out the other side of the model, and can be deceiving). Anyway instead of just yellow lines, maybe make it so all the normals, while in that mode ( show normals) will be yellow patches, that way it is easy to see if they are back facing or not.
Just my two cents.
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There are actually a slew of game engines out there, that are capable of doing what you want. I am currently working on a game for Romac Studios in Israel, that is using the 3D Game Studio A6 system. It has it's limitations, but if you know very little about game programming, this is the system I suggest. It's commercial version is only $200.00 US and is very complete with a C-script editor, a World editor, and a model editor. The community is very helpful, and the possibilities with it are endless. Don't be afraid of programming with C-Script because it is very easy. I have absolutely no programming knowledge, In fact I could crash a "hello world" tutorial, but I can program in C-Script pretty well, and I've only really tried learning it for about a month now. With the Direct X exporter from Obsideon Games, you can export all models, skins, and animations right out of AM and import them into the model editor to save in 3DGS's model format. It is very easy to learn, it is very easy to use, and it is continuously updated to keep up with proffesional game engine specs.
If you are looking for a free 3d engine package, you can also try Reality Factory, which uses a modified Genesis engine, or Doom dungeon crawler engine. With reality factory you can also make isometric games, but unless you can program in C++ and hack the main files, you will not beable to customize your game much, and will be limited to what is hard coded in the engine. It is still a very nice package, and you could knock out a game with no programming at all, but it will not be very original as far as enemy AI or the such, but worth looking into. As far as AM it's the same, with the genesis exporter, you can export skins, models, and animations directly into genesis Actor format for use in the engine.
Last recommendation is darkbasic engine. It has a slightly higher learning curve than the other two, and you will either need a programmer, or need to know programming yourself. It uses a form of DOS style programming which is easier than C++ but it is still hard to learn. AM with the obsideon games exporter, will export models, skins and animation directly to darkbasic, as it is a direct x format game.
In conclusion and not that I am in any way getting paid to advertise or spread the word, on any software, 3D Game Studio is the latest engine I've been involved with, and although it has it's set backs, as far as quality for the price, and it's ability to be customized to fit your needs, it is the best program for the buck. It's ease of use, and dependability are far above the other indie game systems out there. Reality Factory is also very stable, but like I said, you are kinda stuck as far as what you change about it.
My deadline to finish my work for Romac Studios is end of december at which time a publisher will be contracting it. I am also making models for a personal project, It is a kids learning game, for kindergarten and 1st grade children.
I am not sure that I could contribute to your game consistently, since I have other obligations, but If you have any questions I can help you out to get you started.
By the way I've been using the direct X exporter for AM for some time now, Chris Roy is amazing with his customer support. Just recently I ran into a bone translation problem in the export, I sent him the model, and he had his exporter updated in 4 days...4DAYS!!! absolutely amazing. I just had to plug that, cause I am very impressed by that and think everyone should by his exporter. Maybe Hash can hire him as the exporter guy!
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You could also get rid of that center spline it really serves no purpose, and from your first pic, it looks like the reason for the creasing.
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If the model was just a mess of triangles, than the problem is the file format, when it was exported had mipmaps. You want to avoid this at all costs, and start from scratch and export the model or get an exported model that does not have mip maps for the skin.
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Just a suggestion but when I import from other miserable programs, I usually go through the model and get rid of all the triangles making them 4 point patches, by breaking points and deleting splines. It takes about an hour on 800 to 1000 poly models, but it animates smoother, is easier to manage, and looks better. and once you export back out of AM it will be peaked and smoothed where it is supposed to be, so it holds up against the original look of the model.
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nice work, but for being a racing system, that set up seems archaic. There are much more advanced fue injection systems on the market don't you think? That looks like a set up from an old buick deisel. Or something you'd see on an old Mack. hmm.. off topic, yeh the camera is very fluid, and keep the background simple, good work.
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This is alittle late, cause I only saw this topic now, but on April 24 2020 I will be celebrating, my birthday. ANd hopefully retirement.
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You already tried the model import option right? right click in the window, select import mdl. import your wing model and all decals, constraints and everything should be there. This is all done in the modeling window. And worked last time I checked.
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an excellent tutorial for beginners. Keep up the good work.
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the answer to number one is , Yes. as far as a variable of an expression, I don't know, I never tried that. But I don't see why not.
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really.... post this stuff on the max forum. If you are using AM there are a few work arounds. If your using Max,.. well,... thats what you get for using inferior programs.
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hey rodney, do I count? I sure could use a new version. Did I mention your the greatest moderator ever?
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I have never had success with any IK or null, or targets or anything fancy with the direct x exporter. ALthough they may state that it will support some of these. In my experience it does not. In all actuality, I belive the help file even tells you to stay away from these types of rigs ( although that may be an old version I'm not sure). Anyway... When using the direct x exporter, I always start with the pelvis, and just start attaching bones from there. no targets, no constraints, just a basic skeleton system. For an example look at the half life skeleton, for how they set theirs up. Than when exported you will have no problems. I'm not sure what the X files will be used in, but also make sure the model, and skeleton are properly positioned on the axis, For a game systems, the pelvis bone, must be centered on the xyz axis, and others the actor must be standing on ( there for the feet are centered on ) the xyz axis. It depends on the gravity system used. Any questions you can email me, or post here.
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yeh, the whales are my favorite out of his pics. very serene.
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Yes, BillG it is possible, but it is very time consuming, and I don't recommend it at present time, unless you have no other way. I sometimes have to animate for other people or companies, who use max for their modeling. I take the max file, import it into milkshape, than save as 3ds, or obj, import into AM. the splines will be wrong, the character will be peaked wierd, and most of the time, the texture map is ruined. not always, but most of the time. Go back, and vertex by vertex fix the model. Add your skeleton in AM, than animate. Export to direct x format, into ultimate unwrap. Reskin the model, from ultimate unwrap, you can go back to max, or to genesis actor, or GS A6 mdl, or saty in DX format for DB, Torque etc..
If you are not doing the work for someone else, and you are incharge of the modeling and animation, and everything. than I suggest you do it all in AM, and save yourself the headache of all the other steps. Just remember when modeling in AM to check your show normals, so you get them all facing out, or the model will have holes, when rendered by the engine, and also on it's lowest setting, each Hash Patch is equal to 2 polies. Hve fun, good luck, until we can find someone to help with plugins, you just gotta grin and bear it.
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Don't forget in game engines, most of what you see is pre calculated and pre-rendered. Unless you've tried compiling a map in the past, you may not realise that for a properly constructed, map it has to render for about 15 hours to 2 days, with full vis. and other finish lighting effects and shadows, before you can do a fly through.
So is it really any faster than what AM does now? No. Is it any better than what AM has now ? No.
Again just look at the screens from Unreal, at the top of the page they entice you, by showing you the high poly model close up in one of the cut scenes, it is not until you scroll down to almost the bottom of the page that you see the normal mapped character IN GAME, and the results are anything but stunning.
Is it a leap ahead for game engines? yes. Is it a leap ahead for rendering as a whole? no. You can get much better light and shadow effects with what AM uses now, than u can with normal maps.
it's just a glorified bump map, that unreal has optomised to run with their display drivers. The proof is right in front of you. Look at the cut scene model most likely rendered in MAX, and look at the in game model, rendered by Unreal with a normal map.
Oh and to use unreal's normal maps, that they have copyrighted and hard coded into their engine, can only be obtained with an unreal license, which is several hundred thousand dollars last I checked.
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I made it here tonight....
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great idea, oh and just to be clear, I will be donating $100.00 to which ever plugin is finally agreed on, not just for a max plugin. Max was just an example I was using, but any plugin if it shows it can further the work of AM is well worth it. SO keep the comments coming. By the way I have listed on two forums, and contacted one company by email this morning, trying to find a bite. The company I contacted is the maker of Ultimate Unwrap3d, a good cross platform program that I use to do alot of importing and exporting into different formats, and also use to make UV maps for game characters. Maybe with alittle backing from the community, they will make a plugin for their software, to expand their buisness, which will cost us nothing.
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Well, although I have somewhat,become the main force in this thread, ( probably do to my big mouth), it seems after all of this, we are finally seeing eye to eye. I beleive the thread was started by Mr. McRip, so McRip and others, what is a format that you beleive would give us access to more of the market? I went to the FBX site and I don't beleive that is an option, although I could be wrong. It does not seem as versitile as you made it out to be.
I can tell you that out of the many game engines and other art related software, that max is the most supported format out there. From Max, you can create for genesis, Reality Factory, Gamestudio, dark Basic, Torque and many other indie game software. Of course it would be ideal, to go to each and every company and push for them to make plugins to adapt AM to their software. ALthough that is not feasable. Since my one voice is not going to make any company spend time and effort creating a plugin for one person, which means WE have to initiate this effort to get AM into the mainstream. In alot of the forums I speak in, most people have never even heard of AM, in comparison, and just as an example ( before someone here starts to difibulate) Max to AM is like Microsoft to Mac. There are millions more people using windows based Pc's both at work and at home than there are people using Mac. If you say Apple computer, to some people they remember the old first computers that you played pong on, like the old comadore 64, they don't associate apple with any thing modern or usable. Though those of you using Mac's presently know that it is a good stable system, that can do anything that a windows PC can do! sometimes better! SO if you think making plugins to expand the work force using AM is not making it main stream, than maybe I don't know what the word main stream means. Maybe I'm not articulate enough to get my point across in words. ( although I guess if I was, I would be a writer, not an artist, I am used to expressing myself with pictures). Ok I got side tracked again. Arthur I will email you for a copy of your work, so I have something to present to perspective programmers to learn from. I will go to all of the forums I belong to, and start trying to raise the 10+ thousand dollars. Of course, If there are any programmers here that would be willing to do this venture, once I have made the money available, don't hesitate to speak up, as this is a paying job, I would like to keep it in the AM family. So lets start seeing some posts here about file formats that you most widely use, also after your post, please state a monatary amount, if any, you would be willing to donate to this cause. That being said I will start by saying that I beleive the most important one for me would be a max format importer/exporter. For the reasons I stated above. Alot of my contacts use this software, which causes me alot of work to reformat and back again ( not that I'm complaining, because I would gladly use a hundred programs to get the job done, so long as I never have max on my machine again).
In my current financial standing, I will donate $100.00 towards the needed funds.
As more people are willing to spend money, We will open a paypal account to store the money in, so that it can be sent to whom ever is doing the work. If you'd like we can designate a person we all agree on, to have control of the account.
Any other ideas would be appreciated.
Oh and Martin, thanx for letting me express myself here, Although some disagree with me, I beleive the more tools available to the AM comunity, the more the market will start to look away from rediculously high priced low quality commercially driven programs( like max) and start to steer in the direction of high quality artist driven programs( like AM).
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It seems people want to pick and choose my quotes as they see fit to bash what i'm saying. Thats fine, because I am bold. All I am saying is. I am a dedicated, user of this software, and I do whatever it takes to use it. Arthur Waselesk I have not heard from in some time. When I created some characters for the Genesis game engine, I contacted Arthur regarding plugins, because he seemed very skilled at it. The last I heard, he made a beta export from AM to Genesis actor format which he emailed to me. Over all, the mesh was almost perfect. As far as games go, I model a high poly character for cut scenes and such, and the game actor is a lower poly version, that does not use 5 point patches. I take any 5 point patches and change them to 3 , 3 point patches which seems to work well, not to mention once you export each AM patch, becomes 2 polies which doubles the number of polies in your model. Which 5-6 years ago was very crucial, because Doom style dungeon crawlers, and old Video cards would cough and hack if your models were over 1000 polies. Which means the AM model had to be 500 polies or less.Anyhow, where was I... oh yeh, and since the characters in games are smaller, and always moving, there are no real noticeable creases, although there are some. Arthur sent me his beta version for 10.5 by Email when he was trying to fix the bone placement problems, and animation cyclic problems, because on cycling animations like walk, run,etc. there was a slight glitch, because the first and last frames were playing twice, same with noncyclic, like jump or fall, which would completely cycle through to the beginning, when it was supposed to stop at hold at the last frame. The bone placement was a problem, not because the animation would screw up, but because the shell used bone vectors to attach models to models. SO if you wanted to have the character pick up a weapon, the sword bone, would attach to the hand bone etc. although all the bones were stuck at 0,0,0, for some reason that had to do with AM's model bone. I would continue emailing him with what I was finding, and eventually he stopped answering, he was no longer on the forum, and that was the end. So before you go snapping at me, and taking me out of context I repeat, I appreciate what was done, but the end result is never achieved, development stops, there are no updates, and I, as well as others are left with an unfinished, non working product.
Are there work arounds? sure there are. As stated in my last post, I have used up to 4 programs already to make it work. As far as I'm concerned I will continue to do this, if need be, because I don't like the way those poly based programs work. I have so much more freedom and functionality with AM, As far as modeling faster with poly based programs, I think thats untrue. I think it is all in what you practice. I can create quality models and animations in less time with AM than I can in Max, Milkshape, or any other apps, I've tried. No one wants another poly based tool. AM is the best thing I've found out there.
Actually, it is only when I need to import models for other people when I have my problems. If the modeling and animating is done in AM from the beginning, I have little trouble. I use the direct x exporter from obsideon games, and from direct x format I can go pretty much anywhere. So far Obsideon Games has one of the most complete export plugins I have used. But should it stop there?
Why not create another?
On every game forum I belong to I encourage people to get Animation Master at every post I find that asks, What is a good modeling app. I do this because, I have used the rest, and I belive this is the best. SO what happens, happens...I will not change my view of the software, weather someone wants to create plugins or not. It is just that it is to all of our benefit in the long run.
Also Yves, if you took my comments as wrong or unjust, I apologize, I thought it was a comment, saying you knew your stuff. As far as SDK's go for other apps. Although I saw the post on Dairy3d or whatever it was called. Most indie game software, have free sdk's with public licenses. I always here the same thing. I hear people say I'll pay, and I hear programmers say, no you won't.People advertise that they will pay, to entice programmers to do it. Maybe instead of shooting it down. Name a price, if it is money that you want. If the people asking can't afford it, than they will say no. But at least make the effort.
I think this subject has strayed slightly in some of the responses. No one wants AM to change anything about it's software, we just want some plugins to use, to expand AM's tentacles a bit.
OK I'm getting carpal tunnnel, I wrote too much again..
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So how do we locate a programming guru? Poisant doesn't seem to be biting at the chance, and from what I read, he seems to be one of the few people here that :
1) has the knowledge of animation master features and abilities.
2) has some kind of programming ability.
Who else do we have?
ACTION BIRD
in Game Development
Posted
The humanoid characters are around 1200 polies, or approx. 600 AM patches. When you create your content in AM just keep in mind that the Hash patch, equals 2 triangles. SO whatever you make ur character in AM, it will be twice as many polygons once exported. If you go to Obsideon Games web site,
http://www.obsidiangames.com/
, you can get the pricing and features. There may be other direct X plugins, but this one is the most complete, the most up to date, and Chris has amazing customer service, and will work with you to resolve problems.
Once in X format, you can take your AM creations to a bunch of different game engines, like Game Studio, Dark Basic, Torque, Deux Ex, and a few others that escape me.
To try it, you can download a trial version of the exporter, without animations.