[Tin owl W.I.P]

Hi all,

 

Here's a look at the reproportioned Tin Owl, modeled by Stian, reproportioned by Bob and cleaned up by myself.

 

He's so cute, I want a real one of these!

 

Jim

[Rabbit]

Matt,

 

The head is perfect now, thanks!

 

It looks like you fixed the feet. Attched is a sketch of what I tried to explain.

 

As far as I know, without seeing the new animatic, the rabbit acts and moves like a rabbit and should only be thought of as a rabbit during most of it's time on screen. I don't want it to look like a main character or human-like in it's appearance. So I was thinking the legs could look more rabbit like instead of Bugs Bunny-like.

 

But leave it as it is, unless Bob has any comments about it, because I may be wrong about this.

 

Thanks for doing such a great job! He's a fun character

 

Jim

[Mrs Yoop WIP]

I think the collar is part of the cape.

 

I think.

 

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

Here's a version with a smaller jaw and chin.

 

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

I really wanted you and Mark to come up with something for the shoulder joint. A simple ball joint going into the shoulder area is fine with me, as Mark posted above. We will have to rig it so the shoulder part of the chest can flex so he can shrug.

 

If that's what we end up doing, I want the shoulder joints high enough to avoid the droopy shoulder look.

 

Jim

 

Just comparing the chin in Bob's drawings and the 3D chin, they don't seem to be the same thing.

 

The 3D chin is almost overwhelming the face.

 

?

 

 

Now that you mention it, I see it, too.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

Thanks!

 

Yes, it is attached. The way Bob drew the poses has it that way, and I think it will help avoid a lot of strangeness when the mouth opens wide, if the lips distort with the jaw as if it were skin.

 

I'm using hooks in some areas along the jaw and I'm getting some weird things happening. right along the top edge of the jaw behind the corner of the mouth.

 

The line on the cheek is some kind of reflection. The ground plane, maybe?

 

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

And what he looks like when he removes his crown/funnel hat.

 

I just hid the crown and hat, so I guess that's what caused the grainyness in the one on the right.

 

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

I'm giving Stian a hand with Tinman...well, actually I'm working on the head of Tinman, not a hand, but you know what I mean.

 

Based on Bob's expression sketches.

 

Jim

[Rabbit]

Hi Matt,

 

Really nice job!

 

I just have a few minor tweaks, but overall it's great!

 

The cheeks seem a little too wide if we are going to be putting fur/hair on him/her.

 

The lower body could be a little chubbier especially the legs. I want him/her to be a little cuter.

 

Try turning up the nose a tiny bit.

 

Can you make the toes longer and more rabbit-like instead of round? Maybe just pull the areas between the toes back toward the ankle.

 

The rabbit looks kind of strung out and lacking sleep with the indentation around the eyes. Can you smooth that out so the forehead and cheeks flow smoothly to the eyes. If those are supposed to be the eyelids, there should be another spline ring around each eye for more subtle definition.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[Rigging the Bear]

The bear isn't changing. Bob approved that one already.

 

 

Edit: Actually the yes will probably change to be more like Scarecrow's. And we may have to rethink the geometry stitching along the seams unless someone can weight them really well.

 

 

Jim

[Texturing]

Hi Paul,

 

I don't want to go totally abstract. I want to keep things from looking weird-just-to-be-weird.

 

If we can think of everything as being a loose version of reality, like somewhere between realistic and cartoony. For instance, a door frame would be made just like a real door frame, but there could be a subtle curve to the sides of it and maybe the bevel is a little rounder than normal. Nothing overt and obvious, but a little bit "off" so we can avoid the audience sort of feeling the "uncanny valley" sensation. We don't want to mix very realistic things with caricaturized characters. We want to caricaturize the other elements too. Adding a few curves or bends in objects is just one way to keep things fun and interesting. But we shouldn't take it too far.

 

To comment on your trees:

 

I would say that they are already a little too stylized. Or maybe just not researched enough first.

 

I think the leaves/foliage parts look great. Is that hair particles? Are you using hair images? The leaves and needles do need more variety in color within the same tree.

 

I think the shapes of the tree trunks could be more angular in places, it looks a little too rounded, like rolled clay. Trees have knobs and bumps along the branches as they fork in different directions. Try to combine areas of angles with rounded areas to create an interesting silohuette shape. If it's too smooth it tends to look like noodles, to me anyway. See attached sketch.

 

The texture on the trunk seems pretty large in scale compared to the size of the tree. And there a very few trees that are actually brown. We need to look at real things and do a slightly stylized version of what we really see.

 

Hope this doesn't sound harsh.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[Texturing]

I was hoping you would!

 

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

Here's a wonderful expression montage that Bob drew for Tinman.

 

I like the way the jaw never really separates from the face. It will keep things from getting ugly with his lipsync.

 

Jim

[Rabbit]

I have replaced Tinman's Keekat eye with a standard eye. All the eyes will be alike, even though Tinman's and Tingirl's eyes will be tin.

 

I am attaching what I used for Nimmee Amee, Tingirl, Tinman and Chopfyt.

 

I'm not sure what to do for the rabbit. See how they work in his head. They may need to be more cross eyed.

 

Jim

eyeballs.mdl.zip

[Texturing]

 

The camera hasn't been a good tool to use for people who want to learn to paint with realistic color.

 

Let's think impressionist when it comes to color.

 

I'm not sure I'm understanding your preference, Jim... Are you preferring a realistic palette? or an impressionistic one? I am assuming impressionist. But we may have different definitions of that.

 

 

 

Hi Nancy,

 

I want an impressionist palette to be used for the texturing, to keep the colors clean. And also to let the viewers eye blend the colors for a richer visual experience. I don't want them to look at something and think, "Oh, that's a tiled photograph texture on that table." I want them to see a table with a caricature style that has an equal level of caricature style to the color. I know I'm not explaining myself very well here.

 

Take a blade of grass. I don't want it to be one flat color green and I don't want it to be a hyper-realistic scientific rendering of all the veins and details. I want it to have a mix of 3 or 4 or 5 greens, bended and blurred and dabbed, in a fun way that would be subtle overall but the mind subconsciously unifies them all and believes there is more detail there than there really is. Does that make any sense?

 

And I am thinking that this will be rendered without the toon style. Computer generated toon styles, the flat color with outlines, don't feel right to my eye. The line quality is rarely pleasing and usually lifeless. (Just a personal preference, don't jump all over me.)

 

Now that the style of the movie has shifted to even more of a caricature style (but still 3d-looking) than originally intended, I think the color should also be exaggerated some. I want to keep it colorful, without really putting super bright colors on everything. As mentioned, lighting will contribute a lot to that effect. I just want to avoid dull, dirty colors from being added at the start.

 

I am also thinking that any hair systems we make will be using hair images, instead of the actual particles representing the hair. That will allow us to control the look of the hair to match the rest of the style and colorization of the movie. And be faster styling and rendering.

 

Or maybe I'm full of it.

 

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

I think we're close!

 

I'd like to see the kneecap not go as high up in front. And make the kneecap flow into the shins in a more graceful curve.

 

Here's a Photoshop tweak to show what I'm trying to describe. Can you also make the flares on his ankles and wrists more pronounced. (Just for visual interest, and also to portray "clothes" when he gets his engraving.)

 

Thanks,

Jim

[Texturing]

Nice samples!

 

Anyone else?

 

Here are some of my thoughts about textures and colors (take'em or leave 'em):

 

In my experience, it's best to keep black out of any textures unless the item is really, really black. I try to get the darker areas by adding more dark complimentary colors. Then I allow the A:M renderer to add the darkest blacks in the shadows.

 

The camera hasn't been a good tool to use for people who want to learn to paint with realistic color. The eye can see so much more color than the camera can capture, so I want to put in our movie as much color as we can and let the rendering process and the viewing process (TV, film) tone it back down.

 

Let's think impressionist when it comes to color. Go outside and try to find black anywhere. Unless it's night time you probably won't find any in nature. There's a lot of ambient light that puts color everywhere. So I want to put color everywhere in this project, too.

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Jim

[Texturing]

I really don't want to use photography as decals or textures. Photographic textures usually make a model dirty looking, especially in skin textures. And they won't go with our cartton/caricature style.

 

We can look at photography for reference, but I would prefer that all the textures be hand painted. I'm sure we have plenty of talented people who can create clean textures and want to join the project.

 

Now I'm sure there will be instances that would allow some photos as textures, such as cloth weave patterns for bump maps on clothes and such, but color textures should be painted.

 

So, warm up your paint programs people. Show us your texturing prowess! Try skin, cloth, plant, and fur textures. And since I won't be rendering any of this on my slow Mac, try some native A:M procedural textures, too.

 

 

Jim

[New Chopfyt WIP]

Thanks!

 

I agree that he should look scarred from his paste job. I think decals and bump maps will be enough for the amount of gore we want to show. A scar around the upper flesh arm is probably all we really need, unless his head was cut off also.

 

I'm not sure enough about the story to know if Nimmee got chopped up or if Ku Klip just made Tingirl for Mrs.Yoot.

 

I don't mind people's comments. A lot of good ideas have been brought up that way. I put the vest on him because I thought the topless look was too much, but I felt the wife'beater t-shirt was out of place, too.

 

Jim

[New Chopfyt WIP]

Little tweaks to the wrist and abs.

 

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

Do you want me to scale it down on all the axis? or just make it more "slim". Both the crown and the funnel is separate pieces, but I'll need to close his scalp, no problem.

 

Regarding the kneecaps, do you want me to make the similar to the ps retouch?

 

 

Please scale the head in all axis.

 

Here's a doodle of how the kneecaps could be done. I want them to be part of the lower leg and cover a little of the upper leg so it doesn't look like the lower leg could bend forward as it does now. Hinge or ball joints are fine for the knees, I think.

 

Jim

[The new TinWoodsman]

Looks good, Stian! I like the simpler ankle area. Can you flare the wrist area like you did the ankle area?

 

I agree with Ken, the head seems too large for the body right now. One other thing I probably forgot to mention, is that at one point, Tinman takes off his crown (maybe in the presence of a lady?). Please make sure the funnel and crown are one piece or at least both removable from the head and that he has a top to his head underneath.

 

Try to make all his limbs a little bit thicker, without making his knee and elbow joints any bigger.

 

And I would really like to see some kind of kneecaps, too. You probably just haven't gotten to them yet.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[New Chopfyt WIP]

Yes, just the magnitude so far. And some cp peaking, because I'm lazy.

 

Jim

[New Chopfyt WIP]

Thanks all!

 

You're right about the wrist, Ken. I will work on that.

 

The abs are tricky because I don't want to have too many splines there to cause a rigging nightmare, so I'm trying to get definition with very few splines. If I soften the definition much now they start to disappear. We'll probably have to add bump maps eventually.

 

Jim

[Rabbit]

Looking REALLY good, Matt! Nice progress.

 

I agree about the nose looking like a little like a dog's. Maybe you can cheat a little and flatten his nose area/muzzle in a bit towards his face. Otherwise, super!

 

Jim