strohbehn
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Posts posted by strohbehn
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Awesome job, Ken and Bob! I can't wait to see this model in action! Who is slated to do her head poses? Is that you, Ken?
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Thanks Noel. I'll try it tonight.
Can these settings be done in the model's bones properties, or do they have to be set "permanantly" within a pose (the way it currently is in the FACE install file)?
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There's really no problem at all with how it functions. I think Hutch just likes the simpler look of the yellow box without the colored axis boxes.What's the problem? That you can't drag the nulls with translate only manipulators on them? I find I can if I click on the center of some blank space in the center of the null. I may be picking you up wrong though.
If that is it, I like the manipulators as you can limit it to one axis with the mouse. I guess you can also do that with the arrow keys though.
Are they cluttering? Do they not become coloured boxes when you select them?
But it's up to you. Either way doesn't change the usability. I think it seems more polished with the translate only manipulators.
Thanks a lot. There are some refinements of the FACE guts and instructions that Hutch has brought to my attention during his install in scarecrow, so if people are having any problems with installation I would advise waiting a couple of days till I finish up the update. There's nothing major... I just had to delete some values that were causing the eyelid sliders to jitter.FACE is a thing of beauty. No problems here with that aspect of it. Elegant and powerful. Best face rig I've ever used.
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The most current version was posted Nov. 10th, post #194, along with a PDF installation guide. I've made some slight changes since then and will be releasing it along with a greatly revised PDF guide... probably by Wednesday night.
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I'd be fine with that. It would be nice to not have the clutter of all the colored boxes. And you could still use the arrow keys if you needed X or Y-only movement. I can't tell for sure if it sets a rotation key anyway or not, though.
Does anyone else have an opinion on this before I make these changes?
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Definitely the second set you posted. Not the first!Oh, wait a sec. Did you mean these poses?
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Hi Hutch,I have the new face set up with some bones and weights on the right side. Just enough to make it easier to make the poses. I am not sure of how best to proceedfrom here though.
First of all, is it possible to mirror cp weights? Or do I have to go through and do the left side by hand like I did the right side.
Second, once I have it weighted I figure I will delete the face in the rigged body and import the face into it. At that point should I just constrain the head bone of the face to the head bone of the body or would it be better to re-assign cp's and weights to the head bone of the body and delete the one from the face.
Once I get all that worked out I will figure out how the FACE rig installation goes. Thanks for any help or suggestions in advance.
Here are the tools I use for this process: TSM2's "flipper" for the skeleton (I wasn't sure if you already had the bones in both sides yet or not), PHP Weight Flipper for mirroring the weights, and Mirrorsplines to realign bones and CP's as needed (both have to be exactly mirrored for "mirror smartskin" to work correctly).
Regarding which head bone to use... I can't see why it would be a problem just to keep the head bone that's already weighted and either make it a child of the body's head bone or just swap it in in place of the body head bone.
Let me know if you have any trouble installing the FACE. It should go in within about 10 minutes or less.
Mark
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I like the changes, Jim and Bob. Very nice job.
Mark
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Did you use WeightMover at all for weighting, or bone falloff, or was it all by hand? Thanks for working on the install version, Steve.
I’m pleased to say it’s a control point weighting error so I won’t be messing around with constraints and expressions.Are you going to try to achieve the lip alterations you mentioned with weighting alone or by altering the rig structure?At this stage, I’ve not got any plans to add anything new, so while I could change the way some of the angles are worked out, the fundamentals will stay the same. I’ll now finish up the import version of the rig.
P.S. I’ve put up a Hand Gizmo rig here that works on the same sort of principles as the Head Gizmo and might be something that’ll help the TWO project.
It'll be fun to check out your Hand Gizmo too.
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Noel,
There is only one slider in the FACE that is affected by this problem when it's imported, so don't spend time on it for my sake. It's not a big deal. Thanks, though.
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... the top lip has an annoying bit in the centre that's too sensitive and the bottom lip isn't sensitive enough to cheek movements and 'O' shapes. I don't know how I missed those glitches. I'd say it might take me one to three days of weight mapping to achieve the right look.
... I've just discovered that if you have the control bones out to one side for ease of selection, you can't paste mirrored keyframes as they are no longer at 0 on the X-axis. It'll work for the eyebrows, eyes and cheeks (maybe even the centre lip nulls), but the rest don't like it. Well, I suppose you could distribute the control bones higher or lower on the Y-axis rather than out to the sides.
Are you going to try to achieve the lip alterations you mentioned with weighting alone or by altering the rig structure? Just curious.
How about leaving the centrally located control bones intact and making a parent bone off to the side that you'd move as the control handle (with orient-like constraints to it on the central control bone)? With the expressions on the centrally located bone, maybe then paste-mirrored would work.
I look forward to the next release, Steve!
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I found that if you are going to split a pose with the Perl script (splitp.p), you have to do a few extra steps first.
1. Go into your model's properties by clicking the arrow next to the model name.
2. Open the User Properties tab, then the FACE Interface tab, then get down through the folders to whatever pose you are going to be making (let's use SmileWide for this example).
3. Make your SmileWide pose by R-Clicking on SmileWide, then select Edit Relationship. Move the mesh around until you are satisfied with the pose. Close the relationship window.
4. Delete out the RightSmileWide and LeftSmileWide poses from the User Properties list by R-Clicking on them and selecting Delete.
5. Resave your model under a different (sequentially numbered) file name.
6. Run the splitp.p script from the DOS command prompt to split your SmileWide pose into Left and Right versions. The command would look something like this (see script documentation for details):
perl splitp.p 0.5 SmileWide Model1.mdl Model1Split.mdl
I will update the PDF instructions to reflect these changes next week sometime.
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David, I just downloaded it to check and it worked fine for me too. Also, I went ahead and installed it in the Squetch_Rig_Final_11_9_2005_installation.mdl because it only takes a minute and that way I know it's working OK. As far as I can tell it doesn't conflict with your rig. If someone finds out otherwise, please let me know ASAP.
To all...
Here's David's Squetch install version with FACE already installed.
[attachmentid=11010]
Another thing I forgot to mention is the way the FACE is hidden and how to manage it for your models. When the "FACE off/Joint Controls/Split Controls" slider is in each of the positions (0,1,2), different parts of the interface mesh are scaled down and moved back inside of your model's head. You may have to edit the "FACE off/Joint Controls/Split Controls" pose and move the scaled CP's to another location If they end up outside of the head. If you don't, they will be visible at render time. And always remember to turn the FACE off when you render... unless you like it that much.
Let me know if you find any issues. I'll update the PDF as needed and add more regarding pose creation later next week. Use my sample face model for guidance on how to make each pose.
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Here's an install version of FACE for you to try.
There should be 4 files in the zip (I finally learned how to zip a file):
AM FACE documentation.pdf
FACE_11-10-05_InstallVersion1c.mdl (this is the install version for import into your models)
Four_Finger_Squetch_Rig_Final_11_9_2005.mdl (David Simmon's latest Squetch model you can use)
SquetchTom_FACE_Installed.mdl (FACE installed on Squetchy Tom, with my face mesh too)
The different FACE screen modes are now controlled by a three-way slider named "FACE off/Joint Controls/Split Controls". It's fun, so give it a try.
A few things I left out of the instructions:
1. The HeadProxy bone needs to be constrained to (translate to, and orient like) your model's head bone.
2. The FaceCam can be hidden in an action by making it inactive in its' properties tab. It still works, though by pressing the 1 key (if more than one camera, keep pressing 1 until you get the FaceCam).
3. You can change the colors of the interface boxes and font to whatever you want.
I'm sure there will be questions, errors, issues, etc. The instructions look tough, but it now takes me about 5 minutes or less to install it, so don't fret. And remember, it won't make the poses for you. That's your job. It just manages them in an efficient way once they are made.
I won't have much time to spend until next week now, but will check in now and then.
Take a look at Steven Cleary's latest version of his face gizmo. It's a beauty, and could be used either in place of FACE or as a rig to make the poses very quickly.
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Hi Steve,
I just now had the chance to look over your rig. It's incredible what you've done. The new lip nulls are great. This is the greatest thing since sliced cheese, Steve! Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. The thought of not having to do muscle poses for everything is awesome.
Questions: This must have been a very difficult mesh to weight. How fast could you duplicate this weighting job on another model? Do you think this is adaptable enough to be used on meshes of very different shape, like round or long and skinny?
This may be overkill, but I'm thinking it would be awesome to install your rig on the faces, then use the FACE for isolating the individual movements (making timeline editing easier). We'd have the benefits of being able to make the poses required for the FACE in a fraction of the time, and the ability to alter the poses quickly as well if needed. I'd like to try to plug the FACE onto your model to see how it goes. Nothing will change with your model.
The other option is to use your rig in place of the FACE altogether. Let's see what people think. C'mon everyone, give it a try.
Thanks for hanging in there, Steve. This is an awesome innovation.
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Mark - you've probably found this out by now - but I have found that I have to start fresh, in order not to get the "2" appended (when it shouldn't be). - i.e Clean start A:M, then open one model and import the other. Sometimes works.
However sometimes, I have crashes when importing some models and found I had to copy paste with bones & drag non-geometry bones & relationships to the new concatenated model rather than importing. (11.1i, pc)
I've never tried that before, Nancy, so thanks for the tip.
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Question: When importing one model into another, is there a way to keep the imported bones from being renamed (with a "2" added)?
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Martin, do you want the testing to be done on the FACE with head model only, or do you want it put into a version of Squetch?Sounds great! We've got a couple of rigger/artists lined up to start putting FACE through its paces.
After working on this today, I'm finding it's difficult to merge two rigged models (like FACE and Squetch). Not impossible, just tough.
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Thanks for the help, David. That's the info I needed. Would you want me to incorporate FACE into the Squetch rig, or would you need to do it? I don't know how many models are in the process of being rigged, but it would make life simpler to have it there from the start. Please let me know.
Regarding progress on the FACE....
I have the install version completed, along with about 8 pages of handwritten notes that I'll need to photocopy and mail out to everyone
.... Or maybe I'll use PDF format instead.I should have it packaged and ready to go by the end of the day if things go smoothly.
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Hi Steve,
I won't have a chance to look over your changes until tonight, but definitely look forward to seeing what you've done.
Based on recent posts in the FACE thread, I'm under the impression that the graphical interface I've been working on (FACE) has been given the go-ahead. Please keep in mind that the work you are currently doing, deformation using a bones-based rig instead of muscle-based poses, should be continued as a separate add-on head rig (or could be incorporated into the squetch rig).
I view the FACE as nothing more than a tool for manipulating the pose sliders found in the pose slider window, whether they be muscle-based poses like in my example model or bones-based poses like in your model. Your work, on the other hand, could provide the TWO project with a faster way to actually make the poses we need to plug into the FACE and also offers the advantage of decreased possibility of poses fighting each other, as sometimes happens with muscle-based poses in the FACE system.
Does this make sense?
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Everyone now.... Standing ovation for David Simmons!!!
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Thanks for the help, Paul. I gave that a try and ended up sending it in to A:M reports.... have you tried saving your project and reloading. Doing this or rebooting sometimes clears problems for some unknown reason.
Nice enthusiasm, Ken! I think it is possible to merge the two without much difficulty. Can't you just import one model (head only) into the other (body)?My hand's up for the face rigging. I'd need the instructions first though.
PS I wonder if it's possible to merge facial and body rigs. So, while someone works on the body another could do the face at the same time.....not vital though.
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While I finish up with the under-the-hood finalization of FACE, there is no reason the FACE riggers have to wait on me before getting started. Here's what you all can be doing (that will likely take quite a bit of time):
*** Start with a perfectly symmetrical mesh if the character design allows it!!!
If the model is using muscle-based poses:
1. Add Head and Jaw bones and weight them so that when you open the jaw you get a natural mouth opening (the corners are difficult).
2. Make these poses for starters:
- MouthOpen (should be done with Jaw bone movement only)
- NarrowOO (like pursed lips)
- SmileWide.
Only make the joint poses (not left and right). Then use Jack Morrison's (Aminator) pose splitter script to split them into left and right. Find it here: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...13347&hl=script
Look at my face model for what areas of the face to use and generally how the poses might look. If you can get a copy of "Stop Staring" by Jason Osipa, please do it. He shows how poses should be modeled and weighted.
This should take several days to accomplish well while I finish up the interface. You all won't even need the FACE until most of your poses are made.
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Thanks for the encouragement Frank and Martin. I appreciate it.
I should be able to post a final model and install instructions within about 2 days.
There is one last technical issue that I need help with. After moving the three constraints pose folders into one parent folder (to get them out of the way since they are never used), the eyelids stop responding to their control null input. If the Eye Constraints pose is turned OFF, then the eyelids work as required but then the eyeballs don't track with the EyeAimer bone (or the eyeaimer null). I've looked everywhere I can think of and cannot find the problem. Can somebody please help figure it out?
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A brainstorm just hit me as I was brushing my teeth before bed
... put the 3 show/hide Graphical Interface switches on a 3-position pose slider. Position 1=FACE OFF, Joint Pose Controls OFF, Split Pose Controls OFF
Position 2=FACE ON, Joint Pose Controls ON, Split Pose Controls OFF
Position 3=FACE ON, Joint Pose Controls OFF, Split Pose Controls ON
Set the default position to 2 (or whatever you like)
I fired up A:M, and 1 minute later we now have a much nicer solution for switching between modes!
A:M is the best!
Rigging the new Scarecrow
in TWO: General Discussion
Posted
This bad boy is really workin' you over. My money is on you, though. Thanks for all your hard work, David!