Simon Edmondson Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I had a problem yesterday when I indadvertedly moved some bones in the rig. So today I was reinstalling the rig and working away steadily when suddenly the mesh and the rig disappeared in the model window. I reverted but the problem was still there ( or not as it were ). If I do a quick render the model appears to be there but if I try to edit the mesh or the rig nothing is visible in the appropriate window. ??? This applies in an action window as well as a model window. Can anyone please tell me what might have happened so I can avoid doing it again and get on with the rest of the work ? regards simon IMac, V15J,OSX 10.68 Eve_Blox_Toon_.mdl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 25, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 25, 2012 Well, that was scary. The model bone and Hips null "bone length" had been set from a few cm to a few light years in length. Possibly you had accidentally selected several things at once and adjusted something. try this: Eve_Blox_Toon8_mostly_fixed_.mdl Tip, when using the AM2001 rig always set "Balance Rigid", "Balance", and "Steady" to 0% and resave your character so they will be permanently set to zero and never turn them on. They only make posing the character harder. Always do that for all AM2001 characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Well, that was scary. The model bone and Hips null "bone length" had been set from a few cm to a few light years in length. Possibly you had accidentally selected several things at once and adjusted something. Rob Thank you very much. Scary is the right word. I was trying to assign the Cp's at the time and it just happened. I shall not be trying to replicate it. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Always do that for all AM2001 characters. Rob you don't appear to be a fan of the 2001 rig (?) is there one you would recommend ? regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 25, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 25, 2012 Rob you don't appear to be a fan of the 2001 rig (?) is there one you would recommend ? I prefer TSM2 for being easy to to install and having modern conveniences like a heel raiser bone and an IK spine that make it easier to pose characters. The newer AM rigs like 2010, Lite and Squetch are also much more modern than AM2001 but I'm not familiar with their workflow, so i keep using TSM2. You still have to assign and weight your CPs to your own discretion with all of those, and TSM2 does not include a scheme for rigging the face. My preference has been to roll my own face rig to suit the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Hi Simon, I'm not a fan of animating with 2001 rig either. Sadly TSM2 is not an option for us Mac people though so I can't say what its like to use. But when they're correctly installed the Literig and 2008 rig are good to animate with. There are some things I would change in both, just for my own preferences in animating, if only I had more skill with rigging but sadly I don't. It's still my least favorite task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 The newer AM rigs like 2010, Lite and Squetch are also much more modern than AM2001 but I'm not familiar with their workflow, so i keep using TSM2. I bought TSM a long time back but that was when using PC's. Is TSM2 available for the Mac? Is the 2010 rig on the CD ( as was ) or is it available on the web site. I have a few hiccups with the 2001 rig ( left forearm is rather strange ! ) but I'd thought that might be my lack of expertise at such things. The characters I'm tying to make now all use pose sliders and Muscle mode relationships, although that is a particular style I want to get. The project after next will probably involve face rigs but thats a way off yet. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 25, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 25, 2012 I forgot that you were on Mac. The TSM2 plugins don't work with the current MacOS. They work in Windows 32-bit A:M only. You can rig a character on PC with TSM2 an use it on the Mac, however. It sounds like one of the other AM rigs is a better idea for you.. There are threads here with instructions for each of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Is the 2010 rig on the CD ( as was ) or is it available on the web site. It's the 2008 rig - (looks like last updated in april 2011) and it is located here I am not sure which macs and their OS's and which A:M versions it is compatible, I am guessing it is probably compatible with them all. Mark did an excellent, detailed, accurate document getting through the installation steps. Don't let the 75+ pages scare you, the installation goes by quite quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 MarkW, Rob, Nancy Thank you for your messages. I've still got an old PC which might have TSM on I will have to retry it. The models I'm using are (as you may have noticed ) very simple so should be backwards compatible and could then be reimported. It is my intention to upgrade to V17 as soon as possible but other domestic glitches keep getting in the way. The prospect of 75 pages of instruction is a little daunting I admit. One of the good things I remember about TSM was the simplicity of it although I can't remember too much about the animating process with it after setup. i'll find out. regards Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) The prospect of 75 pages of instruction is a little daunting I admit. One of the good things I remember about TSM was the simplicity of it Like I said - please don't let that scare you. The number of the steps to install the geometry bones in either rig is pretty much the same, it's just that the 2008 manual walks you thru it in excruciating detail, giving you explicit advice on roll handles, and suggested start and end points for the bones. The majority of the 2008 manual is dealing with "scaling and fitting the skeleton". It usually has 1 instruction with 1 illustration per page (over 70 detailed illustrations). It does have some additional positioning steps for "control type" bones, nulls. Again nothing left to imagination! The 2008 rig might be more sensitive to positioning the bones in a hierarchal way than TSM, which might account for the extra detail in instructions. For example: pages 42-69 deal with scaling and fitting the hand bones (27 pages!), one page per joint! each page with an illustration! One page might be translate this bone, next page is rotate bone, next page is scale! In contrast, the TSM manual has 1 illustration for the fingers, and basically just says - scale and fit the hand bones to your geometry, and leaves you to figure out how, with some basic general instructions. Same number of bones, same number of steps for you (no pictures, so brain cells are required). Both rigs do only one side of character, then do a mirroring of bones step, both rigs require weighting of bones, and both have an Installing the control rig part step. IMO, I believe the 2008 rig is more easily tweaked after the control part is installed. A top-down overview (summary) of the 2008 rig installation process, preceding the amazing detailed instructions might help demystify the process some for the first time user. Edited May 26, 2012 by NancyGormezano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Shelton Posted May 26, 2012 *A:M User* Share Posted May 26, 2012 I would agree with Nancy on the 2008 rig. Mark did a great job of the manual and instruction. Let me tell you as someone who always put off rigging because it was hard and scary I never accomplished much other than modeling. But with the forum project as a push I jumped into rigging and have a better understanding. I used Mark's instruction and went step by step, and well I am not afraid to admit it, it took me "several" tries and Mark being a patient man that he is has always lent a hand. I pester him less and less, and the same goes for David Simmons (Squetch rig) and Holmes Bryant (lite rig) and Nancy who sent me a model as a reference. Rigging is something that has taken me a while to get me head around. But I have more confidence that I can rig something now and I will say it was Mark's instructions that got me to this point because of it being detailed. I am a visual person and if I see it I can usually understand it. The instructions are a visual tool that really helps me. I pull up the instructions every time I start on something. Anyway these guys put a lot of work into those rigs and it shows. The nice deal about any one of them is there versatility. You can add or subtract what you dont want or need or add to what you might need. As you can tell I am a big fan of theirs! So don't let the instructions steer you away Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Thank you to Nancy and Steve for their replies. I did try TSM over the weekend but I could not find my V11 CD, only the V10.5 and when I installed that again the model I wanted to try it one would not load as it was deemed an invalid file ( made in V 15j ). I tried to install TSM in the newer version but it didn't show up when I came to try it out. I'm thinking of ways around ther invalid file problem which I'll try later but it looks like 2008 may be the way to go for me. It occurred to me what may have cause the problem originally ? I use a Wacom tablet and one of the buttons on the side has a zoom function ( it didn't come with a manual so not sure which ). I may have caught that while trying to adjust the scale of the root bone and that caused the size problem Rob identified ? regards Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Just spent the afternoon working through the instructions and got to the part I was looking forward to and testing it. When I noticed a lot of the bones are missing on the left side that were there on the right side. The finger tips for example. I checked through and then it occurred to me, Is this a likely consequence of using the wrong installer rig ? I used one, then got to the end and noticed there was an OSX rig too, and guess what I'm using ? I was puzzled by the .hxt.zip at the end of the file name. Is it a case of go back and use that instead ? Pardon my lack of technical competence. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 28, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 28, 2012 a .zip is compressed file you must extract contents from to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Rob I understood the .zip part, it was the .hxt bit that puzzled me. The file de archives to the same as the Windows option but the .hxt stays as that and the Mac asks what to open it with ? Regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Pardon me, steep learning going on. I found out that .hxt is an AM plug in file ? simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Rob I understood the .zip part, it was the .hxt bit that puzzled me. The file de archives to the same as the Windows option but the .hxt stays as that and the Mac asks what to open it with ? Regards simon In windows, the zip file contains a file called Installrig.hxt (or riginstaller.hxt?) - that file is placed under the folder HXT (extensions) in the same directory in which A:M is installed, where all files with the extension .hxt live. In windows we just drag (or uncompress) that file to the folder from the zip file. We do not open it from the OS, it is a plug-in that is invoked from A:M bones window - with right click/wizards/install rig I am not familiar with the procedure that is required on a mac. Can you look in your hxt folder where A:M is installed and see if there is something there already called installrig.hxt or riginstaller.hxt (I just looked under my hxt folder for ver 16b and I have something called installrig.hxt - yet when I look in the most recent zip file I see riginstaller.hxt...confusing...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpeak2 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I supplied both a windows and mac version of the InstallRig plugin (32bit only) and a link to the MirrorBones plugin on Steffens website. If you are using v16 or v17 (maybe even v15), I believe you do not need to install these plugins, Steffen has added them to the A:M installer already. When I installed v17, I don't recall having to add the install rig plugin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Thank you very much for your reply, and all your work on the rig. I'm looking forward to using it. I found the plug in to install the rig when I followed your instructions. I wondered if there was a separate rig for OSX as opposed to the windows variant ? When I worked through the tutorial some of the bones did not appear on the left after the mirror bones section. I've just read the thread through and am now going back to make sure the model is centred and mirrored. I will restart the install process tomorrow and make sure all the bones are correctly positioned. I may not have been accurate enough today. Thank you for your time. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Welcome to the joyful world of rigging Simon! I'm always so grateful to the likes of Mark, Nancy and others here for their help and patients with us lesser mortals in this field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 Welcome to the joyful world of rigging Simon! Theres a very old coarse song about activities in the rigging which I won't quote, but it does hint at certain frustrations... I too am very grateful for the help of the people you mention and others on the forum. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 I've worked through the tutorial/instructions three times now. Each time I get past the mirror bones stage, I check... only to find that several bones are missing. Notably all the finger tips. When I read through the thread Nancy mentioned there were a couple of messages that mentioned this problem. Can anyone remember what the cure was I I may have missed that bit ? regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 30, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 30, 2012 Could you post your skeleton saved at the moment just before you run mirror bones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 Could you post your skeleton saved at the moment just before you run mirror bones? Rob Thank you for your message and offer of help. I shall try it again later. I hadn't saved sequentially but continuously. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 Eve_Blox2008_C_.mdl I deleted all the bones from the left side. Is that OK ? If not I will go back to the beginning and start again. Thank you very much. simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 30, 2012 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 30, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpeak2 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 In the 2008 rig there is a bone called "MirrorBones", this is the bone that you should be using for the mirrorbone plugin. Do not use the "Root" bone, it will mirror a few bones that should not be mirrored. Second thing, make sure your model is CFA/mirrored and use the EXACT same settings in the plugin as I did in the instructions, that includes using a capital "R" in Right and a capital "L" in Left. These two things are the biggest problem people have with installation. Using the correct settings (and snap to mirrored points on the left side) I had no problem mirroring the rig and cp assignments. The settings Robert posted are INCORRECT! Use the settings that are in the instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Second thing, make sure your model is CFA/mirrored and use the EXACT same settings in the plugin as I did in the instructions, that includes using a capital "R" in Right and a capital "L" in Left. These two things are the biggest problem people have with installation. Using the correct settings (and snap to mirrored points on the left side) I had no problem mirroring the rig and cp assignments. Mark Thank you very much for your reply. I did use the mirrorbones as per the instructions but, I didn't find the part that dealt with the capitals of the bone names in the instructions I have. Should I check those before doing the mirror operation and follow through again? regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Edmondson Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 My apologies. I'm not functioning very well at the moment due to illness. I just tried it again, but changed the capitalisation in the dialogue box that comes up when the mirror bone plug in is used. It appears to have worked this time in that the missing bones are there. Thank you very much to all those who helped. regards simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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