Jump to content
Hash, Inc. Forums

The Saucy Rig (Version 1.5)


Mechadelphia
 Share

Recommended Posts

Matt, before you run the plugin make sure the pelvis, spine1 and 2 neck and head are on the 0 axis. And remove the y and z rotation. Use macks settings on the plugin. I did not realize on several installs the center geoms were off the x and had errant rotation and my mirror results were horrible. But once i checked those and reran the plugin all was well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Okay- finally got back around to this and finished RIGGING a character with the SAUCY rig! It is nice, easy install, minimal bones(compared to TSM2) and seems easy enough to animate with... GREAT finger controllers! One feature I don't see that I would use ALL the TIME with my TSM2 characters is the ability to have the arms and legs on a stretch slider... comes in handy when you just can't reach something or keep a foot on the ground with an obtuse pose or action... or with my 'Tireman' character having a large tire for a torso sometimes his little arms could not reach around the body to do a simple action or pose. I think I can add this slider in myself tho...

 

Also great documentation! I recommend this going forward as a TSM2 replacement. I really-really appreciate this rigger!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

I am getting the 'hang' of this SAUCY rig! There is a bit of a transition coming from TSM2 setups, but all in all it is quite nice. Things I am missing from TSM3 is the 'hips' being able to swing about without the feet following, but I think the settings are there that would make that happen. The finger controllers are really nice... DELUXE just like TSM2.

What I really like is the way I can do things in the choreography like transition between actions and use additive actions- there was always something in TSM that convoluted such things. It is an approachable- add-on-able, customizable setup. I noticed there were no arm or leg stretch sliders... but adding my own was quite easy.

 

The install process is straightforward enough... do it 2-3 times and you got it down, just can't skip any steps.

 

At first when I started animating, my results reminded me of... everyone else's style!!!- I had lost my identity! But, now with some familiarization and learning all the little controls you can use... I am seeing my 'bad-habit-self-taught-shortcut-city' trademarks coming thru.

 

TOP MARKS!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree completely.

 

The saucy rig is a great option and I'm beginning to put it into my new characters as they are created.

 

2 things I find could be improved:

 

Once you get a model to "rigged" status(as saucy stages go)land you decide to go back in to tweek a smartskin,

you find that the bone has been hidden. This makes it painful to find and work with the rotations.

 

ALSO.....I would like to have one more "Spine bone" to control. With just two spine controls, it is not always clear where

to properly place them prior to the rigging stage in order to have them in the right place.

 

Overall, I find the Saucy Rig to be superior to the TSM2, because it is easier to set up. And it is much less daunting than the

squetch rig. I normally add the things I like anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

William- I just did some SmartSkinning today on my SOCCI Character- it is not that bad. Make a new action with your character- bend the joint you want SS'd in the way you want it... then, on the Supplemental tab- Show Geometry Bones to ON. Then Rclick on the bone that needs to be SS'd and Rclick select new SmartSkin and begin to rearrange your CP's for that deformation...

 

THEN- to avoid confusion- delete that action when you are done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can anyone tell if the 3 controls in the 'Spine' tab do anything?

-Steady Head

-Steady Chest

-Steady Pelvis

I get no reactions when I activate these.

 

ALSO- I am experimenting with constraining my SAUCY character to a BVH action... and it is a spin action which causes a 'pop' in the spine where GEOM Center Spine 1 suddenly loses its roll-handle orientation by 180degrees. Don't know what to do on this one...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can anyone tell if the 3 controls in the 'Spine' tab do anything?

-Steady Head

-Steady Chest

-Steady Pelvis

I get no reactions when I activate these.

 

I haven't tried the saucy rig for a long time...and do not have a model handy to try, but I'm guessing that what these controls are supposed to do (similar to 2008 rig) when they are turned ON, for example is to keep the head oriented the same, eg looking forward or however it is set (when moving the chest). Similarly the chest would stay oriented the same (doesn't change) when moving the pelvis. As for steady pelvis? I dunno.Maybe when moving the feet?

 

Turning those options off, would mean that the head would turn when the chest turns, chest would turn when pelvis turns, pelvis turns when the feet change, I'm guessing.

 

But I have no idea if the saucy rig is doing it correctly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys,

 

I replaced the Saucy head and neck bones with my own. I renamed them exactly and put whatever children of the old bones as children

of the new bones.

 

But when I finished the rigg process, the control bones didn't work.

 

I figured if the naming conventions and child bones were there it would work. But it did not.

 

The reason I was trying to use my existing head bones is because I already had a weighted jaw, lips and brow connected.

I didn't want to have to do it all over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you make sure the parents of the old bones were now parenting the new bones? I had rigged a head bone and jaw bone in my character before I installed the SOCCI/SAUCY rig... afterwards, I made the jaw bone a child of the saucy head bone and deleted my head bone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear ya.... Unfortunately, I erased the original Saucy head bone and gave the name to my head bone. I thought everything was in the same place and heirarchy. But

when the controls are turned on in the rigging stage of the Saucy process, the original bones must be needed.

 

In the future, I will bring my head rig in after the Saucy Rig has been fully set up and then bring in my own head system. A translate to & orient like constraint could then be

used to attach my head to the Saucy setups.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeeeeah. I usually make a ON/OFF pose (I call Constraints or Intermediaries) where I do all my constraints, like fan/intermediary bones, eye aim-at's..., then another pose (I call 'Animate Ready') where I take the character out of the T pose(into a more natural standing pose), set the IK/FK's the way I like and set the constraint pose to ON... this way I can just drag my character into an action or chor and set the 'Animate Ready' pose to ON and I am ready to start animating.

 

The SAUCY rig is a nice 'get it done' rig, missing some of the nice stuff TSM2 had in the hips-to-upperbody relationships and 'feet-to-the floor' departments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey "Saucy Riggers"......

 

I made an early "Mistake" in steps on a rig. I imported the saucy rig into a model and moved the GEOM Bones into place.

 

HOWEVER......I forgot to set all the "Rig Poses" to "Not set".......I had already moved the GEOM bones into place.

 

So I went and set the poses to "not set" after the GEOM BONES were in place.

 

DO YOU THINK THIS WILL MESS EVERYTHING UP when I go to the rig set up stage or am I OK.

 

I know Mack sets all the poses to "not set" before moving the Geom Bones into place.

 

I don't want to do it all over again if I don't have to, but I need this rig to work correctly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I went through the process of running the "Rigging steps to see if there is any noticable flaw due to my placing the GEOM BONES in place prior to setting the

rig poses to "not set".......So far, everything looks OK.

 

So I think I will just go back and complete my "Weighting and Smart Skins."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi fellows ... I'm trying some rigs into my model... after I CONFORM and EXPORT RIG the rigged model doesn't have USER PROPERTIES in its properties... Is missing some obvius step ?

V18p SSE4

 

export.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This happened to me as i did not set the poses to not set before i had exported.

Thank you for reply Steve...Before export all poses are set to NOT SET except SUPPLEMENTAL->CONFORM RIG SETUPS TO GEOMETRY BONES OF MODEL ( ON )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Hi Everyone.

 

It has been quite awhile since I have posted in this forum but I wanted to let you know that I have an update coming soon for the Saucy Rig.

 

It is primarily a major fix for the behavior of the IK legs. The knees have a tendency to get a bit wonky when rotating the pelvis control. That problem was caused by the way that I parented some of the bones but that is fixed is in the new rig.

 

I also have 2 additional rig types that you can swap in in case you may prefer a different way of controlling the body (you'll see...)

 

I also made a few minor tweaks to improve the usability a little bit.

Anyway, I will let you know when I post the new rig file(s). I am hoping to post it by this Wednesday or Thursday.

 

I want to thank everyone that has tried the rig and I thank all of you that have complimented me for it. I really appreciate it.

 

I have not read all of the post yet where some of you have had trouble. When I post the new rig I will also answer those questions if they have not been answered yet.

 

If you have any questions in the meantime then please let me know here.

 

Take care.

 

 

 

  • ____ 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone.

 

Alright, I have posted the new rig(s) at my website with some brief notes about what's new.

 

You can download the file from there and check out the notes thats I have there at the moment.

 

I will update the notes to include more detail soon but I just wanted to get the update out in the meantime.

 

If you have already installed Saucy Rig version 1c or earlier then you do not need to reinstall everything from scratch.

 

I will update my page with a video about the process soon.

 

If you have any questions or need clarification on something about the rig then just let me know.

  • ____ 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very nice. I like.

I'm refreshing my memory on the ins and outs of the Saucy rig because it's been quite awhile since I played with a Saucy-rigged character.

Too much fun!

 

There is a lot to like about the rig and I especially like how the demo characters seem to already have character even before manipulating but display personality easily with a few shifts/rotations of a controller.

 

Something else I like over all is your addition of Notes/Credits in the User Properties.

That's a nice touch.

 

I haven't gotten far into my research yet but I did start playing with the finger controllers etc. to refresh my memory there.

I almost feel like I've asked this question before so... apologies if I have...

What is the preferred way to create basic hand gestures with the Saucy rig (fist, pointing, etc.)?

I believe what I'm looking for is to create a pose set that collects a bunch of standard hand poses from which to initiate further refinement.

This may open me to accusations of being lazy but... I am... so I plead guilty.

To continue in this same vein my thought is to have a resting hand pose that is roughly that of the character holding an (invisible) baseball (see attached image).

I'm guessing I can get at this functionality through an Action (or set of Actions) but I'm curious if such a thing as a pose collection might appropriate to add to a rig such as the Saucy Rig.

...And now I'm off to investigate more... :)

 

Added: I'm reading back on your documentation especially as it relates to Steve's Hand Gizmo.

 

Thanks much for the update!

LooseGrip.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't attempted to make them dance yet but adjusting your demo poses just slightly made me think of having a dance off...

 

I'm not quite up to that but I am intrigued by the idea. ;)

 

 

P.S. I'm reviewing your video on the Saucy Rig Hands here:

http://mechadelphia.com/wp-content/uploads/videos/Saucy_Rig_Demo/04_Hands.mp4

SaucyRigDanceOff.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you!

 

 

 

...I haven't gotten far into my research yet but I did start playing with the finger controllers etc. to refresh my memory there.
I almost feel like I've asked this question before so... apologies if I have...
What is the preferred way to create basic hand gestures with the Saucy rig (fist, pointing, etc.)?
I believe what I'm looking for is to create a pose set that collects a bunch of standard hand poses from which to initiate further refinement.
This may open me to accusations of being lazy but... I am... so I plead guilty.
To continue in this same vein my thought is to have a resting hand pose that is roughly that of the character holding an (invisible) baseball (see attached image).
I'm guessing I can get at this functionality through an Action (or set of Actions) but I'm curious if such a thing as a pose collection might appropriate to add to a rig such as the Saucy Rig.
...And now I'm off to investigate more... :)

Added: I'm reading back on your documentation especially as it relates to Steve's Hand Gizmo.

Thanks much for the update!

 

 

Rodney, have a look at robcat2075's post about poses (watch the video). He specifically covers something called "draggable poses" which may be a good way to go for that.

 

You can use that approach to create a large variety of hand poses and it would be very quick and easy for you to set up and use.

 

 

Something else I like over all is your addition of Notes/Credits in the User Properties.
That's a nice touch.

 

 

Thanks.

 

In the earlier versions of the Saucy Rig, those credits and thank you notes were actually included in the rig file too except that they were buried deep in the relationship folders where maybe two or three people that I could think of would ever dig deep enough to see them. I can tell you that if they found those notes then they certainly were not expecting to find them :) .

 

I wanted to put them front and center for this version so that is one of the reasons why I made the "Notes" folder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rodney, have a look at robcat2075's post about poses (watch the video). He specifically covers something called "draggable poses" which may be a good way to go for that.

 

You can use that approach to create a large variety of hand poses and it would be very quick and easy for you to set up and use.

 

 

Will do! Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dragable poses are similare to the "pose menu" set ups that professionals use in large studios.

 

For instance, you can pre-establish a list of hand poses that can be dragged into an action or choreography.

 

Back in 2008, I set up face, hand, etc. poses for many characters. That way if I wanted a hand to Point, or make

a fist, I could just drag that pose onto the character and it would save the time of having to bend all the fingers into position.

 

PLUS, after you drag it in, you can adjust it to your liking. It basically sets a key for the bones into that position.

 

You can also make drag poses for entire character. It's very flexible.

 

Some Studios have entire libraries with thumbnail images for each pose. They program it so that you can click on a thumbnail and it sets the key

and pose on the character. Kind of like a selection set of poses. So you can actually dial up the face poses for instance and get your

character into a "frown" automatically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

Hi Mack

 

I wanted to ask something about the 1.5 rig. Is it possible to install a scale able leg? We were discussing in our skype meeting on Sunday about knee popping. I know you have incorporated some help with this, but there are times when the only way to complete the pose without causing the knee to bend backward is with a leg that can extend or decrease with a slider. Is this something you think we can add with a pose?

 

Thanks

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And just to further clarify... the knee "pop" we were talking about is not the "IK knee pop" one usually thinks about as "knee pop"

 

What we are looking for is a way to slightly scale the length of the thigh and calf (but not the foot that is a child of the calf) to fine tune where the knee is during walks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Robert and Steve,

 

I apologize. I did not realize that there were new posts here.

 

Just so that I am clear on this: You want to know if I can incorporate a leg scaling slider like the one in the video that does not affect the scale of the foot. The purpose of the functionality would be to tweak the knee location during walks. Is that correct?

 

It is possible. Which rig is being used in the video? I'd like to see how it is being accomplished there since that may help.

 

I have a question about the slider in the video though. I noticed that the slider has positive and negative values. It is clear to me what is happening in the positive range of the slider. What is happening in the negative range? Would -100% return the leg to its original length or is something else happening there?

 

I will need to resubscribe to A:M before I can look at it though and I am not exactly sure when I will do that just yet (hopefully not very long from now). I think that I will just go with the never expiring version this time around.

 

Anyway, I have to have a look to see what I will need to do.

 

I will keep you posted...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just so that I am clear on this: You want to know if I can incorporate a leg scaling slider like the one in the video that does not affect the scale of the foot. The purpose of the functionality would be to tweak the knee location during walks. Is that correct?

 

Correct.

 

It is possible. Which rig is being used in the video? I'd like to see how it is being accomplished there since that may help.

 

 

That is TSM2

 

 

I have a question about the slider in the video though. I noticed that the slider has positive and negative values. It is clear to me what is happening in the positive range of the slider. What is happening in the negative range? Would -100% return the leg to its original length or is something else happening there?

 

0% is the default length of the leg

Greater than 0% is longer

Less than 0% is shorter

 

TSM2 normally creates a 0 to 100 slider that lengthens the leg a large amount.

I found that not useful and edited the Pose to just do slight scaling on a -10 to +10 scale

 

 

thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

Ok, so I took a look at this.

 

I can do it but, because of the way A:M handles bone scaling, I would need to fundamentally change this rig by subdividing the limbs in the same way that David Simmon's Squetch Rig and Anzovin's The Setup Machine Rig does. I tried to do it with my current setup but there were some really bad distortion problems when rotating the limb.

 

So... if I were to do this then this would be more of a Saucy Rig 2.0 and without any relatively simple rig upgrade path like there was from v1 to v1.5.

 

I don't know what your production schedule is but this would take me some time to put together so you should not wait for me to put this together.

 

I think that I will circle back and do this but I don't know when yet.

 

What issue are you trying to address that a leg scaling would help with?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for that detailed explanation Robert.

 

Just so you know, I don't think that scaling solution is cheating at all.

 

Now that I understand your dilemma a bit more I'll make some time to work on this today and this coming weekend(s).

 

Is the model (or a proxy of it) from your video one that you can you can send to me for my testing? If so then you can post it here or e-mail it to me at mack@mechadelphia.com? (That's right, I'm not worried about spammers ;) )

 

In the meantime: The Squetch Rig's functionality can address all of the issues that you covered in the video (with scaling and Soft IK).

 

Thanks. I will update you when I make any notable progress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the model (or a proxy of it) from your video one that you can you can send to me for my testing?

 

I'll send it in a PM.

 

 

In the meantime: The Squetch Rig's functionality can address all of the issues that you covered in the video (with scaling and Soft IK).

 

 

How do we do that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Robert.

 

I have the file now. Thank you.

 

With the Squetch Rig, I just meant that you would need to install that rig into your model to get the functionality that you are looking for. It is already capable of performing the functions that you needed to have available to you in your video.

 

I will keep you posted...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could'nt the extra feature of a scaling leg be added easily enough by the end user? In a new percentage pose- Scale the upper leg bone in its Z direction and all bones below it in the chain will scale as well, and then offset the ones you don't want scaled by scaling them back to the approximate size they were... or am I missing something... (I bet I am...!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could'nt the extra feature of a scaling leg be added easily enough by the end user?

 

This end user found it wasn't easy.

 

Scaling the leg and then reverse scaling the foot compensate is probably tricky to get so exact that the foot never changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Could'nt the extra feature of a scaling leg be added easily enough by the end user?

 

This end user found it wasn't easy.

 

Scaling the leg and then reverse scaling the foot compensate is probably tricky to get so exact that the foot never changes.

 

 

Oddly enough, I was actually able to figure out a way to counter scale the foot with a driver.

 

The real problem though when scaling along a bone's Z axis is that its children get skewed and distorted when they are rotated. I mentioned that in post #91. I suppose that may be one of several reasons the TSM and Squetch rigs were designed the way that they were. I am guessing that the skewed bone phenomenon is a bug.

 

Anyway, since I'm here I'd like all of your thoughts on the following:

 

The TSM Rig's limb bones are subdivided into two bones each so a thigh and lower leg bone are comprised of a total of 4 bones.

 

The Squetch Rig's are subdivied into 4 bones so a thigh and lower leg bone are comprised of a total of 8 bones.

 

Each approach is fine but I find the Squtech Rig 4 bone sudivisions leaves the door open to more options for the limb if desired.

 

I am leaning heavily towards doing a 3 bone subdivision. It is a compromise between the two aformentioned approaches to me.

 

That may not really mean very much to you if you are not familiar with rigging but for those that are familiar with it, what are your thoughts about these 3 different approaches?

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The skewed bone phenomenon is not a bug so much as it is the child inheriting the scaling of its parent... exactly. It would be bad if it didn't.

This is what makes it possible to have non spherical eyeballs can still be posed with one bone at their center, for example.

A work around is to have a child bone not be a child at all, but be TranslateTo and OrientLike constrained to an intended parent. Then it will inherit the motion of the parent but not scaling.

 

It's been a while since I used a Squetch rig character. I'm foggy on how those worked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The skewed bone phenomenon is not a bug so much as it is the child inheriting the scaling of its parent... exactly. It would be bad if it didn't.

 

This is what makes it possible to have non spherical eyeballs can still be posed with one bone at their center, for example.

 

A work around is to have a child bone not be a child at all, but be TranslateTo and OrientLike constrained to an intended parent. Then it will inherit the motion of the parent but not scaling.

 

It's been a while since I used a Squetch rig character. I'm foggy on how those worked.

 

 

Ok. I thought about that more and I understand what you are saying about that not being a bug.

 

I meant to ask this before but forgot to:

 

Your video showed what happened with your model rigged with the TSM Rig.

 

Did you guys try the Saucy Rig in the eggbot model at all? If so then what were the results with the walk cycle?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...