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TheSpleen

rig compendium

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can I please get a list of available rigs with opinions on each and pros and cons?

I plan to try to master installing and using just one rig and would like to know what each one offers.

Thanks.

Gene

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What have you been using?

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I would say the Squetch Rig and the 2008 Rig have the most features, and the support from the creators is better :) But they are more difficult to install. I'm not sure of the differences between the two.

TSM is the easiest to install, but it is not easy to modify and has no face rig. So you are on your own as far as figuring out how to install one of the available face rigs.

The LiteRig is fairly easy to install, and is much easier to modify and add things, so it is more flexible from a "Do It Yourself" perspective. It has fewer bones (by an order of magnitude) than any of the others, but it is heavily dependant on proper CP weighting. There is also a LiteFace face rig that integrates with it pretty well.

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What have you been using?

I make my own and they are the pits, thats why my characters lack some movement.

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What have you been using?

I make my own and they are the pits, thats why my characters lack some movement.

 

Ouch! I'm impressed you got anything done at all!

 

If you're on a PC I recommend trying TSM2 just to give it a whirl. It's easy enough that trying it won't be a major investment of time that will stop you from trying any other rig later.

 

It's got a manual. Read that and follow the directions.

 

You still have to fit the bones to your model just like all the other rigs. You still have to weight your CPs to bones just like with all the other rigs.

 

But if you want to get a body moving, TSM2 is the fastest way to get it going.

 

It doesn't do anything for the face. Either roll your own or borrow the process from some other rig.

 

If you get stuck... ask!

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Last time I tried TSM2 with A:M15i it produced some errors. I'm not sure if later updates of A:M fixed these problems. Is anyone using TSM2 with the last A:M update?

It still works well with A:M14.

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The differences between the 2008 Rig and the Squetch Rig are that the Squetch Rig can bow the limbs, squash and stretch every joint, bend the limbs backward in both FK and IK (biped only at the moment in IK), has "soft IK" on the limbs (biped only at the moment) and a built-in face rig (although Mark also has a face rig for the 2008 Rig, but I don't think he's made an installer for it yet).

 

I have attached a ZIP containing both an OpenOffice and Excel formatted charts that compare TSM2, LiteRig, 2008 Rig and Squetch Rig. There are more differences, I'm sure, but I think that's a decent cross-section of those rigs. If I got any information wrong, let me know and I'll correct this post.

 

I think that both LiteFace and the face rig add-on for the Squetch Rig will work in any rig and there is also the option of The Face Gizmo.

 

As far as ease of installation, Holmes' assessment is accurate:

 

I would say the Squetch Rig and the 2008 Rig have the most features, and the support from the creators is better smile.gif But they are more difficult to install. I'm not sure of the differences between the two.

TSM is the easiest to install, but it is not easy to modify and has no face rig. So you are on your own as far as figuring out how to install one of the available face rigs.

The LiteRig is fairly easy to install, and is much easier to modify and add things, so it is more flexible from a "Do It Yourself" perspective. It has fewer bones (by an order of magnitude) than any of the others, but it is heavily dependant on proper CP weighting. There is also a LiteFace face rig that integrates with it pretty well.

 

Hope that helps, Gene.

 

 

 

-------------------------------

EDIT

-------------------------------

 

I have updated the chart to correct an inaccurate sentence in the LiteRig description. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Rig_comparison_07_09_2010.zip

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TSM is the easiest to install, but it is not easy to modify

 

What does that mean? What modification is harder to make on TSM2?

 

 

 

 

Last time I tried TSM2 with A:M15i it produced some errors. I'm not sure if later updates of A:M fixed these problems. Is anyone using TSM2 with the last A:M update?

It still works well with A:M14.

 

Last time that came up we decided it worked fine.

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What does that mean? What modification is harder to make on TSM2?

That means doing anything that doesn't have a push-button solution.

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The differences between the 2008 Rig and the Squetch Rig are that the Squetch Rig can bow the limbs, squash and stretch every joint, bend the limbs backward in both FK and IK (biped only at the moment in IK), has "soft IK" on the limbs (biped only at the moment) and a built-in face rig (although Mark also has a face rig for the 2008 Rig, but I don't think he's made an installer for it yet).

 

I have attached a ZIP containing both an OpenOffice and Excel formatted charts that compare TSM2, LiteRig, 2008 Rig and Squetch Rig. There are more differences, I'm sure, but I think that's a decent cross-section of those rigs. If I got any information wrong, let me know and I'll correct this post.

 

I think that both LiteFace and the face rig add-on for the Squetch Rig will work in any rig and there is also the option of The Face Gizmo.

 

As far as ease of installation, Holmes' assessment is accurate:

 

I would say the Squetch Rig and the 2008 Rig have the most features, and the support from the creators is better smile.gif But they are more difficult to install. I'm not sure of the differences between the two.

TSM is the easiest to install, but it is not easy to modify and has no face rig. So you are on your own as far as figuring out how to install one of the available face rigs.

The LiteRig is fairly easy to install, and is much easier to modify and add things, so it is more flexible from a "Do It Yourself" perspective. It has fewer bones (by an order of magnitude) than any of the others, but it is heavily dependant on proper CP weighting. There is also a LiteFace face rig that integrates with it pretty well.

 

Hope that helps, Gene.

Thank you for that chart!

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What does that mean? What modification is harder to make on TSM2?

That means doing anything that doesn't have a push-button solution.

 

 

But it does have a lot of push-button solutions!

 

 

Hey, Gene... try something else first then try TSM2 second.

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Response from A:M Reports regarding TSM2 errors that I reported some time back:

 

Can't be fixed , because Hash has no rights or the source from TSM

 

The errors were being generated when translating or scaling bones in Builder.

 

That means that TSM2 is now out of the equation regarding rigs that will be compatible with A:M 15 and up... unless you can show that it still works, Robcat. ;)

That is a great shame for new A:M users but if you have A:M14, (and probably previous versions), you can still use TSM2, save your rigged models from A:M14 and then open them in A:M15. They will function correctly. :)

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The errors were being generated when translating or scaling bones in Builder.

 

That means that TSM2 is now out of the equation regarding rigs that will be compatible with A:M 15 and up... unless you can show that it still works, Robcat. ;)

 

 

My V15 is expired right now so i can't test it, but I know I was using it with V15...

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so everyone likes different rigs?

 

Yep. That pretty much sums it up.

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so everyone likes different rigs?

 

Yessir. There are different flavors of ice cream too. They're all good, but everyone has their favorite. Each rig is a trade-off somewhere, it just depends on what you like or need.

 

The easiest to install of the ones I charted would be TSM2...and it should work in v15. It's a very cool rig and makes adding extra limbs, wings, tails, etc very easy. The drawbacks on that rig is that it doesn't have an FK/IK switch built into it, since it was made before that existed...although Mark Skodacek was working on adding that (I'm not sure where that stands at the moment). Also, it doesn't have a built-in face rig...you could use LiteFace, the face rig add-on for the Squetch Rig or The Face Gizmo with it though.

 

The LiteRig would be the next easiest to install. It doesn't have a built-in face rig, but LiteFace can be easily added. The legs are IK only, so if that's a deal-breaker, it's not the rig to use.

 

The 2008 Rig would be the next up the installation difficulty chain. It's a solid rig that was meant to be an upgraded 2001 Rig...it's a lot better than a minor upgrade though. This rig doesn't have a built-in face rig, but Mark was working on one that I don't think has an installer yet. You could use LiteFace, the face rig add-on for the Squetch Rig or The Face Gizmo as alternatives. If not having built-in squetching abilities is a deal-breaker, it's not the rig to use.

 

The Squetch Rig is the most difficult to install of the bunch. It's a "kitchen-sink" approach to character rigging...anything that could be crammed into the frame that might be valuable is in there (some would say too many things). If you are new to character rigging, it's not the rig to install.

 

Hope that helps.

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Tsm2 seems the way to go then.

The Squelch rig sounds the best, An experts only type rig though.

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The experience I have with bones already will make adding anything a walk in the park.

ie: face rig or 3rd arm

LOL

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The LiteRig would be the next easiest to install. It doesn't have a built-in face rig, but LiteFace can be easily added. The legs are IK only, so if that's a deal-breaker, it's not the rig to use.

 

I believe legs can be either IK or FK, last I looked (and last model I installed has it).

 

IMO, the Literig is the easiest to understand from an outsiders point of view. By outsider, I mean someone who didn't develop the rig.

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The LiteRig would be the next easiest to install. It doesn't have a built-in face rig, but LiteFace can be easily added. The legs are IK only, so if that's a deal-breaker, it's not the rig to use.

 

I believe legs can be either IK or FK, last I looked (and last model I installed has it).

 

IMO, the Literig is the easiest to understand from an outsiders point of view. By outsider, I mean someone who didn't develop the rig.

 

I'll double-check tonight...I may have missed that. I'll check and then update my posts if I am mistaken. Thanks, Nancy!

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The legs are IK only, so if that's a deal-breaker, it's not the rig to use.

I believe legs can be either IK or FK, last I looked (and last model I installed has it).

Sorry for the late post. Yes the legs in the LiteRig can be either IK or FK. The switch is hidden in User Properties > Rigging. The reason I put the switch in there is because in three years of animating at least a little bit every week, I have never used FK legs ... but it's there, just in case.

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The legs are IK only, so if that's a deal-breaker, it's not the rig to use.

I believe legs can be either IK or FK, last I looked (and last model I installed has it).

Sorry for the late post. Yes the legs in the LiteRig can be either IK or FK. The switch is hidden in User Properties > Rigging. The reason I put the switch in there is because in three years of animating at least a little bit every week, I have never used FK legs ... but it's there, just in case.

 

I downloaded the latest RobbyLite model and the IK legs are in there...I had an older version of the rig on my drive. I must have grabbed it while the rig was still in development and didn't keep up. Sorry about the inaccurate information, I'll update my previous posts to prevent confusion in the future. Thanks, Holmes!

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Gene, I believe you can download sample rigged characters from all the major rigs. Download them and do some quick animations with them to see how the rigs feel. My characters have mixed rigs, since many of the early ones were converted to the the TSM2 rig, but the newer ones use the 2008 Rig. I'm familiar enough with them for that not to be a problem, but I have heard folks say that it's better to stick with one rig (which would make sense for re-using Actions).

 

Prior to those, I had rigged a few of the characters from scratch (basically following the steps from Barry Z.'s tutorials). I have no idea how many times Flemm was rigged before the final version. :-)

 

For me, the most complicated part is CP Weighting, which you'll need to do no matter what rig you use. I believe Will Sutton put up his CP weighting video on YouTube. It was very helpful to me.

 

My hats are off to the folks creating these rigs.

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I've been using TSM with v15 and not had any major probs. I did experience some weirdness when rigging Midge I think, but it worked fine rigging Odyl. Not sure what the cause was, but with Midge I would open the prj in v13 and keep working. I detailed the problems in a thread somewhere, not sure if it was the rigging forum or in Nightcallers, but I'll see if I can find it.

 

however the problems did not reoccur with Odyl, but I was super-conscientious about following the steps.

 

EDIT: here's the thread: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38025

But as I said, the problem never returned.

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Inverse Kinematics and Forward Kinematics.

 

Simply, think of the hand. If you wanted the hand to be on top of the character's hand:

 

With IK, you would position the hand there, and the forearm and bicep would move to match.

 

With FK, you would move the bicep up, then the forearm up and then then hand.

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You folks are a wealth of knowledge.

Thanks.

can someone aim me at a TSM2 tut?

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can someone aim me at a TSM2 tut?

 

The manual for TSM2 is in the TSM2 folder that gets installed. Read that first. Do that first. Install the rig in their sample generic character before you try anything else. Don't try to skip the workflow they give you.

 

then if you have questions ask. And there's a TSM2 forum for that here!

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I believe it is the 2001 rig - the same one that is described in the TAOA:M manual (exercise 13: show some backbone)

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