TheSpleen Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I gave the heavy push a try and failed. anyway here it is and crits and suggestions very welcome as I am trying to work on my body mechanics. heavypush4.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 nobody? I figured Robcat would remark LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 18, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 18, 2010 This will take some time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 hahahahaha I gotta learn right? or at least get a lil better at it. here is the starting choreography I plan to try push again and have him jump on it and pick it up. If nothing else my body mechanics will get at least a bit better. Can't hurt. heavystuff.cho it's just the knight and cube right from A:M libraries, nothing altered. So should be easy to load. In case anyone gets a hankerin' to perfect their skills at this as well. Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Here is a jump heavyjump2.mov looks like an old kung fu movie, like he's on a wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 no advice for the Spleen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 19, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 19, 2010 Well, an attempt to make a simple screencam crit turns into an all-day ordeal trying to figure out why my screencam doesn't work and my Quicktime doesn't work and my FTP doesn't work. anyway... Body mechanics is the thing most people trying animation get wrong. It's very hard to teach. Even AnimatonMentor hasn't figured out a magic bullet for that. When I was there students either got it or they didn't and no amount of critting seemed to change that. I've made some comments here. I couldn't' get Quicktime to re compress it so it's absurdly large (but worth every hour you'll spend downloading it ) heavy push crit It also has some sound drop outs so not every sentence will make sense. Heavy push is a complex thing, and there are many overlapping issues that make it hard to point to one thing at a time to fix. If you really want to do body mechanics you should start with "bouncing ball". Body mechanics is all about showing force and mass and inertia and bouncing ball boils that down to the just that. That's why bouncing ball is the atom of character animation that every thing else is built on. Animators who don't get bouncing ball really never get it. If you're interested maybe we could make a small curriculum of a few exercises out of it and rope in a few other people who are looking for the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 Sounds wonderful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 That had to be the best critique I have ever seen. I will try again! THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 I think that helped! newpush.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 That's why bouncing ball is the atom of character animation that every thing else is built on. Animators who don't get bouncing ball really never get it. If you're interested maybe we could make a small curriculum of a few exercises out of it and rope in a few other people who are looking for the same thing. Count me in for such exercises if it happens...I could really use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 The second attempt is so much better. The first needs much work. The velocity of the motions is unnaturally changing inbetween withour a reason, there are jumps and there is not that much weight in it. The jump is quite okay, so there is a too fast moving at the end (grap the keys for the legs and move them backwards in time while leaving the models position where it is.) At the landing, you should try to use some delay-times / show the inertia. Some stuff moves before other stuff. For example: The legs may have hitten the ground already, but the hands must got down furthermore, because the legs are just slowing the motion down but cant stop it in an instance, etc. *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Robcats critique helped alot. my second attempt was much better. I put the second on my YouTube. If I do better I will replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 20, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 20, 2010 That's why bouncing ball is the atom of character animation that every thing else is built on. Animators who don't get bouncing ball really never get it. If you're interested maybe we could make a small curriculum of a few exercises out of it and rope in a few other people who are looking for the same thing. Count me in for such exercises if it happens...I could really use it. The major thing in the way of this endeavor is that I still haven't found a screen capture workflow that works first time, every time, captures both video and audio simultaneously in the same app and doesn't need to be recompressed after it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 newpush2.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 20, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 20, 2010 That's getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Yay me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 20, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 20, 2010 Watching that has given me a small epiphany about why some things show force and others don't even though they are very similar in appearance. Now to figure out how to explain it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 21, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 21, 2010 Try this... Both of these animations start and end in the same place but which one suggests more mass and force in the movement? PushA.mov PushB.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 21, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 21, 2010 B I agree. Now comes the essay part... why does that one show mass and force better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 my eye knows. my words don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf1G1zLaHAU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fae_alba Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Try this... Both of these animations start and end in the same place but which one suggests more mass and force in the movement? PushA.mov PushB.mov B..it feels more natural, I think mostly because in A there is a pause after the blocks collide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fae_alba Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf1G1zLaHAU The knights hand placement is off to me in the beginning...they sort of float off of the cube. Me thinks if you placed the hands on the upper corners of the cube when he begins to push it would look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf1G1zLaHAU The knights hand placement is off to me in the beginning...they sort of float off of the cube. Me thinks if you placed the hands on the upper corners of the cube when he begins to push it would look better. he is meant to be using his chest to push. I guess I failed conveying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 newJump5.mov I dont see the energy generated he would need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 22, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 22, 2010 Yup, we definitely need to get you rebooted on this body mechanics stuff from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 Yup, we definitely need to get you rebooted on this body mechanics stuff from the beginning. if I can perfect my actions I will be unstoppable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeSlice Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 if I can perfect my actions I will be unstoppable. biggrin.gif Well then Spleen, let's see a Bouncing Ball animation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 FWIW that last one looked like he was being attracted magnetically to the cube. At the very least you need more of a parabolic shape to the curve of his jump. ...unless it IS a magnet. I mean, he's in a suit of armor after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 if I can perfect my actions I will be unstoppable. biggrin.gif Well then Spleen, let's see a Bouncing Ball animation that a joke? I know bouncing a ball is not easy. And I'm supposed to do it without any advice? ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 bounce.mov obviously I am trying, when yall are through enjoying my failures please help me? squash and stretch needed and did what I could with no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven547 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Count me in for any exercises! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Gene, surely there are some tutes on YouTube or Animation Mentor or somewhere. Try a little harder with the ball bounce, and show it from a side view. Ditch the spotlights while you're at it too! Just a plain stage with a ball bouncing from left to right, four or five bounces at least. EDIT: I just went over to YouTube thinking I would post a couple of links here for you and I found about 20 videos with "bouncing ball" in the title! Check some out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeSlice Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Gene, I believe you have Richard William's "The Animator's Survival Kit". There is a great section in there on the bouncing ball exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) obviously I am trying, when yall are through enjoying my failures please help me? squash and stretch needed and did what I could with no idea. I believe at one time you stated that you had "The Animators Survival Kit" by Richard Williams? (If not - you should). starting on page 36 (of my edition) is a wonderful introduction to the bouncing ball - and the concepts of spacing and timing. EDIT: Holmes beat me to it Edited July 22, 2010 by NancyGormezano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 ok will do! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 Gene, surely there are some tutes on YouTube or Animation Mentor or somewhere. Try a little harder with the ball bounce, and show it from a side view. Ditch the spotlights while you're at it too! Just a plain stage with a ball bouncing from left to right, four or five bounces at least. EDIT: I just went over to YouTube thinking I would post a couple of links here for you and I found about 20 videos with "bouncing ball" in the title! Check some out. yes I have seen them. but aren't there like rules I need to follow like diminishing bounce etc.? watching their vids looks good but I am not sure about how you keep rotation. seems like there is more to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeSlice Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 That's a nice start Gene. The main thing I notice is that a ball does not just stop like that. It has some *momentum* and will usually bounce a few times as it gradually comes to a rest. Also, it might be easier for you to judge the movement if you make it bounce from one side of the screen to the next, instead of past the camera, into the distance. Also, after the bounce in your animation, the ball does not follow a natural arc, it moves forward more than it should before it hits the ground the second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 http://www.idleworm.com/how/anm/01b/bball.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 22, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 22, 2010 For your first bouncing ball, just do a vertically bouncing ball, no left to right, no squetch, just a bouncing ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 all attempts so far came out awful. But I will get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gax_MgWPg-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkvhEKSr-ZE I think you're making things too complicated for this exercise, Gene. Follow Robert's advice: For your first bouncing ball, just do a vertically bouncing ball, no left to right, no squetch, just a bouncing ball. Start simple, then work your way up to the complex stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkvhEKSr-ZE I think you're making things too complicated for this exercise, Gene. Follow Robert's advice: For your first bouncing ball, just do a vertically bouncing ball, no left to right, no squetch, just a bouncing ball. Start simple, then work your way up to the complex stuff. I thought I did good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 23, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 23, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkvhEKSr-ZE I think you're making things too complicated for this exercise, Gene. Follow Robert's advice: For your first bouncing ball, just do a vertically bouncing ball, no left to right, no squetch, just a bouncing ball. Start simple, then work your way up to the complex stuff. I thought I did good Sorry , i didn't even see your bouncing ball clip there. That has several classic missteps in it that almost everyone does. Here's one... the ball bounces up from the ground, moves in a straight line to its peak, then moves in a straight line down again to the ground. A real bouncing ball will never glide in a straight line like that. Watching this I can see the fundamental problem, you're either not using the curve editor or not using it right. That's another reason we start with Bouncing ball, because it's a chance to start using the curve editor (there's no way to really do the exercise without getting into the curve editor) with the fewest other complicating factors. When i get some other A:M things behind me ( I have a freelance job that needs to get going, I need to get the forum project started, I need do edits on TWO, I need to do stuff for SO) I can look at putting some lessons together on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 bounce9.mov bounce10.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpleen Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 how do you use curve editor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted July 23, 2010 Hash Fellow Share Posted July 23, 2010 how do you use curve editor? Have you watched my "Making things stay in place" video? There's a small discussion of the curve editor there. link in my signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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