Animation is fun

[Ilidrake]

In case anyone hasn't noticed, Robcat has offered some lectures to a small group of us. This has been a very insightful experience so far. And just from his first animation lecture I have learned a great deal. I hope it translates into the animations I do for the lecture.

 

But it also has me thinking. Thinking about "why" I wanted to learn to animate to begin with. Please do not misinterpt this post in any way, shape, or form as not appreciating Robcat's help. It is not. It is me simply reflecting on myself.

 

When I was a kid I loved cartoons. I still do. I think they are the greatest thing. I used to be in awe of Disney films. Saturday morning cartoons had me hooked well into my 20's. Sad, but true. I always loved to draw, and paint. But I always had this desire, in fact dream, to one day grow up and make cartoons. I love to tell and write stories. I love making up characters and situations.

 

Sadly somewhere along the path I lost this love. Life, stress, and the desire to eat took it from me. It's not to say I lost the dream, it's just that things got in the way. I am now 35 and finally have things semi-quiet. And I have returned to what I loved as a child with a fever. But being older I now have this compulsion that what I create has to be perfect.

 

After doing the first 2 assignments of Robcats I have come to realize one thing. It's perfect when "I" say it is. And it doesn't have to be. Animation is about telling a story. It's about putting our thoughts and dreams, and fears, and love out there for the whole world to see. But they don't necessarily have to understand it. If it involves money, then I suppose it does. But I'm not doing this to geta job. I'm doing this for me, and only me.

 

So if some of my poses aren't strong enough, or some of my animation doesn't nail it down. Well, so what. I'll move on and get better the more I do it.

 

Because the most important thing is to have FUN!!! If your not having fun then it's not worth it.

[Rodney]

Sadly somewhere along the path I lost this love.

 

I hear you there.

 

That is why I still go to the movies with the goal to enjoy the movie.

I'm not going to study it.

 

Of course that doesn't mean I can't somewhere down the line but only if that research is also within the framework of fun and further discovery.

 

But stick with it because in short order you'll be the one that is creating that level of fun for others to enjoy!

 

Now, having said that...

There is the very important aspect of animation that is all about work... getting the job done.

This is usually the repetitious aspect that most people don't want to do and if they can they'll farm that work out to someone else.

But it's no less important than having the fun.

And without that work being put into the product there would be a whole lot less fun for everyone.

 

I'm glad you are digging deep and enjoying Robert's class!

[Roger]

All I can say is hang in there.

 

While I'm not quite in the same boat as you (I'm not working nearly as many hours, for one thing), I find my biggest problem is I'll get all fired up, make some good progress, and then end up dropping things for a month or more. Last year I was making good headway and then got laid up with pneumonia on my vacation, of all things.

I didn't feel like doing anything other than veg on the couch.

 

At this point in my life, I'm fairly certain I'm not going to be working in this field in a professional capacity (although who knows, I guess anything can happen)

I'm a little older than you (37) but I definitely understand the desire to eat on a regular basis. I was underemployed for most of my 20s, barely getting by. I've got a decent enough job now, but it isn't exactly what I saw myself doing.

 

Really, I just have two goals now: work on getting a little better or learn something new every day, and finish my film. It would be great if I that translated into doing that for a living, but at least if it is entertaining and people can actually watch it and enjoy it, I'll consider it a success. I guess we'll see what happens

[robcat2075]

I'll just note that "bouncing ball" isn't an end in itself. There aren't many calls for it in storytelling animation.

 

It IS a simplest case we can use to teach some better workflow practices and a simplest case we can use to learn to animate a common motion that is frequently called for.

 

It's just one bone forchrissake!

[mouseman]

One of the issues with animation is that it's hard. For me, it's something I enjoy having done but don't enjoy as much the doing. A lot of knowledge and work goes in to making something even relatively small. It's hard to do on your own. And if you want to go out and do it as a profession, there are a lot of people learning how to do it, so the competition for jobs in it is big.

 

Do it to have fun. Focus on smaller projects until you can do bigger ones. Find someone to work with. Life is too short to do anything else.

[Ilidrake]

Good points.

[Roger]

One of the issues with animation is that it's hard. For me, it's something I enjoy having done but don't enjoy as much the doing. A lot of knowledge and work goes in to making something even relatively small. It's hard to do on your own. And if you want to go out and do it as a profession, there are a lot of people learning how to do it, so the competition for jobs in it is big.

 

Do it to have fun. Focus on smaller projects until you can do bigger ones. Find someone to work with. Life is too short to do anything else.

 

 

I'm going to 2nd Mouseman. The sense of accomplishment I get from the finished product is more where the joy is for it in me, not so much from the process itself. Perhaps if I ever get good enough to the point where the actual work requires less struggle, I'll be able to enjoy that more.

 

One of my side projects I want to do is to make a really short, like 10 or 15 second animation of a goldfish or beta swimming in a bowl. I figure I can use it to learn cloth (for the fins), I get to animate something simple (no limbs!) and I can play around with caustics.

 

If you're interested in working together on something, or just want moral support, email me. I would say PM but I don't think PMs work anymore, and I don't want to post my email ( I get enough spam as it is). Maybe I need to set up an ID just for AM stuff.

So maybe put up your contact info in the sub board and I can get it there (or vice versa).

 

But anyway, Robcat's stuff is good, I don't know what my stumbling block last night was but seeing his critique of your exercise, that made something click. Or maybe it was just seeing the same info presented in a slightly different way, I don't know. Or maybe coming back to it after getting some exercise was enough to let the lesson percolate in my brain.

[robcat2075]

I'll say one more thing...

 

Ilidrake... you're working on an oil rig? You probably have better pay, better job security, maybe even better hours than people who work in animation in this country.

 

At Blue Sky they have to work 100 hour weeks and only get paid for 60 of them. Why do they put up with that?

 

You're right to want animation to be fun. It should be. My goal is to make easier by doing it right.

[Rodney]

The sense of accomplishment I get from the finished product is more where the joy is for it in me, not so much from the process itself.

 

I'm glad we've got guys/gals like you in the community that are after that finished product because I tend toward the opposite.

I can get lost in the process for hours trying one thing... then trying another thing out.

It's so much fun to me that I often stop shy of finishing the project because I've satisified my curiousity enough to know that it's a useful process that can be utilized should I ever need it in a 'real' project. It helps (if you can call it helping) that I'm not on any strict deadline and I'm not signed on to any specific project.

The rules change when that happens.

 

I believe that where I am is in what would be called the 'off season'.

That's that inevitable time when you are in between projects.

It's not good to be there in the off season indefinitely however so it's always good to be attached to a project in some capacity.

[Ilidrake]

Jumping from one project to the next has always been a real problem for me. I think though that I finally found a nice medium. I have managed to stick to the Woke Up Dead project for quite some time now. Despite updates on the forum about it I can proudly say it's still going. But, when I find myself lulling off I immediatly find some small detail that I am slacking in and I will make a mini-project to work on. The only rule for it is I have to use resources I already have. No making new models or anything like that. I have to use the models and props I have. This way I learn to use those assets.

 

Case in point. Robcats lessons. I've used my Latimer model for all the poses. The 11 second animation "Two Men Enter". Once more I used Latimer and learned alot about how the character moves and animates. I can say it has really helped me more than just shoving the project aside and moving on.

[Ilidrake]

*Bump*?

[Rodney]

Not sure you need to bump a topic that is only a few minutes old but hey... it's your topic...

 

Case in point. Robcats lessons. I've used my Latimer model for all the poses. The 11 second animation "Two Men Enter". Once more I used Latimer and learned alot about how the character moves and animates. I can say it has really helped me more than just shoving the project aside and moving on.

 

I really like that you are doing this. It serves many purposes but first and foremost to my mind is that it really runs your characters through the paces and makes sure you've got them fully production ready. And not only that but it gives you time to get familiar with animating them yourself. Bottom line: Using what you've created is a very good idea.

[fae_alba]

SO I can't work on Robcats lessons right now. I wanted to really. Even carved out time this evening to do it. But then A:M was so kind to remind me that I need to buy this year's license. Ah weel, lads will have to wait 'till the weekend!

 

As for the comments here. Ive got to add my two cents worth. I'm a writer, did it quasi professionally for a while (sort of), but then bills piled up..yadda yadda yadda. For me, working with animation is an effort of, oft times, frustration. I have this image in my head of what I want to create, but things never quite seem to pan out. I've wanted to, for a long time tell my stories, bring them to life, have others enjoy them. So I keep plugging along trying to get "better". One thing I've been forced to realize, a life's lesson of sorts. I can't do it all. Period. When it comes to animation, there is a reason, in my mind, that studios have different folks doing the character design, modeling, rigging, animating etc. I now am at the point of convincing myself that if I want my stories told, I need to farm some of this work to others who are much more skilled than I. Does this disappoint me? You bet. But I need to keep within my own skill, and produce a quality product that I, and anybody else involved can be proud of.

 

There are many days, that after working 10 hours at one job, coming home and working 4-5 more hrs at another, all I want to do is fire up A:M and create. Rarely works out since this old man (I'm close to my AARP membership!) simply can't keep his eyes open, and the thought of staring at a screen one more minute is exhausting. But, story telling is still a passion, and like you all, dammit I want to tell my stories!

 

Hang in there, learn, do, tell your stories. Ilidrake, your story I really want to see done, I think your plot is a fantastic one.

[Roger]

One thing I've been forced to realize, a life's lesson of sorts. I can't do it all. Period. When it comes to animation, there is a reason, in my mind, that studios have different folks doing the character design, modeling, rigging, animating etc. I now am at the point of convincing myself that if I want my stories told, I need to farm some of this work to others who are much more skilled than I. Does this disappoint me? You bet. But I need to keep within my own skill, and produce a quality product that I, and anybody else involved can be proud of.

 

This is something I've been wrestling with. I'm awful at rigging. Lousy. It is extremely tedious for me. I much prefer modeling or animating.

I've thought about hiring Robcat (or someone) to do the rigging on my other character, I know someone skilled could probably knock it out in a week or two whereas it would take me months. At least then I can concentrate on the animation.

 

My project is in danger of becoming a "Rustboy". That guy is very talented, but I haven't seen anything new on his site in a long time.

 

I'm sort of wedded to Martin's philosophy of "one man, one machine, one movie" but it is difficult to be highly proficient in modeling, animating, lighting, rigging, etc. Always seems to be something you're better or worse at.

 

So, utlimately, if I want this to be finished before the heat death of the universe, I may need collaborators.

[Rodney]

I'm awful at rigging. Lousy. It is extremely tedious for me.

 

One of the goals we have here in the forum is to improve everyone's ability to do .

If improvement in rigging is a goal for you personally, we want that too.

One thing we are doing better at here in the past year or two is sharing feedback with one another.

That helps in breaking through because we don't know what 'difficult' really means to you.

 

Several things can be done to bridge this gap and one is to encourage you to share your current experience.

This might take the form of a a video captured sequence of you rigging a character and then having others make recommendations to you.

It might be sharing a rig and having someone else go through it and run it through it's paces.

It might be someone sharing their workflow.

Perhaps most importantly though is that you share your experience as you move from 'awful' to uberly-talented master rigger of characters.

What you learn will help others steer clear of being awful too.

 

We are all lousy at rigging compared with the forum rigging gurus.

It may be worth noting however that once upon a time they were awful at that stuff too.

[fae_alba]

One of the goals we have here in the forum is to improve everyone's ability to do .

If improvement in rigging is a goal for you personally, we want that too.

One thing we are doing better at here in the past year or two is sharing feedback with one another.

That helps in breaking through because we don't know what 'difficult' really means to you.

 

I hear ya Rodney, and that's the one top thing I love about this forum. And I will continue to hone my skills, since I'm a firm believer that in order to manage the workflow, and others, I need to know the process myself. But, I also am realistic that the projects I want to do are far more than one individual can get done....I aint giving up nor giving in.

[itsjustme]

I'm awful at rigging. Lousy. It is extremely tedious for me. I much prefer modeling or animating.

 

My rigging has improved my modeling and animating. There are things I do better than others (I'm still very much a work in-progress), but each one complements the rest...they are inter-related. You can be a great modeler of static characters only to find out that once they begin to move, things don't work well. Animating involves observing how things move...so does rigging.

 

I've thought about hiring Robcat (or someone) to do the rigging on my other character, I know someone skilled could probably knock it out in a week or two whereas it would take me months. At least then I can concentrate on the animation.

 

It will take you the most time the first time you rig something...it gets faster each time. Also, it's not always about being fast. Taking a little extra time to get it right is better than struggling with a badly rigged character.

 

My project is in danger of becoming a "Rustboy". That guy is very talented, but I haven't seen anything new on his site in a long time.

 

There is a Youtube video of the Rustboy opening sequence here where Brian Taylor states:

 

Rustboy opening sequence by Brian Taylor with music by Erik Nickerson. Originally conceived as a short-film, the movie never did see the light of day. (it was started back in 2001!) Rustboy was optioned by one of the major animation studios, who spent several years trying to give it the 'Hollywood' treatment. The option has now expired.

 

He has been busy since Rustboy with projects related to Candykiller.

 

So, utlimately, if I want this to be finished before the heat death of the universe, I may need collaborators.

 

Possibly, but what would attract good collaborators? In my mind, it would be a great looking project with a lot going for it ...which would require the ability to model, rig, texture, light, animate, write and manage a project. Or you could pay people...which might get pretty expensive.

 

We've all got our personal projects that we want to finish, so you would have to convince people to stop working on their own animation to work on yours...that is generally an uphill battle.

[Shelton]

Rigging is tough I know but I could not agree with David more. With the help and encouragement of Mark and David and looking at the rigs of the characters that Mark and David completed, I have finally gotten over the frustration of rigging , mostly, and I am starting to enjoy getting the character to move. Like David said the principles are joined. Learning to rig has taught me how to model better and understanding of the rig and how it can or can not move works in hand with animating. Yes it is tedious and yes some models have taken me forever. But my two cents get the model ready to rig, start the rigging process and post questions when you run into problems. I have never been on a forum that is as helpful as this one. Don't give up on it. I still pester Mark to death when I rig a character but the good news is each time I do it, it gets faster and each time I ask fewer questions. The rigs these guys have given to the forum are great assets to have.

 

The rear window project gave me something to strive for and I am thankful that I participated this year, and part of it was rigging a new character.

 

Any way keep going you wont regret it.

 

Steve

[Roger]

Rigging is tough I know but I could not agree with David more. With the help and encouragement of Mark and David and looking at the rigs of the characters that Mark and David completed, I have finally gotten over the frustration of rigging , mostly, and I am starting to enjoy getting the character to move. Like David said the principles are joined. Learning to rig has taught me how to model better and understanding of the rig and how it can or can not move works in hand with animating. Yes it is tedious and yes some models have taken me forever. But my two cents get the model ready to rig, start the rigging process and post questions when you run into problems. I have never been on a forum that is as helpful as this one. Don't give up on it. I still pester Mark to death when I rig a character but the good news is each time I do it, it gets faster and each time I ask fewer questions. The rigs these guys have given to the forum are great assets to have.

 

The rear window project gave me something to strive for and I am thankful that I participated this year, and part of it was rigging a new character.

 

Any way keep going you wont regret it.

 

Steve

 

Well, I may need to rethink the design of my dragon character a bit, I'm planning on using a pre-made rig, just not sure which I should use:

TSM2, Lite rig, 2008 rig, squetch rig, etc.

[itsjustme]

Well, I may need to rethink the design of my dragon character a bit, I'm planning on using a pre-made rig, just not sure which I should use:

TSM2, Lite rig, 2008 rig, squetch rig, etc.

 

For a dragon, I would suggest TSM2. There is a quad rig version of the Squetch Rig, but it needs a lot of updating to catch up with the biped version (which is in the middle of an update as well).

[Ilidrake]

I have been using tsm2 rig and have become quite good at rigging a characeter with it. Facial poses I do with mesh and poses but i can usually have a character rigged in a month.