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Hi Remy - looking good - One thing I notice is that you have lots of places where more than 2 splines meet/cross - Those places will cause peaking/creasing. In A:M you will have to use 5 pt patches instead to minimize that. There are some restrictions (creasing wise) of using them in combo with hooks, etc - but here's a general diagram for converting.

Smurf2red.jpg

5patch2.jpg

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that's great. Can you explain me exactly what to do to get a 5 cps patch?

Thanks for your help

 

 

Hi Remy - looking good - One thing I notice is that you have lots of places where more than 2 splines meet/cross - Those places will cause peaking/creasing. In A:M you will have to use 5 pt patches instead to minimize that. There are some restrictions (creasing wise) of using them in combo with hooks, etc - but here's a general diagram for converting.

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that's great. Can you explain me exactly what to do to get a 5 cps patch?

 

I'll jump in - in hope to save somebody some time :)

 

Generally, you have to select the five cps that make up the patch and then click the "make five point patch" icon (lower end of the modelling toolbar, the pentagon shape)

The problem is that there are a number of internal rules before a five point patch can be formed and the icon will only turn active when the selected five cps meet all the expectations of A:M - Personally I had the best results when selecting not only the cps but als the splines in order - i.e. click not only on the cp but on the spline next to it - the cp turns green and the spline will also be highlighted. Then hold the shift-key and do the same for all the other patches in order. That's how it works for me 97% of the times.

 

Greetings,

Roman

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Ok, it's crystal clear and simple, thank you

 

 

that's great. Can you explain me exactly what to do to get a 5 cps patch?

 

I'll jump in - in hope to save somebody some time :)

 

Generally, you have to select the five cps that make up the patch and then click the "make five point patch" icon (lower end of the modelling toolbar, the pentagon shape)

The problem is that there are a number of internal rules before a five point patch can be formed and the icon will only turn active when the selected five cps meet all the expectations of A:M - Personally I had the best results when selecting not only the cps but als the splines in order - i.e. click not only on the cp but on the spline next to it - the cp turns green and the spline will also be highlighted. Then hold the shift-key and do the same for all the other patches in order. That's how it works for me 97% of the times.

 

Greetings,

Roman

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that's great. Can you explain me exactly what to do to get a 5 cps patch?

 

After you've selected the 5 cps that make the 5 pt patch - the green "donut" tool should light up/become active - click that button.

 

However, sometimes the donut doesn't light up (for some unknown reason) - in that case there are steps to try to force it to show:

 

1) select the 5 cps, hit "." to select the other cps, then hit "." again to reselect the 5 cps (donut should light up),

 

if not, then

 

2) select 5 cps - hit "hide" so that only the 5 cps are left showing. Reselect the 5 cps. Donut should show.

 

if not, then

 

3) then there is probably something funny with the 5 cps and the splines, - sometimes, but not often - and you don't think the splines are wrong - save/close the model and reopen and reselect.

 

if not, then

 

4) respline the area. last resort.

make5ptpatch.jpg

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One more solution for selecting the five points is to position the model so you can "lasso" just the five points. that will sometimes activate the 5-point patch tool when shift-selecting the 5 cp's separately doesn't.

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One more solution for selecting the five points is to position the model so you can "lasso" just the five points. that will sometimes activate the 5-point patch tool when shift-selecting the 5 cp's separately doesn't.

I find lassoing them works almost everytime

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I think that selecting point has something to do with clocwise and unclockwise. When the 5 selcted points are visible after having hidden the rest of the model, if you select from the number one point using clockwise direction and repeat the selection starting from the point number two an so on, you will perhaps have a result. Than you start unclockwise fron the number one, after from the number two and so on, you will everytime get a solution. But I did'nt found the rule! Perhaps will somebody find it?

 

One more solution for selecting the five points is to position the model so you can "lasso" just the five points. that will sometimes activate the 5-point patch tool when shift-selecting the 5 cp's separately doesn't.

I find lassoing them works almost everytime

post-13012-1272448942_thumb.jpg

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Hello

 

Going on with the smurf, I got some problems. I found,I think by myself the way to applie the rabbit"s skeleton on the smurf. But I habe somes problems I don't find the solution.

When creating a new action some poses of the smurf are uncorrect:

- the head and the neck are bending forwards

- I cannot understand what to do with the eyes

- the mouth position is uncorrect to.

 

Can somebody help me?

 

Remy

Smurf_08.prj

post-13012-1272707518_thumb.jpg

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Hello

 

Going on with the smurf, I got some problems. I found,I think by myself the way to applie the rabbit"s skeleton on the smurf. But I habe somes problems I don't find the solution.

When creating a new action some poses of the smurf are uncorrect:

- the head and the neck are bending forwards

- I cannot understand what to do with the eyes

- the mouth position is uncorrect to.

 

Can somebody help me?

 

Remy

 

The Smurf model wasn't embedded in the Project, so I couldn't check it for you, Remy. If you use "Project/Embed all" and then save the Project, the model should be included.

 

If you are trying to use the rig that is in the Rabbit, it is the 2001 rig. Instructions for installing it are in the "Show Some Backbone" video on this page.

 

Hope that helps.

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Sorry, I thougt the model was autimatically embedded in the porject. So, it's better to send the mdl file only, isn't?

her eis the smurf.mdl

 

Hello

 

Going on with the smurf, I got some problems. I found,I think by myself the way to applie the rabbit"s skeleton on the smurf. But I habe somes problems I don't find the solution.

When creating a new action some poses of the smurf are uncorrect:

- the head and the neck are bending forwards

- I cannot understand what to do with the eyes

- the mouth position is uncorrect to.

 

Can somebody help me?

 

Remy

 

The Smurf model wasn't embedded in the Project, so I couldn't check it for you, Remy. If you use "Project/Embed all" and then save the Project, the model should be included.

 

If you are trying to use the rig that is in the Rabbit, it is the 2001 rig. Instructions for installing it are in the "Show Some Backbone" video on this page.

 

Hope that helps.

Smurf.mdl

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Here is a image of the first action trial for the smurf. As you can see, the things I was explaining above are not correct, by sample the eyes. I really need help!!!

post-13012-1272723884_thumb.jpg

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I really nedd help. During this week-end I did'nt found the solution by myself.

 

Please, can somebody answer?

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There's a lot mixed up there.

 

In the Eye Constraints pose there are keys that move the eye bones out of the head. I'm guessing you didn't intend that, but they are there. Describe more what you intended the eye constraints to do.

 

It's hard to figure out what's going where. For example, if i move the left eye open close slider his right arm moves.

 

Is this the AM2001 rig? Did you install it by following the directions in TAoA:M?

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I really nedd help. During this week-end I did'nt found the solution by myself.

 

Please, can somebody answer?

 

First, there are a lot of problems with the modeling that need to be taken care of...non-continuous splines, dead-end splines, flipped normals, each joint not defined by three spline rings. In general, the modeling isn't really ready to be rigged...I have attached an image with a few of the problems marked.

 

There are some great modeling tutorials here, here, here, here and here.

 

Second, the 2001 Rig installation instructions are here.

 

Hope that helps, Remy.

smurf_problems.png

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Hi Robcat

 

I obtained the skeleton using that way:

I opened the rabbit as model, deleted the mesh, and imported the smurf mesh, thand applied the bones on the smurf.

I think it's a lazy way and surely uncorrect!

The hands of the smurf are the rabbit's hands.

The eyes are 2 shperes I scaled and rotated. You are right, they are surely bounded with the arm constraint. In the model I don't see the crosses of the arms. Where are them?

So, can you explain me the right way?

I thank you for yoiur help

 

Remy

 

There's a lot mixed up there.

 

In the Eye Constraints pose there are keys that move the eye bones out of the head. I'm guessing you didn't intend that, but they are there. Describe more what you intended the eye constraints to do.

 

It's hard to figure out what's going where. For example, if i move the left eye open close slider his right arm moves.

 

Is this the AM2001 rig? Did you install it by following the directions in TAoA:M?

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Ok.

But I don't really understand the rule whe 3 splines are joining together. What is right to do?

 

 

I really nedd help. During this week-end I did'nt found the solution by myself.

 

Please, can somebody answer?

 

First, there are a lot of problems with the modeling that need to be taken care of...non-continuous splines, dead-end splines, flipped normals, each joint not defined by three spline rings. In general, the modeling isn't really ready to be rigged...I have attached an image with a few of the problems marked.

 

There are some great modeling tutorials here, here, here, here and here.

 

Second, the 2001 Rig installation instructions are here.

 

Hope that helps, Remy.

post-13012-1272876483_thumb.jpg

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I obtained the skeleton using that way:

I opened the rabbit as model, deleted the mesh, and imported the smurf mesh, thand applied the bones on the smurf.

I think it's a lazy way and surely uncorrect!

 

You're right... that's wrong. :o

 

Follow the directions in TAoA:M Chapter 13

 

There's also a video version

 

 

Get that much going right, then it will be easier to find what else may be wrong.

 

 

Have you done the modeling tutorials in TAoA:M, chapters 8-11? Those get you started the right way.

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Ok.

But I don't really understand the rule whe 3 splines are joining together. What is right to do?

 

 

I really nedd help. During this week-end I did'nt found the solution by myself.

 

Please, can somebody answer?

 

First, there are a lot of problems with the modeling that need to be taken care of...non-continuous splines, dead-end splines, flipped normals, each joint not defined by three spline rings. In general, the modeling isn't really ready to be rigged...I have attached an image with a few of the problems marked.

 

There are some great modeling tutorials here, here, here, here and here.

 

Second, the 2001 Rig installation instructions are here.

 

Hope that helps, Remy.

 

Watch the tutorials I listed, they should answer your questions. If they don't, I can recommend a few other tutorials.

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Hello

 

I have been watching the tutorials, it helps fine. But, looking better on the rabbit's hand I copied in the smurf model, I discovered that some polygons are 6 points patches as you can see on the image. In fact, there are no points on the "main" transverse spline (see the yellow arrow) I obtained the same relsult by rightclick nearby the transverse spline. It does'nt create a point, only the attached spline has a point I can detech but not move. This solution does'nt cause creases. I think. How do you call this intersection and is it a correct way?

Thansks for your help.

 

Remy

 

Ok.

But I don't really understand the rule whe 3 splines are joining together. What is right to do?

 

 

I really nedd help. During this week-end I did'nt found the solution by myself.

 

Please, can somebody answer?

 

First, there are a lot of problems with the modeling that need to be taken care of...non-continuous splines, dead-end splines, flipped normals, each joint not defined by three spline rings. In general, the modeling isn't really ready to be rigged...I have attached an image with a few of the problems marked.

 

There are some great modeling tutorials here, here, here, here and here.

 

Second, the 2001 Rig installation instructions are here.

 

Hope that helps, Remy.

 

Watch the tutorials I listed, they should answer your questions. If they don't, I can recommend a few other tutorials.

post-13012-1273048153_thumb.jpg

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What you are seeing there isn't a six CP patch but rather a special case (rather unique to Animation:Master).

In order to transition from more dense meshes to less dense meshes we can attach a dangling spline referred to as a 'hook'.

 

The tutorial from the manual on making a Giraffe covers that in detail as I recall.

Edit: The manual I just checked in has a write up on Hooks on page 128.

 

You mention that you are watching the video tutorials but also make sure you download the PDF manual and technical reference.

You can find them here:

 

http://www.hash.com/reference.htm

 

To answer your question... yes you are free to use them but don't use them if you don't need them.

Ideally you want to keep patches approximately the same size with four Control Points each.

5 point patches and hooks can be used where that cannot be accomplished.

The main reason to use hooks is to reduce a meshes desity.

 

The cautionary note on page 128 states: "Avoid attaching hooks to a spline that makes up a five point patch! Or multiple five point patches next to each other!"

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Hello

 

Here is a new version of the smurf. I corrected all the mistakes of the previous versions, I hope!

Is this guy ready for rigging?

I thank your for your answers

 

Remy

post-13012-1273336005_thumb.jpg

Smurf.mdl

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That looks much improved.

 

I might suggest spacing the 3-ring s at the elbows and knees a little bit farther from each other so the two outside ones don't overlap when the joint bends.

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Hello

 

Here is a new version of the smurf. I corrected all the mistakes of the previous versions, I hope!

Is this guy ready for rigging?

I thank your for your answers

 

Remy

 

He's looking better, but there are still plenty of things to improve upon. First, as Robert mentioned, the elbow spline rings could be more separated. Then, I would add a couple of rings at the wrists, a ring between the elbow and wrist, a ring between the shoulder and elbow, possibly a ring on the thigh and possibly a ring on the calf.

 

You will want to re-work the face if you are going to do any animation. The mouth would work better with a couple of concentric rings...this video might help. You can also look at some characters from TWO if they are available, or you could look at a few things on Squetchy Sam...the latest version is in this post. Most of Sam isn't too bad, but the hands aren't something I would recommend copying...he was made to use as few splines as possible. The best hands I've done are on Bertram...there are some images of them are in this post.

 

The feet will need some re-working if they are going to bend at the toes...for every place that bends, three spline rings are generally helpful. I've also attached an image pointing at a couple of things I saw on the Smurf.

 

Hope that helps, Remy.

smurf_splines.png

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Ok, there is only one way to improve a model: work and work...

I now really think that a perfect model does'nt exist!

 

Cheers

 

Remy

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I now really think that a perfect model does'nt exist!

 

tres vrai, tres vrai !

 

But your smurf is improving quite nicely!

 

One other thing that I would add is that it is generally better to model the mouth in a neutral position (neither smiling, nor frowning) for purposes of rigging and facial animation - it's then usually easier to get a wider range of mouth expressions

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hello

 

I have a new question about mirror mode.

I think when moving a point in mirror mode, the symetrical point moves to.

But when deleting a point, or by sample ctreating a 5 point patch, mirroring does'nt work.

What is the best method to get an easy symetry? Is it possible to copy the xyz position of a point and paste it in one shot?

 

Remy

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I would recommend after you have finished your model to delete one half and

to cfa = copy flip attach again according to my minitut from a while ago here:

 

"Homeslice please allow me to go a little bit more in deep at this point,

since I had a lot of difficulties here as well.

 

( I think, it`s a major flaw of the AM:Tut , that this aspect isn`t stressed enough!)

 

-name your group "right half"

 

(It is a little faster to:)

-select all the center CPs ( comma click the centerspline(s) , that way you will see, if it`s continous )

 

-set the group's X Pivot property to 0 ( activate "translate" or "scale"-button with "show properties"-button on )(then set x pivot to 0 )

 

-set the group's X Scale property to 0

 

Now all selected CPs are at 0 along the X axis.

 

- select one of the cp`s on the centerspline and shift/select the rest of your model ( that way you force AM to cfa around the x-axis

 

- right click and copy/flip attatch

 

- delete group "right half2" and use Plugin > "merge and perge groups" von Steffen to get rid of all the double groups

 

- activate "mirror mode"-button and select your "right half" group and drag it around to test, if everything works absolut symetrical.

 

(Many times you will have to repair minor faults, attatching a spline, reattatching a hook near the centerspline, closing a five point patch etc.)

 

WITH A NONSYMETRICAL MODEL YOU MAY RUN INTO MANY PROBLEMS WITH RIGGING AND ANIMATING LATERON."

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I would recommend after you have finished your model to delete one half and

to cfa = copy flip attach again according to my minitut from a while ago here:

 

"Homeslice please allow me to go a little bit more in deep at this point,

since I had a lot of difficulties here as well.

 

( I think, it`s a major flaw of the AM:Tut , that this aspect isn`t stressed enough!)

 

-name your group "right half"

 

What have I to do here: the smurf has already some groups. Have I to delete them and create a new one?

 

(It is a little faster to:)

-select all the center CPs ( comma click the centerspline(s) , that way you will see, if it`s continous )

 

-set the group's X Pivot property to 0 ( activate "translate" or "scale"-button with "show properties"-button on )(then set x pivot to 0 )

 

-set the group's X Scale property to 0

 

Now all selected CPs are at 0 along the X axis.

 

- select one of the cp`s on the centerspline and shift/select the rest of your model ( that way you force AM to cfa around the x-axis

 

- right click and copy/flip attatch

 

- delete group "right half2" and use Plugin > "merge and perge groups" von Steffen to get rid of all the double groups

 

I don't see this plugin in the list? where can I download it and what have I to do to install?

 

- activate "mirror mode"-button and select your "right half" group and drag it around to test, if everything works absolut symetrical.

 

(Many times you will have to repair minor faults, attatching a spline, reattatching a hook near the centerspline, closing a five point patch etc.)

 

WITH A NONSYMETRICAL MODEL YOU MAY RUN INTO MANY PROBLEMS WITH RIGGING AND ANIMATING LATERON."

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Sorry for the previous anwser. I did'nt use bb code!

 

-name your group "right half"

 

What have I to do here: the smurf has already some groups. Have I to delete them and create a new one?

 

- delete group "right half2" and use Plugin > "merge and perge groups" von Steffen to get rid of all the double groups

I don't see this plugin in the list? where can I download it and what have I to do to install?

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>What have I to do here: the smurf has already some groups. Have I to delete them and create a new one?

 

 

 

Plugin and description of merge and purge groups is here:

 

 

http://www.sgross.com/plugins/index.html

 

 

but maybe it`s already part of version 15

just rightclick on your modelsname in the pws and see, if it comes up.

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Hello

 

1 - Does'it exist a method to move a group using only one selected point and set it at a xyz coordinaite?

2 - Is ist possible to align some selected points only on one coordinate, by sample select points and move them to x=0?

 

Remy

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1 - Does'it exist a method to move a group using only one selected point and set it at a xyz coordinaite?

 

I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'll try to answer. You can select a named group of points and then translate them using the "Properties".

 

 

2 - Is ist possible to align some selected points only on one coordinate, by sample select points and move them to x=0?

 

You can select the points you want to align and then scale them in the "Properties" to 0% on the axis you want, in this case the 'X' axis, then you can translate them in the "Properties" of the selected group to where you want them.

 

Hope that helps, Remy.

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Thanks Itjustmen this helps.

 

Here is the last update of my smurf. Hope modeling is complete and I would start rigging!

 

Remy

post-13012-1273663425_thumb.jpg

post-13012-1273663443_thumb.jpg

Smurf.mdl

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There are several places that I think will cause you problems, Remy. The face could use some re-routing of splines and some spline reduction. For the mouth, I think you should use some concentric rings. I included an image if Bertram's mouth showing the concentric rings and circled a place on the Smurf mouth that is definitely not the way to go. The hands bother me as well...I think I see where you were going, but I think you have too many hooks in the palm that will cause creasing.

 

He's getting better with every update, lots of progress.

mouth_splines.png

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The hands bother me as well...I think I see where you were going, but I think you have too many hooks in the palm that will cause creasing.

 

Hello

 

I'm coming back, I was out. Here is a new half smurf. I do'nt understand the problems with the hands and the palm. My smurf hands are the Rabbit's hands!!! Do you mean the Rabbit is not a good model??? This is strange.

I'm joking of course. Can you say me if I'm now ready to start rigging.

 

Remy

post-13012-1274691843_thumb.jpg

Demi_Smurf.mdl

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The hands bother me as well...I think I see where you were going, but I think you have too many hooks in the palm that will cause creasing.

 

Hello

 

I'm coming back, I was out. Here is a new half smurf. I do'nt understand the problems with the hands and the palm. My smurf hands are the Rabbit's hands!!! Do you mean the Rabbit is not a good model??? This is strange.

I'm joking of course. Can you say me if I'm now ready to start rigging.

 

Remy

 

I didn't have a lot of time, so I just did a quick re-working of the palm as an illustration...I would still do a lot more to the fingers though and some more tweaking to the base of the hand. There was a lot of unnecessary bias tweaking, a couple of dead-end splines and was kind of spline-heavy in the palm area.

 

It's a lot closer...and you could rig him, but there would still be areas that would create some obstacles. Of course, that is just my opinion...you might be satisfied with the results.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------------------------

EDIT

-------------------------------------

 

Colin Freeman has some tutorials that you might find helpful here (free). Barry Zundel also has some tutorials located here...he recently reduced the prices on them.

wire_hand_example.png

final_hand_example.png

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Hello

 

Back with my kind smurf. I started rigging with the 2001 skeleton. I did'nt work for instant on the hands, only on the rest of the body. When starting an action, I obtain a strange position with the right arm. I the pose sliders menu, I swithed ON at the Rig tab to IK arms setup like in the "show some backbones" tutorial. The right hand does'nt move to the cross.

Another thing: the elbows does'nt bend when moving the cross. And perhaps more critics about the right position of the bones?

 

Help please....

 

Remy

post-13012-1275493410_thumb.jpg

Smurf.mdl

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Back with my kind smurf. I started rigging with the 2001 skeleton.

 

First just to make sure we're on the same page... did you use the directions in TAoA:M where they show how to rig Thom?

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First just to make sure we're on the same page... did you use the directions in TAoA:M where they show how to rig Thom?

 

I used the video manual, exercise 13 Show some backbone with Thom.

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I'm not an expert on this rig but I think you have it mostly correct.

 

If you want to use IK arms drop your character in a chor or action, then set the "IK arms setup" pose ON.

 

THEN... in the PWS, delete the channel for "right forearm" that was created in the action. The right arm should then pop to follow the right arm target.

 

 

There's probably something wrong that is making the right arm do that and not the left, but I'm not sure what it s.

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When running through TaoA:M a couple of years ago (Wow! That long ago!) I remember that same problem happening with Thom during that "lesson".

 

I believe that it was inherently something in the 2001 rig. I posted on the forum and the most predominate reply was to try the Squetchy Sam rig and the 2008 rig when finished. the 2008 rig is now finished, Thanks Mark, and used quite often.

 

As far as I know, the available rigs are: Squetchy Sam rig, 2008 Rig, Holmes' Lite Rig, and Anzovin's TSM. From my observation the most commonly used rigs lately are the Lite Rig and The 2008 Rig.

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I don't have much time tonight, so I won't post a model update this evening. I started by looking at the legs...there were a few bones out of place. I'm assuming there are some similar problems with the arms. Even if you get the 2001 Rig installed correctly, it has some glaring problems with versions of A:M that use constraint "baking"...which is anything later than v12. My advice would be to use either the 2008 Rig, LiteRig or TSM2, Remy.

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My advice would be to use either the 2008 Rig, LiteRig or TSM2, Remy.

Thank you. Where can I find those nice skeletons to download?

 

Bests regards

 

Remy

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The 2008 Rig is here.

 

The LiteRig is here.

 

TSM2 is here.

 

 

If you have any questions, there are several people on the forums that will be able to provide answers. Good luck with the installation, Remy!

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Hello

 

I'm back with my smurf. Following the last answer of Itjustme, I tried some skeletons. I think now, after many and many difficulties with the 2008 rig, that the literig is suffisant for a beginner.

So I downloaded the literig. But I discoverd it was not the same as the robbylite rig. This one seems more complete than the literig.

I decided to do the following steps. First, import Robby, then delet the mesh and after save the rig under a new name.

I applied this model on the smurf and begun to place and scale the bones. I send you today the result. I did'nt yet affect the control points to the bones. The hands are not finished.

Can you say me if I'm on the right way?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Remy

Smurf_Rig.mdl

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Can you say me if I'm on the right way?

No.

You should follow the installation instructions for the LightRig here:

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?act=a...st&id=41298

 

And you should read through the threads here:

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showforum=170

Most likely your questions are already answered in those threads.

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