itsjustme Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thanks to some help from Sebastian Pfeifer, I think the interface for the Squetch Rig tutorials is set. Some of the buttons have gray placeholder images for now and the video links go to the same dummy video so that it can be tested. I have tested this in Firefox 3.07 and Internet Explorer 8.06, so it will definitely work in those. Because of the non-standard way that different versions of Internet Explorer handle CSS, my guess is that it won't look right in any version prior to 8. I have to have a cut-off point somewhere, so, for IE, it's version 8...it will save me a lot of headaches. I've put the latest version of the interface in my online storage so that it can be knocked around by anyone that is interested. It is in a Zip file located here. If anyone finds a problem with the way the interface works, let me know. It will be getting populated with the video tutorials as I put them together and then released as a single collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason1025 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Very cool My firs reaction is why do I want to switch to this rig? So It would be nice if there was a button that lead me to a video that sells me on the rig, lets me know why I would take the time to learn this rig when I have invested time in TSM2. Dont get me wrong, my instinct says this rig has its advantages or you folks wouldn't have put all this time into it. It would just be nice if I could see a short infomercial style video illustrating why I want to learn this rig over the next. I know its a lot to ask for but those kinds of things get me excited about the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Very cool My firs reaction is why do I want to switch to this rig? So It would be nice if there was a button that lead me to a video that sells me on the rig, lets me know why I would take the time to learn this rig when I have invested time in TSM2. Dont get me wrong, my instinct says this rig has its advantages or you folks wouldn't have put all this time into it. It would just be nice if I could see a short infomercial style video illustrating why I want to learn this rig over the next. I know its a lot to ask for but those kinds of things get me excited about the product. Jason, I'll be interested in the reply. It could well be that what you seek is already available (unless it's been rendered outdated) and you'll be directed to the wiki ~or~ the reply might well be 'if you're happy with TSM2, stay with it'. All of the people who contributed to put the Squetch rig together worked very very very hard to do so (a triple very!) and I guess their vision was to develop the ultimate rig (and maybe they have!). I do not wish to belittle their efforts or the Squetch rig in any way and I pray I do not get flamed for this message LOL! I believe that the following concerns are valid of any software and/or just my personal perks... okay? I talk of past problems I had with it, possible problems due to the escalating complexity I last saw and finally, the many good and great aspects of the Squetch rig. Also, be advised that although I put half a year into attempting to migrate to the Squetch rig, that was a year ago and I am not 'up' on the current state of the rig. That said... Two reasons 'not' to switch (for myself anyway) 'used' to be that (1) the 'adjust compensates' part of the installation (over 100 multiple and complex steps) made the installation too much work (I'll get disagreement on this one from many) and, (2) that the rig was never stabilized at any point -- that is to say, there was no 'stable' version (like version 1.0) and, new/improved feature updates came out almost every week and there was usually no way to apply these short of a complete re-install (I did this for half a year never once completing an install before a new version I wanted came out and I was completely redoing the installs of eight characters). Some more reasons ''''''might be'''''' (and this is in general of any software) that there are now too many features and, because of this, it takes up too much memory (i.e. can you put 8 characters in a scene and still be able to function in AM). Also, in many cases, due to the complexity and sheer number or features and the inability to adequately test everything... the level of stability is low (more bugs), the frequency of updates is high and the learning curve is steep plus the ability to keep documentation/tuts up to date goes beyond support resources. Again, possible situations for any software. I have no reason to believe that the Squetch rig suffers from any of these except that the number of features was approaching the 'all things for all people' level when I last looked. I'm hoping that all these situations have been rectified and/or do not exist because... I would probably switch. Why? Because there are 'many' valid reasons to consider switching... of the top of my head and in no particular order: 1. the rig is much more solid to work with then TSM2 2. it is a very advanced rig with lots of really helpful bells and whistles (i.e. the hand thing, better and more flexible squash and stretch, and more I can't remember right now) 3. it comes with a very advanced face rig (which I currently use with the TSM2 rig right now) 4. aside from the aforementioned 'adjust compensates' it has a very advanced and easy install process which, over all, would take about the same time as TSM2 (at least the way I use TSM2) 5. it has a seamless fk to ik transition 6. if aforementioned pitfalls have been avoided -- it is a far better rig than TSM2 7. it is the official rig of AM and it is the future I hope this helps (and I pray does not offend anyone). Rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Very cool My firs reaction is why do I want to switch to this rig? So It would be nice if there was a button that lead me to a video that sells me on the rig, lets me know why I would take the time to learn this rig when I have invested time in TSM2. Dont get me wrong, my instinct says this rig has its advantages or you folks wouldn't have put all this time into it. It would just be nice if I could see a short infomercial style video illustrating why I want to learn this rig over the next. I know its a lot to ask for but those kinds of things get me excited about the product. I'm not trying to sell anyone on switching rigs, I'm trying to provide information on the use and installation of the Squetch Rig. I don't care what rig anyone uses, there are several good rigs currently available, the Lite Rig, 2009 Rig, TSM2, Barry Zundel's rig, Jeff Lew's rig, the S.U.R.E. rig, etc. This tutorial (when it is finished) is meant to give as close to a complete guide as possible for the Squetch Rig. It's going to show how to use every control when animating (that's what the "Animating" section of the tutorial is for) and how to install and set up the rig (that's what the "Installation" section is for)...it should make the rig more accessible. In my mind, the Squetch Rig is not a product, since it's free...all the work on the rig and tutorials have been donated to the community by everyone involved. I realize that "product" doesn't necessarily mean something that costs money, but I think it might be confusing to some people if that word is used...reading with translation software is one possible scenario. Two reasons 'not' to switch (for myself anyway) 'used' to be that (1) the 'adjust compensates' part of the installation (over 100 multiple and complex steps) made the installation too much work (I'll get disagreement on this one from many) A video tutorial on the process (which is going to be part of this), might help clear this up. For some, it's going to be a deal-breaker and I understand that. All of the other rigs I mentioned don't require the resetting of compensates, so there are other options. I'm not a programmer, so there isn't an installer for the Squetch Rig that will automatically reset the compensates like TSM2. Quite a few of them were eliminated using Expressions, but there are a lot of places where the design of the rig requires the compensates. (2) that the rig was never stabilized at any point -- that is to say, there was no 'stable' version (like version 1.0) and, new/improved feature updates came out almost every week and there was usually no way to apply these short of a complete re-install (I did this for half a year never once completing an install before a new version I wanted came out and I was completely redoing the installs of eight characters). Every time there was a bug fix or improvement, I used to release it immediately. There have been quite a few updates made since the last posted release. I have made them available to those wanting to use them, but I have been holding out on a posted release until I get the tutorial finished. Some more reasons ''''''might be'''''' (and this is in general of any software) that there are now too many features and, because of this, it takes up too much memory (i.e. can you put 8 characters in a scene and still be able to function in AM). Also, in many cases, due to the complexity and sheer number or features and the inability to adequately test everything... the level of stability is low (more bugs), the frequency of updates is high and the learning curve is steep plus the ability to keep documentation/tuts up to date goes beyond support resources. Again, possible situations for any software. I have no reason to believe that the Squetch rig suffers from any of these except that the number of features was approaching the 'all things for all people' level when I last looked. The Squetch Rig was used in TWO...I don't know of any time that the rig was the cause of a slowdown. Proxy versions of the characters and sets were built to improve the speed of animating, but those proxies had the same rigs in them...although the muscle-based poses (for the characters that didn't have bone rigged faces) were not transferred. The tutorials were being outpaced by the updates, so they were outdated as they were finished in the past. That's one of the reasons I have waited so long to put this next set of tutorials together...I think it's going to be stable for quite a while. I hope this helps (and I pray does not offend anyone). I can only speak for myself, but I have never been offended by anything you've posted, Rusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason1025 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thanks for the info folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I can only speak for myself, but I have never been offended by anything you've posted, Rusty. Oh yeah... well how 'bout this! 8-0 Seriously I can't wait to see the tut you are working on. When that's done we need to tie you and robcat's hands behind your backs so you can't be tempted to tinker. :-) The Squetch Rig was used in TWO...I don't know of any time that the rig was the cause of a slowdown. Proxy versions of the characters and sets were built to improve the speed of animating, but those proxies had the same rigs in them...although the muscle-based poses (for the characters that didn't have bone rigged faces) were not transferred. So then... tell me truly, not much has been added to the rig that was used back then in TWO? I last looked at the Squetch about a year ago I think and unless you started backing out features instead of adding more, a whole lot has been added. That does not mean that it will slow things down at all, but it is a legitimate concern given the number of features added. [[Edit: Actually it absolutely does mean that it will make things slower... but, will it be noticeable?]] I don't remember seeing a 'lite' version of the rig for low res proxies (that is not a feature request BTW, but that would be neat)? I've always been excited about the Squetch rig (okay, and a little nervous too). Cheers, Rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 The Squetch Rig was used in TWO...I don't know of any time that the rig was the cause of a slowdown. Proxy versions of the characters and sets were built to improve the speed of animating, but those proxies had the same rigs in them...although the muscle-based poses (for the characters that didn't have bone rigged faces) were not transferred. So then... tell me truly, not much has been added to the rig that was used back then in TWO? I last looked at the Squetch about a year ago I think and unless you started backing out features instead of adding more, a whole lot has been added. That does not mean that it will slow things down at all, but it is a legitimate concern given the number of features added. [[Edit: Actually it absolutely does mean that it will make things slower... but, will it be noticeable?]] I don't remember seeing a 'lite' version of the rig for low res proxies (that is not a feature request BTW, but that would be neat)? To be fair, there have been additions and modifications since TWO, but I don't think any of it would slow down response...I haven't tested it, so there is a possibility that I'm wrong. I'll post a version of Squetchy Sam that is up to date soon so that anyone that wants to stress test him will be able. There wasn't a need for a lesser rig, but the character splineage was cut down to only what was necessary for the TWO proxy models...the TinWoodman and TinGirl proxies could do anything the actual models could do except for any muscle-based poses (since the CP numbers changed, those Poses would not have transferred from the proxy to the actual model). So, things like puffing out the cheeks would have to be done on the actual model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Shelton Posted March 27, 2009 *A:M User* Share Posted March 27, 2009 David sent me the new rig a couple of weeks ago and within a day I had the rig in place and sent it to David to review. Once he sent it back the character is moving. I am tweaking the mesh now to help smooth out the rough edges and I think this is the hardest part of any rig. (cleanup) I still have quite a few things left to do, with face poses etc, but I used the squetch rig on one project and installed and adjusted the compensates and loved the rig. I have been waiting quietly for the tutorails so I wont have to bother David for help. While I was installing the rig David sent me an update on one pose. It was the easiest thing I have done with the rig. Simply delete the bad one and copied in the new one. What I loved most about the rig is all the poses are setup and waiting for you to adjust your model to the rig. I will continue to use the rig as it gives you the ability to go as complex as you want or as simple as you want. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Shelton Posted March 27, 2009 *A:M User* Share Posted March 27, 2009 David I like the interface. Wow you have put a lot of work into this and it shows. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 David I like the interface. Wow you have put a lot of work into this and it shows. Steve Thanks, Steve. I did the CSS, HTML and rendered the buttons, Sebastian Pfeifer came up with the color scheme, font selection, layout and made the header image...he was extremely patient and helpful. It came out a lot better than the original version I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted March 27, 2009 Admin Share Posted March 27, 2009 Very nice interface David. I love the simplicity of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animus Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Very cool My firs reaction is why do I want to switch to this rig? So It would be nice if there was a button that lead me to a video that sells me on the rig, lets me know why I would take the time to learn this rig when I have invested time in TSM2. Dont get me wrong, my instinct says this rig has its advantages or you folks wouldn't have put all this time into it. It would just be nice if I could see a short infomercial style video illustrating why I want to learn this rig over the next. I know its a lot to ask for but those kinds of things get me excited about the product. The Squetch rig is versatile. And to add to the reasons mentioned before, you have seamless IkFk switching that TSM2 doesn't have. Not only arms, legs, also torso, every switch actually. Squetch rig is so much "modern". Michel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason1025 Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Very cool My firs reaction is why do I want to switch to this rig? So It would be nice if there was a button that lead me to a video that sells me on the rig, lets me know why I would take the time to learn this rig when I have invested time in TSM2. Dont get me wrong, my instinct says this rig has its advantages or you folks wouldn't have put all this time into it. It would just be nice if I could see a short infomercial style video illustrating why I want to learn this rig over the next. I know its a lot to ask for but those kinds of things get me excited about the product. The Squetch rig is versatile. And to add to the reasons mentioned before, you have seamless IkFk switching that TSM2 doesn't have. Not only arms, legs, also torso, every switch actually. Squetch rig is so much "modern". Michel thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomvuho Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Say but where take directly video tutorials themselves? When I press on scenes of the references to tutorials. beside me nothing be not loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Say but where take directly video tutorials themselves? When I press on scenes of the references to tutorials. beside me nothing be not loaded. This is just the interface, the video you go to using the links is just a place holder for where the videos will be when it is finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomvuho Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Thank you! Shall Anxiously wait the most quick close-down on video lesson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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