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Gerry

Missing Finger control in TSM

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I rigged Biff with The Setup Machine and it went fine (although I had to do it in v15) but the index finger control bone somehow got left out. I checked to see if maybe it was just hidden while the geometry bones were left unhidden, but it's simply absent. But this should be an easy fix, right? Add a control bone in the correct place, add constraints in the TSM Relationships that match the ones on the second finger and good to go?

 

I'm going to do a Save As and experiment on a copy of the model but any suggestions would be welcome in case I'm not seeing something crucial here.

MissingFingerControl.jpg

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Yes, that can be done.

 

I'd be curious about what was different with the finger that caused it to be skipped.

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So would I! I rigged him exactly the way I've done my other characters. The same bone is missing on both hands. I can still manipulate the index finger with the geometry bones but it's a bit of a hassle.

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This appears to be a little more complicated than I thought. There are other missing bones in the index finger that are present in finger 2, namely "2 right finger2 roller parent", "2 right finger2 roller", and "2 right finger2 roller compensator". These are all microscopic (all have a length of .04") and it's a little more than I want to delve into at the moment. I thought it would be a relatively easy fix but it's easier to just use the bones that are present. Just FYI.

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If you run Rigger again on your model , do "2left finger" and "2 right finger" appear in the list of things to potentially be rigged?

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Hate to say, but the best way to get this right is to rerun the TSM process... making sure all options are set right.

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Here's something to try... delete your current "2 finger" bones and import this model that has only the "2" fingers in it already rigged into your model. This will also import the relationships, which you may have to turn on separately from teh TSM relationship you have now. Or maybe not, I haven't tried.

 

drag the "dummy Hand" to be children of your models "hand". Move and scale the dummies until the geometry finger bones are aligned with your model's mesh, then delete the dummy hands. Attach your mesh to the new "2" finger bones.

 

 

TSM_2Fingers_only.mdl

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I may go back and check but when I ran the rigger the list that appeared were all major limbs and parts; no individual bones or fingers that I recall. But it was built with two fingers and a thumb from the outset so why it would include those in an "optional" list at the rigging stage is a puzzler. What I recall is that I ran the rigger twice (not on the same model version!) and the first time I looked over the list presented, but the second time I realized it was the default list for everything I wanted and just clicked OK. But my recollection is a little vague.

 

But for now I'm on to texturing and still thinking about the cape. I will say though that this model went together pretty darn quick! Discounting the few days I spent trying to get the cloth to behave, from sketch to rigged model was maybe 8-10 days or thereabouts. First roto sketch is dated 2/21, but the first version of the model is dated 2/27 so there's some unaccounted time in there it seems. I was probably futzing around with the head and torso, which presented some modeling quandaries.

 

Pretty good considering Biff wasn't even in the scene originally.

 

EDIT: oops, didn't see the last two replies.

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Here's something to try... delete your current "2 finger" bones and import this model that has only the "2" fingers in it already rigged into your model. This will also import the relationships, which you may have to turn on separately from teh TSM relationship you have now. Or maybe not, I haven't tried.

 

drag the "dummy Hand" to be children of your models "hand". Move and scale the dummies until the geometry finger bones are aligned with your model's mesh, then delete the dummy hands. Attach your mesh to the new "2" finger bones.

Okay Robert, I downloaded and I'm taking a shot on working through this, but what I need are the "1 right finger" and "1 left finger" bones, not "2". Can I just rename the ones in your model and put them in the appropriate positions? Seems like that should work.

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Haven't gotten back to this but I will and I'll let you know how it goes. I did import the first .mdl from you, and the Relationships went right into the TSM folder very nicely, so there's that. More later.

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Hey Robert, I tried your fix and it worked great! I do have another somewhat related problem, but unrelated to the finger bones fix.

 

I created a "Fan Bones Constraints" relationship to control the various fan bones I inserted. In the model, the Fan Bones Constraints are "not set" by default. But when I open the model in an action, the Fan Bone Constraints are always on. I remember reading something about this awhile back but I can't figure out how to leave them at "not set" since adding constraints to it with the new finger bones won't take, obviously, because when I go to edit the relationship, they're on by default.

 

I tried changing them to "not set" and then quitting without saving but that doesn't make any sense. Seems there's a way to do this but I can't figure it out.

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It's possible you have that relationship turned ON in another relationship that is ON by default.

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Hm, well I did a little checking and it appears the fan bones are "on" inside my head dynamic constraints relationship. So I switch it to "not set" inside that relationship, but there doesn't seem to be an option to save at that point. The model doesn't get an asterisk indicating a change has been made, so I tried a "Save as..." but the problem persists.

 

But in the model itself everything is "not set" by default.

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something has to be on somewhere

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Maybe I'll just redo the fan bones constraints. the one hangup is that the middle fan bones I added to your new finger bones are set at 100% and I can't change them to 50%. Otherwise everything looks good.

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the one hangup is that the middle fan bones I added to your new finger bones are set at 100% and I can't change them to 50%. Otherwise everything looks good.

 

You can change the enforcement, but I'm guessing that's not what you are talking about.

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Changing the enforcement is exactly the prob! I go to edit the fan bones relationship and change the enforcement of these two fan bones, but with the fan bones relationship "on" at all times, the enforcement change doesn't stay set.

 

I'm also not certain that the relationship where I thought it was on is the problem. I go through all the relationships, set the Fan Bones to "not set" in all of them, but it stays on regardless. It appears I got it to switch to "off" in some of them, but I change the enforcement and it doesn't take.

 

I'm going to go through and redo all the fan bones in a new relationship, but I have a feeling I should give it a different name than it has now.

 

EDIT: AND delete the original relationship first!

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Guess... you are doing it in the wrong window but I'd have to see you do it.

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Tried making a screen movie and in doing so I apparently was able to change the enforcement percentage, closed, quit and restarted, and though the enforcement is now at 50% where I want it, the fan splines won't deform correctly. I'm going to explore something else before I try another movie but I'll make one shortly.

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I noticed this when I was making the screen movie. Here's the three fan bones for the finger; only the second one is a problem. But I noticed in the bone names that this one has two dots and a pipe before it and I wondered what that might mean. Is it somehow outside the hierarchy? Maybe it doesn't mean anything but it got me wondering.

BoneNamingQuestion.jpg

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Okay, no need to panic, people. I deleted all the hand fan bones from the fan bones relationship and created a new one just for the hand fan bones. *Most* of the work was hinding, unhiding and rehiding all the finger bones. But everything works now.

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I guess I spoke too soon about the finger fix. When I tested, it didn't occur to me to test anything but the fingers (which worked great btw!), however once I put the model into a chor, I discovered that the rig arms somehow broke even though the fingers still work. So I went back to my original version of the model for now, but I will revisit installing the new hands again and note all the steps I take.

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